Flig Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 So your argument seems to be, because he has an emotionless demeanor, he can't be evil, no matter how many atrocious acts he commits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisnoGarySnow Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Roose is a sociopathic, ruthless bastard. He was one of the main movers in the destruction of the Stark house, his liege lords he pledged his fealty to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 OP: Roose murdered a new husband just because he wanted his wife; then raped the wife and cut her brother's tongue out so "he wouldn't trouble Lord Rickard with stories". If that's not evil, then we have very different understanding of that adjective. What else must he do to deserve it, sponsor a troupe of mimes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 When I say we know Ned never trusted the Roose it's because it says it flat out in the books.Eddard Stark had never had any reason to complain of the Lord of the Dreadfort, so far as Jon knew, but even so he had never trusted him, with his whispery voice and his pale, pale eyes. Honestly this seems like a retcon because in the early books neither Robb nor Catelyn were aware of this at all. Would Robb have given command of the foot to Rosse if he knew Ned didn't trust him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OberynBlackfyre Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 I myself am not saying he isn't evil. I hate him, he is just one of the most interesting characters to me within the books. While other peoples lay out their plans and personalities, he rarely gives anything away except cruelty. It's like he WANTS people to be afraid of him, so that's what makes me think this whole "evil" behind him is just a ploy in control so people don't question him. I mean the guy is a mixture of LF, Tywin, and Ramsay basically. I just wanted to look at him from different POV's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Isnt roose the result of mating between Others and Humans?Have you noticed how many times his eyes are described as inhumanly blue and cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisnoGarySnow Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 if rape was evil, I am almost sure half the lords in the realm and all the Iron Born are "evil".Are you seriously implying that because rape is common, that it's not an evil act? I got to say that's the first thing on this boards that has genuinely offended me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer is Ending Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Honestly this seems like a retcon because in the early books neither Robb nor Catelyn were aware of this at all. Would Robb have given command of the foot to Rosse if he knew Ned didn't trust him?Robb does quite a few things Ned wouldn't have done not the least of which is sending Theon home when Ned gave direct orders to keep him close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Titan's Legitimate Son Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Roose is clearly not "morally ambigious", he is a very dark grey in a family where Joffrey would be considered light grey to white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OberynBlackfyre Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Are you seriously implying that because rape is common, that it's not an evil act? I got to say that's the first thing on this boards that has genuinely offended me.I never said that at all, I'm simply saying that one act of evil does not make an evil person. I would suggest you end your feeling of offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TristanGreyjoy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 In my mind what sets asoiaf apart from other fantasy is that there arent good guys and there arent evil guys. Every character has "good" qualities and "evil" qualities. Even Cersei has redeemable qualities (she loves her children, that and her cheekbones). So no Roose is not evil. He has done some bad things but in order to play the game of thrones you sacrifice morality to some extent, and i honestly believe that only LF, Varys, and Illyrio can even compete with him in the game. Boltons kill Starks. Its been this way for hundreds of years. Daynes and Oakhearts have a similar relationship and no one condemns one as "evil". If you can call Roose evil why not Tyrion? Roose never put Robb Stark into a bowl of soup for all of flea bottom to enjoy! And Roose did his killing like a fucking northman, he stabbed robb through the heart and heard his last words. Tyrion sent Bronn to do his killing (in this instance) and Roose did it himself. Everyone in this series is good and evil at the same time and that is why to me it is so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OberynBlackfyre Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 In my mind what sets asoiaf apart from other fantasy is that there arent good guys and there arent evil guys. Every character has "good" qualities and "evil" qualities. Even Cersei has redeemable qualities (she loves her children, that and her cheekbones). So no Roose is not evil. He has done some bad things but in order to play the game of thrones you sacrifice morality to some extent, and i honestly believe that only LF, Varys, and Illyrio can even compete with him in the game. Boltons kill Starks. Its been this way for hundreds of years. Daynes and Oakhearts have a similar relationship and no one condemns one as "evil". If you can call Roose evil why not Tyrion? Roose never put Robb Stark into a bowl of soup for all of flea bottom to enjoy! And Roose