The Fourth Head Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ok- one of the main arguments for why people think Aegon is real is, "why would Varys lie to a dying man?" But if you believe that Kevan is about to die, and will stay dead, then by extension you must surely believe the same with Jon? A very large percentage of the forum believe that Jon Snow will be resurrected in some form- or that he wont die. I think a very small percentage believe he will descend into, and remain in a permanent dead / unconscious state for the rest of the series, whether that be through ice magic, warging through Ghost somehow, being raised as UnJon by the COTF, being saved by Melisandre, or simply, surviving the knife attack and being nursed by...er, Clydas? as the Wildlings NW-men and Queensmen settle their differences around his stricken body. However, everyone seems to assume Kevan is about to die. And will stay dead. And not share Varys story with anyone. Why? Kevan is facing a knife attack. Kevan started to feel cold. Kevan is greviously injured- all identical to Jon's experience. Kevan has a niece who has used Qyburn to resurrect Robert Strong- a man who suffered multiple stab wounds, lethal poison and decapitation. What is to say that Cercei will not discover a near dead, if not already dead Kevan, send him to the best- Qyburn- to "revive" him, and extract a confession as to who killed him which would surely be her number one concern? Surely, this is a perfect way of guaranteeing the Aegon story will be believed? That a private confession to a dying man that Aegon is real would be recited back to those in the Red Keep by the best man qualified to vouch for his identity- Ser Kevan? If Varys had equally "confessed" to Pycelle before killing him- then the same would apply to the other best qualified person in KL to vouch for the Aegon story. We can't assume Varys doesn't want Kevan to talk, because Varys being named the killer really doesn't matter anymore to Varys- he is already in hiding. People struggle with the notion of why Kevan and Pycelle were even targeted. Yes- they were both fairly competent, yes silencing them may help sell the Aegon story, but why not convert them to believers with a trick "confession to a dying man" ruse? I have no doubts at all that Varys knows what Qyburn can achieve. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Probably because Kevan is seen as a much more expendable character then Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Because he is not AAR/Ptwp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clariana Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ok- one of the main arguments for why people think Aegon is real is, "why would Varys lie to a dying man?" But if you believe that Kevan is about to die, and will stay dead, then by extension you must surely believe the same with Jon? A very large percentage of the forum believe that Jon Snow will be resurrected in some form- or that he wont die. I think a very small percentage believe he will descend into, and remain in a permanent dead / unconscious state for the rest of the series, whether that be through ice magic, warging through Ghost somehow, being raised as UnJon by the COTF, being saved by Melisandre, or simply, surviving the knife attack and being nursed by...er, Clydas? as the Wildlings NW-men and Queensmen settle their differences around his stricken body. However, everyone seems to assume Kevan is about to die. And will stay dead. And not share Varys story with anyone. Why? Kevan is facing a knife attack. Kevan started to feel cold. Kevan is greviously injured- all identical to Jon's experience. Kevan has a niece who has used Qyburn to resurrect Robert Strong- a man who suffered multiple stab wounds, lethal poison and decapitation. What is to say that Cercei will not discover a near dead, if not already dead Kevan, send him to the best- Qyburn- to "revive" him, and extract a confession as to who killed him which would surely be her number one concern? Surely, this is a perfect way of guaranteeing the Aegon story will be believed? That a private confession to a dying man that Aegon is real would be recited back to those in the Red Keep by the best man qualified to vouch for his identity- Ser Kevan? If Varys had equally "confessed" to Pycelle before killing him- then the same would apply to the other best qualified person in KL to vouch for the Aegon story. We can't assume Varys doesn't want Kevan to talk, because Varys being named the killer really doesn't matter anymore to Varys- he is already in hiding. People struggle with the notion of why Kevan and Pycelle were even targeted. Yes- they were both fairly competent, yes silencing them may help sell the Aegon story, but why not convert them to believers with a trick "confession to a dying man" ruse? I have no doubts at all that Varys knows what Qyburn can achieve. Any thoughts? Because no-one really cares about Kevan: Lancel is useless, it is a joke to think Cersei would resurrect her uncle, Tommen is a tool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Jon has plot armor, is a warg and has Melisandre with him. He also has allies at the Wall, who would attempt to stop the attack on his life. Kevan is surrounded by dozens?? of children with knives in their hands, and no one to help him. Not a warg, and doesn't have a Resurrector handy....And, I'm not sure of how Qyburn works with bodies. But I think Gregor was still alive when he was 'working' on him. I don't think Qyburn can resurrect the dead. And Kevan was an epilogue/prologue POV, doesn't usually end well :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Probably because Kevan is seen as a much more expendable character then Jon. I would even go so far as to say it is MORE plausible, in universe, that Kevan will be resurrected than Jon, and that he stands a very good chance. Time to throw away the blinkers I think and consider the very real possibility that Kevan will live, and that Varys was still lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Because no-one really cares about Kevan: Lancel is useless, it is a joke to think Cersei would resurrect her uncle, Tommen is a tool... Untrue! I for one cares very much about Kevan. