The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones - Ned Stark Legacy Figure
Game of Thrones - Ned Stark Legacy Figure
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

The impulsive Cat (spoilers on book three)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
77 replies to this topic

#1 Hellswung

Hellswung

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:51 AM

I am half way through book three. I am at the part where Karstark killed the two Lannisters and Robb was about to kill lord Karstark.

I would just like to say how much I hate Catelyn. First Tyrion, then Jaime Lannister. These spun of the moment decisions have really helped to put Ned and Robb in their graves. Great Job Cat, them Lannisters couldn't have done it without you.

#2 RumHam

RumHam

    Commoner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,070 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:57 AM

If you feel like doing some reading about the Tyrion thing: http://asoiaf.wester..._hl__catnapping

Spoiler


ETA spoiler tags, my bad I forgot you weren't done with the third book. Be careful browsing this forum if you don't want to encounter spoilers.

Edited by RumHam, 21 September 2013 - 08:50 AM.


#3 Sordelor

Sordelor

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,294 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:01 AM

Ironically that you warn us for spoilers untill asos while in this forum spoilers till adwd are allowed...

#4 Tyrion's Third Wife

Tyrion's Third Wife

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 105 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:05 AM

I hate Cat. I hate future Cat, in all her ... incarnations.


I hate Cat.

#5 Hellswung

Hellswung

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:05 AM

If you feel like doing some reading about the Tyrion thing: http://asoiaf.wester..._hl__catnapping

I'm not really sure how I feel about her releasing Jamie, but Tywin and Walder were at least considering the Red Wedding before Jamie got out.



As for Red Wedding, I didn't say she is the main reason it happened, I am only saying she helped. Her actions sent the Karstark away, which wouldn't have happened if she didn't release Jaime.

What the hell was she thinking anyways? They just lost Winterfell, a huge blow to the moral of the Northmen, and I just have to say there is no better time to release Jaime than then? A huge moral boost huh?

#6 Arya kiddin'

Arya kiddin'

    Needle's Sheath

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,522 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:05 AM

I am half way through book three. I am at the part where Karstark killed the two Lannisters and Robb was about to kill lord Karstark.

I would just like to say how much I hate Catelyn. First Tyrion, then Jaime Lannister. These spun of the moment decisions have really helped to put Ned and Robb in their graves. Great Job Cat, them Lannisters couldn't have done it without you.


There is way too much of Cat hate on this forum. /tantrum.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':tantrum:' />

Are you suggesting that Cat's decisions were not justified? I would atleast like to hear your arguments for that.

#7 Sansa_Stark

Sansa_Stark

    blank

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,168 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:08 AM

Be careful OP. On this board disliking Cat means you're an idiot with a 3rd grade reading comprehension. According to her defenders, there are no legitimate reasons for disliking her and that you are objectively wring.

#8 Twist

Twist

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 157 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:10 AM

It's not all cat's fault. If robb had listened to her he wouldn't have sent theon to balon greyjoy, so winterfell wouldn't have been attacked, they wouldn't believe bran and rickon were dead, so robb would never have married jeyne, so the red wedding wouldn't have happened. As for Ned, I'm sure she tried to talk him out of accepting the job as Robert's hand.

#9 Arya kiddin'

Arya kiddin'

    Needle's Sheath

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,522 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:11 AM

Be careful OP. On this board disliking Cat means you're an idiot with a 3rd grade reading comprehension. According to her defenders, there are no legitimate reasons for disliking her and that you are objectively wring.


Hasty generalizations will get us nowhere. I'm interested in the arguments that the OP will present against Cat.

#10 PatrickStormborn

PatrickStormborn

    Slayer of Dany Haters

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,237 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:12 AM

Jaime was a useless prisoner - Tywin's tactics did not change at all following his capture. Sansa and Arya, on the other hand, were very valuable, as shown by Tyrion's marriage to Sansa.

