Why did Robert stay in the Eryie for so long time?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

And I am not at all sure that Robert and Eddard were not being held as hostage-wards either,  for all that they were loved by Jon Arryn and loved him back.

Huge difference in their situations, the main one being that once they came of age Robert and Ned were free to come and go as they pleased, splitting their time between their homes and the Vale and even before that were allowed home. No trips home for 20 year old Theon despite being at Winterfell for a decade. When the possibility of war breaks out between the Starks and Lannisters Ned makes sure that his 'hostage' is kept secure.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

 

 

 

In the worldbook, Maester Yandel calls Robert and Ned Jon Arryn's "former wards", indicating that they are not fostered anymore.

Since they is no reason for them to live there, if they are no wards anymore, it is only logical that they were visiting.

 

 

If you look for quotes I can only recommend the Search of Ice and Fire.

http://asearchoficeandfire.com/

Ned says that "he was eighteen again, down from the Eyrie to the tourney at Harrenhal" in 281. He's then back at the Eyrie when Aerys called for his head in 282. So he was either visiting all the time, or his "visits" after his wardship ended lasted for months or years at a time.

One thing I find strange is why Ned would be fostered at the Vale. Because given the history, the Vale and the North have been bitter enemies. I don't understand why Rickard gave Ned as a hostage(in reality) to Jon Arryn. Also, the Starks have the purest First Men blood and the Arryns the purest Andal blood. Given such history I find it quite unusual.

To answer your question, I think the North does not believe in early marriages like the South.

The Starks have recent blood ties to the Royces. Robb's heir, with all the Starks "dead" or ineligible due to marriage, is a Royce. If you noticed in the prologue and through Craster's talks of him, Waymar Royce looks very much like a Stark and has the same build that Jon does.

And it's not unheard of what Rickard did even without that recent blood tie to the Vale. Roose Bolton for instance sent Domeric to be fostered with Lord Redfort in the Vale and as far as we know neither the Boltons nor the Ryswells (as Domeric's mom was Bethany Ryswell) had any connection to the Redforts. There probably is some blood tie (Horton Redfort's had 3 unknown wives for instance) or Roose and Lord Redfort simply hit it off at some point during their lives and were friends which explains why Domeric was sent there for fostering, but as far as we know there's no explanation for why Roose sent his heir off to the Vale instead of somewhere just in the north.

[Walda]

Huge difference in their situations, the main one being that once they came of age Robert and Ned were free to come and go as they pleased, splitting their time between their homes and the Vale and even before that were allowed home. No trips home for 20 year old Theon despite being at Winterfell for a decade. When the possibility of war breaks out between the Starks and Lannisters Ned makes sure that his 'hostage' is kept secure.

When Eddard finds out about the assassination attempt on Bran he tells Catelyn

"I want a careful watch kept over Theon Greyjoy. If there is war, we shall have sore need of his father’s fleet.”(AGoT,Ch.20 Eddard IV)

Eddard had not felt the need to keep a tight watch on Theon when he left for Kings Landing, he did not take him with him or warn Catelyn and Robb to treat him with care. Theon himself seems sincere when he unnecessarily offers affirmations of loyalty like “Lord Eddard is a second father to me,”(AGoT,Ch.14 Catelyn III) and "my House owes yours a great debt.”(AGoT, Ch.55 Catelyn VIII)., apparently for the sole purpose of having Lady Stone Heart meditate long upon them. While, if anything, Catelyn is more suspicious of Theon than either Eddard or Robb, at the time she is given these tributes, she accepts them without even an internal question. Eddard was unsuspicious of Theon, it was Balon he mistrusted.

The twenty year old Theon does sail home to Balon, and when he gets there it is clear that both Robb and Theon were unaware that, with Theon in his iron grip, the last thing Balon would do is put his fleet at the service of the North. It is Balon that treats Theon like a hostage, even while Theon is 'free' to travel back to the mainland.

