RyuMaster Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Hi, I just do not understand the motive behind Yorens last actions. Why did not he opened the gates? The Lannisters would clearly see that he is the Night Watch, with bunch of children, and would not hurt anyone. Wouldnt't they? And here we have Yoren arranging suicidal defence against ~200(!!) men... Later I have this explanation:Gendry frowned. “Knights and lordlings, they take each other captive and pay ransoms, but they don’t care if the likes of you yield or not.” He turned to Arya. “What else did you see?” Which means, knights were going to slaughter everyone inside - but why? Wouldn't they care that Yoren is a Black Watch, or I am just to naive too think, that they will believe Yoren, only because he had a Black Cloak? But, anyway, it would be obvious from those children and chained folks he around Yoren, that he clearly was heading to the Wall with his captives, and was not part of the village. He just literally was shouting, that he was the part of the Watch. Besides, there is not way the queens order to capture the kings bastard could rich those parts of the land yet. I just don't get it. It was obvious, that if we wouldn't open the gates, all are dead. ? It was the gold cloaks whom were after thebastard boy, but those in the village couldn't know a damn thing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengwin7 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I just read past that part a few days ago. (I'm around page 400/969 in my read through CoK) I think we have to consider that Yoren knows who Arya is.If he opens the gate, at best... the attacking knights are going to take everybody for questioning - which does not help Arya's cause (which Yoren knows of).And, I think it is established from GoT that the Mountain is in this area... and the Mountain doesn't necessarily play by the rules.He kills all. From a story point of view, I think GRRM used the Night's Watch to get Arya out of King's Landing - but from there, he wanted her to become a "lone wolf" ;) as fast as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyuMaster Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Yes, though about that, but what did he hoped to accomplish by not letting 200 man in? Did he seriously though he could win? It seems like he did, but he wasn't stupid or something. I just feel there is something more to this. I am very loyal to the author, he has absolutely logical motives for every of the character, and when I fail to understand one, its likely is my fault, I don't want to think that Yoren was a plot device. Well, I considered the possibility, that Yoren wanted to protect Arya and kings bastard son. Then, why did he? Night Watch stays out of the realm politics. He, basically, sacrificed all the Night Watch newcomers for the sake of those two. That strikes me odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengwin7 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 We also have to realize - that back in that day... they didn't have the full information we do (via internet, phone, books). If Yoren says "I'm from the Wall"... would somebody need to believe them? Just because he's wearing "the black"?And, with Yoren being a traveling group... if they are killed, it's not like there is police of hidden cameras to bring the murderers to justice. We might assume that somebody would allow the Night's Watch to go free... but I don't think that's the case here.And considering what happens in the next chapter with Arya & pals... I think it's safe to say that Yoren made the right call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Yoren had been trying to flee a group from KL searching for Gendry. Should that group catch him, Gendry would be as good as dead. Then another group shows up, in the name of the king, or, in other words, in the name of the Lannisters. The same Lannisters who've been trying to get to Gendry, and who wouldn't mind getting their hands on Arya.Yoren has also seen the country side.. He knows there has been fighting, and he knows, and IIRC also admits one point, that you cannot predict if anyone is friend or foe, even if you're from the Night's Watch. There are those who don't care that the NW takes no part. Lorch, Clegane and those like them don't play by the rules. If they had, the countryside of the Riverlands would have been spared a lot more. Also, I suspect that Yoren strongly believed they had an advantage, being inside of the walls. I think he was hoping that by daybreak, the Lannister men were gone, and he could make a try to stay ahead of them, just as he did with the Gold Cloaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyuMaster Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Well, likely so. The more I think about... Actually Yoren knew about that passage leading outside, so he had that back-up plan for running if everything goes wrong. I am still not sure, why did he accept the fight, but maybe there wasn't 200 men after all, that was Arrya speculation, and Yoren really had a hope to defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I think no matter what Yoren did - surrender or fight - there was only going to be slaughter. So he chose to go down fighting. Arya and others were able to get away in the ensuing confusion :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyuMaster Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 And what if Tyrion would be in place of the Yoren? (Assuming Tyrion would be a Night Watch member). I see no slaughter at all :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robb stark of the north Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 And what if Tyrion would be in place of the Yoren? (Assuming Tyrion would be a Night Watch member). I see no slaughter at all :cool4: yes but only if Tyrion was recognised. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banner Without Brothers Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 And what if Tyrion would be in place of the Yoren? (Assuming Tyrion would be a Night Watch member). I see no slaughter at all :cool4: If it had been Tyrion he would have probably have talked them all in to joining the nights watch :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTwipz Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I think no matter what Yoren did - surrender or fight - there was only going to be slaughter. So he chose to go down fighting. Arya and others were able to get away in the ensuing confusion :dunno: Pretty agree with this. Yorens was always complaining about the fact that people did not care of the Night's Watch as much as they used to. Even worse with Lannisters' soldiers who were obeying to Cersei's order. And everyone know how Cersei reacts. So he chose the fighting with the chance for Gendry and Arya to run away through the mess brought by the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxJ Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 The men who attacked them were Amory Lorch's who was Tywin Lannister's guy like Gregor Clegane (so they didn't have commands from Cersei, but Tywin). No matter what Yoren had decided, I'm pretty sure they would've killed everyone anyway because I believe that's what Tywin send them out to do; to burn everything and kill everyone (like Tywin didn't mind killing Elia's babies, why would he mind killing peasants and such). This was probably why the holdfast and every other village they passed was deserted, because people fled for men like Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane, sent out by Tywin.Yoren probably already suspected that they weren't up to any good, especially after he showed them he was of the Night's Watch and they still wanted to get in. If he had opened the gates, they would've killed them all. This way at least they could fight back, and a few of them got to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlan of Pennytree Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 The Lord Tywin had let his dog loose, and ser Gregor has burned and killed everything in his path, putting all the smallfolk that they could get their hands on to the sword. The Karstarks were doing the same. While traveling up the Kingsroad, they would've heard hundreds of tales of murder, rape and God knows what else from the smallfolk fleeing south, he would've been very foolish indeed to open the gates to any raiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfella25 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yoren had been chewing sour leaf all day and it was late at night when the Lannister's men and Amory Lorch turned up. The group had witnessed many dead bodies, ransacked villages and acts of torture along the way. As XTwipz said above the Nights Watch did not have the same respect in Westeros as they used to. This can be seen by the reception Tyrion gives Allister Thorne when he arrived in Kings Landing. Yoren had also wanted to protect Ayra and Gendry from the Lannister's probably out of loyalty to Benjen and Ned Stark. So loyalty, fear of capture and whatever was in the sour leaf must have drove him to make a stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Well, as to the treatment of Tyrion and Alliser, Tyrion and Alliser already didn't get along in Game. Had it been another black brother who had come to KL, Tyrions reception would have been differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfella25 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Yes that's very true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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