Oh, and most importantly? The Red Wedding still would have happened if Jaime was a prisoner. Think about it: following the Red Wedding, the Lannisters would hold enough valuable hostages to make a trade for Jaime.

#11 Sordelor

Sordelor

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,294 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:13 AM

I don't hated her when she was Cat, but I do hate Lady Stonheart.

#12 Blueberry Stark

Blueberry Stark

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 819 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:13 AM

You should read the catnapping discussion that RumHam provided the link for. There's a lot of good debate both for and against Cat's taking Tyrion.

Insofar as releasing Jaime is concerned, I don't understand how anyone could "hate" Cat for letting him go. The text makes it pretty obvious that Cat is thinking like a grief stricken mom rather than a master war strategist at this point, understandably. Look at the situation from the point of view of a wife and mother, which I have no problem doing as I am a wife and mother. Her husband is dead, her daughter is a hostage of her worst enemies, her other daughter is unaccounted for, and her two youngest sons are dead as far as she knows. What decent mother wouldn't let Jaime go if she thought for a second that it would possibly have her beloved daughter(s) returned to her? I've always felt that Robb was being an obstinate ass by not trading Jaime for Sansa in the first place. He could have used Sansa, the beautiful, eldest Stark daughter and sister to the King in the North, to broker a marriage alliance with a powerful family in order to further his war effort. The problem with the way that Cat releases Jaime, with only Brienne to guard and protect him, makes it very unlikely that he'll actually arrive safely in KL. It was a mistake in the way that it was carried out, but a sympathetic and understandable mistake. As a mom, I can promise you that most mothers would release Jaime if they thought that it would save their children.

Edited by Blueberry Stark, 21 September 2013 - 08:16 AM.


#13 RumHam

RumHam

    Commoner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,070 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:14 AM

Think about it: following the Red Wedding, the Lannisters would hold enough valuable hostages to make a trade for Jaime.


If the Blackfish didn't kill him in a fit of anger....

#14 PatrickStormborn

PatrickStormborn

    Slayer of Dany Haters

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,237 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:15 AM

If the Blackfish didn't kill him in a fit of anger....


Now THAT would be a stupid move, and far more impulsive than anything Cat has done. It would also mean the death of Cat(*) or Edmure.

(*) Remember that the original plan was to keep Catelyn as a prisoner following the Red Wedding. I can't imagine the Blackfish putting her life in danger by killing Jaime.

#15 RumHam

RumHam

    Commoner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,070 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:18 AM

Now THAT would be a stupid move, and far more impulsive than anything Cat has done. It would also mean the death of Cat(*) or Edmure.

(*) Remember that the original plan was to keep Catelyn as a prisoner following the Red Wedding. I can't imagine the Blackfish putting her life in danger by killing Jaime.


True, but if it were me I don't think logic would even factor into it. I'd be so pissed.

#16 Hellswung

Hellswung

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:18 AM

Here is my argument for Tyrion

Tyrion is the LEAST important member of the Lannisters. What's the point of capturing him? When you want to strike a blow against your enemy, you aim for the head or you bid your time.

Capturing Tyrion only served to escalate a situation that is already on the brink of war. Yeah, I read the article on Catnapping, sadly I don't agree. She was the reason Tywin started massing a host at Casterly Rock.

She provoked Jaime Lannister's campaign, flying the Lannister banners.

Yes, there are other powers at work in the realm, but SHE NEEDS NOT CAST THE FIRST STONE. There is a reason so many here hates Cat, and it is not because of poor reading skills.

So I challenge anyone who defends her kidnaping of Tyrion with this question,
What's the worst would happen if she had let Tyrion go?

#17 Hellswung

Hellswung

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:24 AM

What decent mother wouldn't let Jaime go if she thought for a second that it would possibly have her beloved daughter(s) returned to her?