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amethyst Empress Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Tywin was killed the same way and died fairly quickly,so Kevan is defenately dead...Jon may not have been stabbed in vital organs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Kevan, before he died, was in Cersei's way. I wouldn't put it past her to just think "Oh, how convenient that he's dead" and leave him dead, even if she did think Qyburn could revive him. Possibly, as an added bonus, she might falsely accuse somebody else she wants out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebastardfromthenorth Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Because George is cruel :bawl: Everyone wanted to see the lannister's collapse anyway. Well most people..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Because no-one really cares about Kevan: Lancel is useless, it is a joke to think Cersei would resurrect her uncle, Tommen is a tool... Don't you see the implication though? That varys confessed to Kevan in "confidence" that he believes and is supporting Aegon, and confesses the baby swap story making Aegon more believable, only for Kevan to live and share that information? Would this have massive implications with regards to the (F)Aegon theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amethyst Empress Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Kevan, before he died, was in Cersei's way. I wouldn't put it past her to just think "Oh, how convenient that he's dead" and leave him dead, even if she did think Qyburn could revive him. Possibly, as an added bonus, she might falsely accuse somebody else she wants out of the way. She's going to blame Tyrion,I guarantee it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Jon has plot armor, is a warg and has Melisandre with him. He also has allies at the Wall, who would attempt to stop the attack on his life. Kevan is surrounded by dozens?? of children with knives in their hands, and no one to help him. Not a warg, and doesn't have a Resurrector handy....And, I'm not sure of how Qyburn works with bodies. But I think Gregor was still alive when he was 'working' on him. I don't think Qyburn can resurrect the dead. And Kevan was an epilogue/prologue POV, doesn't usually end well :) Jon has plot armour is not a reason- didn't Ned? Didn't Robb? Melisandre cannot ressurect him whilst Castle Black tears itself asunder around them. Jon is just as far gone as Kevan. greviously injured, both, arguably still consious, both surrounded by assassins, boith unable to defend themselves. To argue that Jon is more likely to be saved is a nonsense. Kevan is in a more stable environment. We have no evidence to assume Kevan will be in a worse condition if he were discovered and sent to Qyburn than Gregor was. We don't know that dying puts an end to any hopes of resurrection, but seeing as though Gregor has no head and doesn't need to eat, we can safely assume Qyburn's powers are considerable. We know Cercei trusts him. We know Cersei is paranoid and would want to know who killed him- was it her brother? The Tyrells? who?! She now has the power to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 To say it in Lord Tywin's words: "Because he's a Lannister." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 To argue that Jon is more likely to be saved is a nonsense. Kevan is in a more stable environment. Trying to speak sense into you would be a nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 so basically, the answer is: it's because we want Jon to live and we don't care about Kevan so he can't live.what book series have you been reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Trying to speak sense into you would be a nonsense. you thinking you know me would be a nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basileus777 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Kevan isn't a warg with a red priestess capable of resurrection nearby. Nor is he a candidate to be TPTWP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Kevan, before he died, was in Cersei's way. I wouldn't put it past her to just think "Oh, how convenient that he's dead" and leave him dead, even if she did think Qyburn could revive him. Possibly, as an added bonus, she might falsely accuse somebody else she wants out of the way. True, but with Kevan Lannister out of the way- greviously injured, assumed dead, whatever- could she not assume the Regency again once Kevan's dying body is discovered? From there, her number 1 issue would be: who killed him, and how? Becasue they could do the same to her or Tommen. It would be really beyond stupid to pass on the opportunity to find out who did it by not turning to Qyburn. I really struggle to see why this is any less plausible that the assumption that Jon will be saved, or revived. I'm not attacking Jon here- I'm saying there is an equal likelyhood that either could be revived and that puts a very different twist on the confession Varys gave to Kevan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Kevan isn't a warg with a red priestess capable of resurrection nearby. Nor is he a candidate to be TPTWP. No- he has Qyburn. Plus- he doesn't have open war going on around him- he has...guards, and Cersei- who will assume ultimate authority and decision making on discovery of Kevan. We cannot say the same at CB because we don't know who will assume authority over Jon's injured body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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