And in this is another reason why Theon was slow to leave Winterfell.

After Catelyn leaves Winterfell, Bran notes:"Even when he was home at Winterfell, Robb the Lord seemed to have more time for Hallis Mollen and Theon Greyjoy than he ever did for his brothers."(AGoT, Ch.24 Bran IV)

When Eddard is imprisoned:“Theon thinks I should call the banners,” Robb said...
“If your father dies,” Theon said, “Robb will be Lord of Winterfell.”(AGoT, Ch.37 Bran V)

Maybe the reason Theon was close to Robb was because Theon had always seen Robb as the one that was useful to him. Maybe he thought, if he stayed where he was, he was going to be the Hand of the Warden of the North and the heir to the Iron Isles.

When Catelyn meets Theon at Moat Cailin, she is not surprised or concerned to find that he has left Winterfell. When the time comes to welcome her  Theon Greyjoy was the last. “I had not looked to see you here, my lady,” he said as he knelt.
“I had not thought to be here,” Catelyn said, “until I came ashore at White Harbor, and Lord Wyman told me that Robb had called the banners."(AGoT, Ch.55 Catelyn VIII)

In retrospect, Robb had the whole blame for raising his banners but it was Theon's idea to go to war. Robb deserved the blame, as while it was Theon's idea, it was his decision. But he is not the only one who took it for granted that Theon was 100% team Stark

  "Someone had to go, to hold the Neck and help the Tullys against the Lannisters, Bran could understand that, but it did not have to be Robb. His brother might have given the command to Hal Mollen or Theon Greyjoy, or to one of his lords bannermen. Maester Luwin urged him to do just that"(AGoT,Ch.53 Bran VI)

Quotes like these imply Theon is not regarded as a hostage, and does not see himself as such at the time. Perhaps the only reason he doesn't travel beyond the North is because the North is so big.

 

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

Quotes like these imply Theon is not regarded as a hostage, and does not see himself as such at the time. Perhaps the only reason he doesn't travel beyond the North is because the North is so big.

How about quotes like these from Ned

"Since the night they had stood side by side in Greyjoy's fallen stronghold, where Robert had accepted the rebel lord's surrender and Ned had taken his son Theon as hostage and ward"

from Cat and Robb

"Theon's fought bravely for us. I told you how he saved Bran from those wildlings in the wolfswood. If the Lannisters won't make peace, I'll have need of Lord Greyjoy's longships."

"You'll have them sooner if you keep his son as hostage."

"He's been a hostage half his life."

 

and from Theon himself

 

"A ward in name, a hostage in truth. Half his days a hostage . . . but no longer. His life was his own again"

 

"For ten years you have been a ward of Stark."

"Hostage and prisoner, I call it."

 

He doesnt travel home because he is not allowed to.

 

 

 

[Walda]

How about quotes like these from Ned

"Since the night they had stood side by side in Greyjoy's fallen stronghold, where Robert had accepted the rebel lord's surrender and Ned had taken his son Theon as hostage and ward"

from Cat and Robb

"Theon's fought bravely for us. I told you how he saved Bran from those wildlings in the wolfswood. If the Lannisters won't make peace, I'll have need of Lord Greyjoy's longships."

"You'll have them sooner if you keep his son as hostage."

"He's been a hostage half his life."

 

and from Theon himself

 

"A ward in name, a hostage in truth. Half his days a hostage . . . but no longer. His life was his own again"

 

"For ten years you have been a ward of Stark."

"Hostage and prisoner, I call it."

 

He doesnt travel home because he is not allowed to.

 

 

 

Eddard's and Catelyn's quotes make it clear that taking Theon as a ward, and keeping him from Balon, was intended to restrict Balon's behaviour. Eddard shows no such qualms about Theon himself - his ward is armed, given the responsibilities and status of an adult son.