There is only one reason. Jaime is the bargaining chip that guarantees her daughters' safety. Letting go this one valuable asset is dumb at best. (Of course we all know Tywin had designs for Sansa, this is not avaiable knowledge as far as Cat is concerned)

On top of that, SHE IS MOTHER TO THE KING. The Northmen joint swords and died for the Stark cause, don't you think some of them ought to feel emotionally affronted by this selfish action?

Yes, selfish. Because when someone put their needs in front of others when others needs are equally important, it is selfish. That is no way a royal family who wish to keep their reign would act.



#18 Blueberry Stark

Blueberry Stark

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 819 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:26 AM

Here is my argument for Tyrion

Tyrion is the LEAST important member of the Lannisters. What's the point of capturing him? When you want to strike a blow against your enemy, you aim for the head or you bid your time.

Capturing Tyrion only served to escalate a situation that is already on the brink of war. Yeah, I read the article on Catnapping, sadly I don't agree. She was the reason Tywin started massing a host at Casterly Rock.

She provoked Jaime Lannister's campaign, flying the Lannister banners.

Yes, there are other powers at work in the realm, but SHE NEEDS NOT CAST THE FIRST STONE. There is a reason so many here hates Cat, and it is not because of poor reading skills.

So I challenge anyone who defends her kidnaping of Tyrion with this question,
What's the worst would happen if she had let Tyrion go?


When did anyone suggest that people hate Cat because of poor reading skills?

My thinking with the kidnapping of Tyrion is more along the lines of a mother. She truly thought that Tyrion had tried to kill her son. Obviously, someone was trying to kill Bran. The only people who Cat has any reason to suspect are Lannisters. Of course it's debatable whether or not kidnapping Tyrion is a good idea, but once again mistake or not it is understandable to me. If her idiot of a sister hadn' t allowed Tyrion to talk/scheme his way out of captivity, then Cat would have still held Tyrion. Perhaps having Tyrion as a hostage would have stopped Joffrey from killing Ned, but of course that is quite doubtful because Joff is crazy and no fan of Tyrion.

#19 Hellswung

Hellswung

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:27 AM

Jaime was a useless prisoner - Tywin's tactics did not change at all following his capture. Sansa and Arya, on the other hand, were very valuable, as shown by Tyrion's marriage to Sansa.

Oh, and most importantly? The Red Wedding still would have happened if Jaime was a prisoner. Think about it: following the Red Wedding, the Lannisters would hold enough valuable hostages to make a trade for Jaime.


Like I said, Cat is not the main cause, but she sure helped it.

The Karstarks wouldn't have left, for starters.


There are other stupid things Robb did, but I am talking about Cat's folly.

#20 Blueberry Stark

Blueberry Stark

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 819 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:34 AM

There is only one reason. Jaime is the bargaining chip that guarantees her daughters' safety. Letting go this one valuable asset is dumb at best. (Of course we all know Tywin had designs for Sansa, this is not avaiable knowledge as far as Cat is concerned)

On top of that, SHE IS MOTHER TO THE KING. The Northmen joint swords and died for the Stark cause, don't you think some of them ought to feel emotionally affronted by this selfish action?

Yes, selfish. Because when someone put their needs in front of others when others needs are equally important, it is selfish. That is no way a royal family who wish to keep their reign would act.


This is one of my pet peeves when debating with anyone. You have chosen one portion of my response to address, ignoring the rest of what I have actually said.

If they had traded Jaime for Sansa, they could have made a useful marriage alliance. Although Cat is mother to the King, she did not advise him to declare himself king. The entire point of challenging the Lannisters was to protect and save their family: Ned, the girls, and the Tullys in the Riverlands. As I already admitted, her "selfish" act is understandable because Cat is first and foremost a grieving wife and mother, not some cold-blooded royal wannabe with aspirations of reigning as Queen Regent in the North. I admitted that she made a mistake, but I maintain that it was understandable, sympathetic, and partially the result of Robb's obstinance in not making the trade. See how I responded to your entire post?