did his killing like a fucking northman, he stabbed robb through the heart and heard his last words. Tyrion sent Bronn to do his killing (in this instance) and Roose did it himself. Everyone in this series is good and evil at the same time and that is why to me it is so great.THANK YOU! I am not trying to say he is pearly white, but I wanted to look at him from the context/theme of the series, that being that each character is morally grey. Plus you actually understand the fact that Boltons and Starks have been at it for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 In my mind what sets asoiaf apart from other fantasy is that there arent good guys and there arent evil guys. Please, not this again. I am so tired of this claim which is just not true at all. There are quite a few characters who are absolutely blatant villains and as evil as they come. Ramsay, Gregor, Vargo, the Astapor slavers who train the Unsullied. The likes of Roose and Tywin are almost as bad. On the other side we have Brienne, who's as heroic and morally pure as they come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TristanGreyjoy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 THANK YOU! I am not trying to say he is pearly white, but I wanted to look at him from the context/theme of the series, that being that each character is morally grey. Plus you actually understand the fact that Boltons and Starks have been at it for years.Exactly, and so have the Freys and Tullys, the Tyrells and Florents, Lannisters and Reynes this happens all over Westeros. Obviously if you are ruling over someone their pride kicks in at some point and thus a rebellious bannermen is born, and this is remembered after generations and generations, and this would have to be even more relevant in the north (the north remembers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I never said that at all, I'm simply saying that one act of evil does not make an evil person. I would suggest you end your feeling of offense.Here, let me quote one of your our earlier posts to refresh your memory on this...if rape was evil, I am almost sure half the lords in the realm and all the Iron Born are "evil".This may be a language issue, but when you say "if rape was evil", you can't be surprised if people infer you think rape isn't evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I never said that at all, I'm simply saying that one act of evil does not make an evil person. I would suggest you end your feeling of offense.All it takes is one evil act to be considered evil by most people. Think about recent events in our nation. We aren't talking about cursing our your parents when they won't let you get the car for the weekend, we are talking about sexual assaulting people. Think about what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TristanGreyjoy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Please, not this again. I am so tired of this claim which is just not true at all. There are quite a few characters who are absolutely blatant villains and as evil as they come. Ramsay, Gregor, Vargo, the Astapor slavers who train the Unsullied. The likes of Roose and Tywin are almost as bad. On the other side we have Brienne, who's as heroic and morally pure as they come.As i recall when the Brave Companions came on Jaime and Brienne she was trying to drown him. That is oathbreaking and doesnt sound morally pure at all. Other than Brienne none of the characters you named were povs so you cant really know their intentions unless you know what these characters are thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OberynBlackfyre Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 All it takes is one evil act to be considered evil by most people. Think about recent events in our nation. We aren't talking about cursing our your parents when they won't let you get the car for the weekend, we are talking about sexual assaulting people. Think about what you said.i REALIZE this, however we are also talking about a time period that is NOT our own. Of course rape is evil, and in this time period if someone were to commit a rape they would have to carry it around as a mark of shame for the rest of their lives....however we, reading the books, are taken to a time to where good men did bad things at times. No, raping one person does not make you an evil person, though it is an evil act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 As i recall when the Brave Companions came on Jaime and Brienne she was trying to drown him. That is oathbreaking and doesnt sound morally pure at all. Other than Brienne none of the characters you named were povs so you cant really know their intentions unless you know what these characters are thinking.Are you seriously arguing that the characters mentioned by David Selig are morally grey? Really? I couldn't disagree more. Yeah, the vast majority of characters are grey, but I think people just have to stop banging on about how 'every character is grey' because it simply isn't true. The vast majority of characters are indeed grey, same as in our world. At the same time, there are truly good characters, truly bad characters, and sick sadistic psychos; again, exactly like in our world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OberynBlackfyre Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Here, let me quote one of your our earlier posts to refresh your memory on this...This may be a language issue, but when you say "if rape was evil", you can't be surprised if people infer you think rape isn't evil.you're correct, I should have said "if raping someone made you an evil person" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.