Lady Stark and Robb have allowed Theon to march, as Robb's second in command, to Riverrun before they quarrel about sending Theon to Seaguard with Mallister and then as an emissary to Balon. Catelyn caught and didn't care for Theon's secret smile as Robb spoke of how, when Tywin returned his men to him, he would reciprocate with his prisoners "save Jaime Lannister alone, who will remain my hostage for his father’s good behavior.”(ACoK, Ch.07 Catelyn I), but her  point, and Eddard's, was that Balon would co-operate with them only as long as they held his only son and heir (as they don't really understand how succession to the seastone chair works).

Neither Eddard, nor Catelyn, nor Robb suspected their loyal advisor Theon was playing his own game. And notice at this time, they hold hostages - Jaime, locked in a cell, Tion Frey and Willem Lannister - locked in a better cell. Nobody has locked Theon in a cell, or even confined him to Winterfell when they called the banners, as they would have, if they suspected he was not truly one of them. 

Theon's bitter claims about being a hostage and never being truly accepted by the Starks start only when he has Pyke in his sights, and "His life was his own again, and nowhere a Stark to be seen."(ACoK, Ch.11 Theon I) .

True, it is his first point of view chapter, so he may well have harboured these sentiments, although clearly his 'captors' did not, as, in order to get him within sight of his father's castle without a Stark in sight, Robb had given him a commission, a royal decree, and sent word to Balon, too: "Robb had sent ravens from Riverrun, and when they’d found no longship at Seagard, Jason Mallister had sent his own birds to Pyke, supposing that Robb’s were lost."(ACoK, Ch.11 Theon I)

While this internal bitterness is surprising, and conflicts with everything we know about Theon from the outside, we soon learn that he has not completely abandoned his King Robb. When he tells 'Esgred' "We’re off to war within a fortnight."(ACoK, Ch.11 Theon I), he knew nothing of Balon's plans, and his head is still full of the war he is fighting for Robb. When he knows about Balon's plans, he attempts to suggest his own, as he was accustomed to do with King Robb and Catelyn, but is ignored.

We are given insight into his loyalties to his 'real' dad as he picks the crew for his ship:"It was fighters he wanted, and men who would be loyal to him, not to his lord father or his uncles. He was playing the part of a dutiful young prince for the moment, while he waited for Lord Balon to reveal the fullness of his plans. If it turned out that he did not like those plans or his part in them, however, well …"(ACoK, Ch.24 Theon II). Theon sees himself as nobody's man but his own. Although from the outside he seems to be everyone's tool but his own.

We can see plenty of other inconstancies between Theon's internal claims, and the external facts, too.

Theon: "The whole castle, from Lady Stark to the lowliest kitchen scullion, knew he was hostage to his father’s good behavior, and treated him accordingly. Even the bastard Jon Snow had been accorded more honor than he had."(ACoK, Ch.11 Theon I)

Jon:"The last of the high lords to enter were his uncle, Benjen Stark of the Night’s Watch, and his father’s ward, young Theon Greyjoy. Benjen gave Jon a warm smile as he went by. Theon ignored him utterly, but there was nothing new in that."(AGoT, Ch.05 Jon I)

or Theon:"No ornament; he had nothing bought with iron. I might have taken something off that wildling I killed to save Bran Stark, but he had nothing worth the taking. That’s my cursed luck, I kill the poor."

Theon's internal musings don't jibe with the facts- it is Theon, not Robb, that has the honour of carrying Ice to the execution, and at the feast for the King, Theon is treated with honour at the feast while Jon is tucked away at the far end of the hall.  On his lack of Iron-price trinkets, Theon has barely finished telling Asha of how he almost killed Jaime, and doubtless did kill someone in his Lannister host. He didn't rob the wealthy dead, because he was with Robb, who found that kind of behaviour ignoble.

Later, when he is under his real father's command and he encounters Benfred Tallhart on the Stony Shore, "Theon thought of seeking out the bodies of the two men he’d slain himself to see if they had any jewellery worth the taking, but the notion left a bitter taste in his mouth."(ACoK,Ch.37 Theon III). In fact, he kills a man who is stripping a body, using insubordination as his excuse. His heart's desire is to be the Prince of Winterfell. not Prince of the Ironborn.

Theon remembers how Dagmer Cleftjaw "gave me more smiles than my father and Eddard Stark together. Even Robb … he ought to have won a smile the day he’d saved Bran from that wildling" . As he realises Robb is going to hear how Theon has served the Tallharts and the North, he resents how Robb had treated him "as if he were some cook who’d burned the stew."(ACoK, Ch.37 Theon III).

So we learn pretty quickly that Theon's view is post-hoc justification of his sorry self, and even those who love him best and treat him most honourably inspire his resentment when he wrongs them. When he claims to have killed Bran and Rickon he is quick to note:"it was blood for blood besides, two sons of Eddard Stark to pay for Rodrik and Maron.”(ACoK,Ch.56 Theon V).

To use the same quote you used, to show the difference between what Theon thinks when it suits him, and what the external facts prove:

“For ten years you have been a ward of Stark.”
“Hostage and prisoner, I call it.”
“Then perhaps Lord Eddard should have kept you chained to a dungeon wall. Instead he raised you among his own sons, the sweet boys you have butchered, and to my undying shame I trained you in the arts of war."(ACoK, Ch.66 Theon VI)

[thelittledragonthatcould]

snip

None of that changes the fact that Theon was a hostage who did not have his freedom while Ned and Robert were wards who had the freedom to go where they wanted.

[Walda]

None of that changes the fact that Theon was a hostage who did not have his freedom while Ned and Robert were wards who had the freedom to go where they wanted.

So can you tell me how Theon got to Balon in the Iron Isles, in his twentieth year?

[Swordofmorning]

He was already 20 years old during the rebellion and he still lived with Jon Arryn. 

He had a Strom's end and whole Stormland to rule, and we know in westeros, even you are a king, you should rule independently at 16 years old. 

This is not like he went to serve in small council so he left other people to rule in his stead. 

Why did he stay there for so long time?

For Ned?

 

By the way, so many people married and had children at 14, 15 years old in westeros. 

Since he loved Lyanna so much, why did not he marry her earlier?

Lyanna was at least 15 at kidnapping. 

And we know dany already married at 13. Rhaella was like 14. Sansa was like 13. 

What is he waiting for? 

 

Of Course, NedBert!!!!!

 

 

And to search the SSM archive just use:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=site:http:%2F%2Fwww.westeros.org%2FCitadel%2FSSM%2F

and add what you're looking for on the end.

 I can't thank you enough for this. It always intrigued me how some posters could provide links for SSMs in a moment. I never could search for the SSMs that I needed.

So can you tell me how Theon got to Balon in the Iron Isles, in his twentieth year?

Becoz of Robb's stupidity.

If it had been upto Ned or even Cat, Theon wouldn't have been sent to Balon.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

So can you tell me how Theon got to Balon in the Iron Isles, in his twentieth year?

Right, his 20th year. While Ned and Robert got to travel where ever they wanted on their own when they hit 16 and even before that were allowed home while Theon was not.

GRRM on the subject:

He was fostered, not exiled. Yes, certainly he returned home. Less frequently the first few years, when he would have been performing the duties of a page and then a squire, more often and for longer periods later. During his "squire" years (he wasn't a squire in the strict sense, since he wasn't training for knighthood, but he was acting as one), he would also have accompanied Jon Arryn on many travels out of the Vale. And once he reached the age of sixteen he was a man grown, free to come to go as he liked... which would have included both time at home and in the Vale, since Jon Arryn had become a second father. The same was true of Robert, who divided his time between Storm's End and the Vale after reaching manhood, not to mention dropping in on tourneys and whatever choice fights he could find.