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  1. Aegon. Or FAegon, if you prefer. He seems like a decent enough young man, but waging war on Westeros because the Iron Throne is your birthright? It is idiotic and hateful. Tyrion purs the idea into his head, and he goes for it. Jon Con runs with it because he was always a bit hot-headed and hasty, and the greyscale just made him hastier. That's another suffering exile I don't have much time for. Jorah Mormont the self-pitying slaver, Lord Rickard Karstark who killed boys under the protection of his King and liege in order to prolong the war so he could plunder some wealth from the South. Don't have a lot of time for his grief, either (especially as he seemed to care less than Roose Bolton did for Harrion's fate). Quentyn Martell, dragonthief. "had played the wineseller but the mummery had chafed at him". And even when he was committed to the role, Garin’s mother had seen him at the Planky Town, she knew her prince was not a merchant. Honestly, the whole scheme is a clueless princeling's arrogance and self-aggrandizement, and it is difficult to feel sorry for him even as he pays the price for stupidly unleashing the dragons. I actually feel more sorry for the former residents of the pyramids of Hazkar, Yerizan and Uhlez, and the half-hundred freedmen slain by the sons of the harpy when they see such an obvious symptom of the breakdown in law and order since their Queen left. Not blaming Quent for the harpy's sons, though. Barry deserves a bit of side-eye here for deposing the King. But at least he had a plan for government in Hizdhar's absence. The governance of Dany's people hasn't figured in any of Quentyn's plans. Well, thankfully he won't be ruling any kingdoms.
  2. Dany was in the position of translator of Viserys to Drogo and Drogo to Viserys. She was in a position where she could interpret Drogo's words to Viserys as (AGoT Ch 46 Daenerys V) Ignoring the bloodriders descending on him and the stillness of the hall, Viserys assumes from that, that Khal Drogo is renewing his agreement to invade the Seven Kingdoms as he comes to reclaim the wife he "bought". Dany knew how Viserys understood the situation. She shared his view until Jorah set her straight (AGoT, Ch 36 Daenerys IV) Then she follows up with this: (AGoT Ch 36 Daenerys IV ) When Viserys lowered his sword and told her that he only wanted what was promised, she knew her khal was going to murder him on the spot. She had heard that threat in her husband's words, and his bloodriders heard their instruction to seize Viserys. Yet Viserys did not, because Dany intentionally completely elides that meaning from what she communicated to him. Dany was in a position to tell her husband that her brother wanted to attend her feast and offered the Stallion who Mounts the World his sword for Freedom. She could elide the threat in Viserys's words as easily as she did Drogo's. Why should she? She should because Viserys is her king, and it is treachery to conspire with those that would kill him, treason not to defend him. She should because Viserys is her brother, her only living family (as far as she knows), the longest and the closest human relationship she has had with anyone (except, arguably, Rhaego), and if she doesn't speak in his defence, her husband will kill him. - @Hippocras, I thought I did address the areas where this post (in my opinion) misreads the text, but for the sake of clarity, I'll go through point by point Before her reveal though, Mirri is only introduced when she intervenes after Dany had successfully ordered the eunuchs to sew up and/or cauterize Drogo's wound, which Drogo was willing to put off (but still get done after his own men had been seen to). This is the treatment Cohollo receives and he ends up perfectly fine. Because it was the correct one. As Dany, Drogo, and Cohollo all knew. Mirri intervenes here and instead offers her own services, convincing them off the basis that she's been trained by a maester which in theory would be superior to the eunuchs. Presumably she has to have been somewhat trained to know of Marwin, a confirmed maester that was in that area, but then she doesn't give a maester's treatment. Mirri proceeds to clean his wound with alcohol, but then she STUFFS the wounds with leaves and cooking spices, sews them SHUT INTO the wound (and badly as she says it will leave a horrible scar rather than an evenly stitched one like the eunuchs leave), and then covers it with a lamb skin for a "bandage" and orders that Drogo keep the SAME lambskin on for 10 straight days rather than changing it periodically. This will very obviously cause the wound to become infected. As it did. The excuse about "not drinking", which Drogo obviously was going to do, as presumably so did every other Dothraki, is simply there to cover up what she did by sewing fucking dirt into a wound and then covering it with more dirt. She deliberately tried to make sure his wound got 10 days worth of harmful dirt and bacteria interaction. We also know she didn't give him the maester's treatment as, apart from the obvious unsanitary nature of what she did, but Aemon and Qyburn, on Jon and Jaime's wounds respectively, both show us the exact same method that the maesters obviously use for wounds and preventing infection. Both of them clean the wound with boiled wine, cauterize/cut off the bad flesh, make a poultice of nettle, mustard seed and moldy bread, and then regularly change the bandages with new ones. We know the maester treatment for Drogo's wound that Marwyn would've taught her, and we know Mirri did not do that. Mirri 100% purposefully infected Drogo. She wanted him dead for what he'd done. As she literally says in the first quote. As to your own topic, your own quotes just further prove she knew exactly what she was doing. She was present for all of the times to prove that killing Drogo would have the most devastating consequences to those who'd harmed her and her village. If Drogo dies then Qotho at least for sure was going to start murdering among his khalasar, and we literally did see many of the Dothraki simply break off to start their own khalasars (which will mean fighting among themselves). Rather than show what she needs to do to keep Dany in power, it shows exactly what she needs to do to ruin them. Drogo is all that's keeping things together, and Drogo's who led these men to ruin her and her Lambs lives. So obviously she'll take out Drogo. Hence why she interrupted his treatment from the eunuchs. I don't blame Mirri at all for wanting revenge, but she absolutely did purposefully fuck over Dany. (u/markg171 on r/asoiaf in response to the comment "(Spoilers Extended) Becoming a Mirri Maz Duur Apologist" by u/hippocrite_deer 2 years ago) Firstly, if Mirri wanted Drogo dead, how did he survive all her treatments? Even Pycelle, who has difficulty controlling infection, can bungle Jon Arryn's treatment by instructing Maester Colemon to stop with the emetics. As Maester Cressen observes "men who knew how to heal also knew how to kill". Mirri could have killed the Khal when he went into her temple, but she removed the arrow and sewed up the breast wound. Markg171 contends that she sewed putrifying agents into the wounds. But the arrow wound apparently healed just fine and there was no putrification of the breast wound or sign of Drogo weakening until after Mirri's poltice was replaced with the mud poltice of the Dothraki herbwomen. The second time she attended the khal, Mirri needed only to wait if she wanted him dead. Instead, she mentioned blood magic. But not because it gave her the opportunity to kill Drogo. She held a dagger in her hand while he laid helpless in a bath before her, and slashed the horse's throat, not his. Drogo remained alive for several weeks after the battle, was kept alive by Mirri until Dany killed him. The quote Markg171 offers is what Mirri replied to Dany's accusation that Mirri murdered Rhaego. Mirri pointing out that Rheago won't be missed by the untrampled nations, and that Dany's "saving" of her was virtue signalling, is not a revelation of intent to murder Drogo. The idea that it could be a revelation is undermined by the simple fact that Drogo is still alive when Mirri says this. It isn't even an admission of killing Rheago. Next paragraph: Danny did not "sucessfully" order the hairless men to cauterise and sew up Drogo's wound. (AGoT Ch61 Daenerys VII) The hairless men do not come at Dany's request, and Mirri cares for Drogo at his own command. We hear no more of Cohollo's shoulder wound. We don't know who treated it, or how, or how well it healed. We see Cohollo follow Drogo into Mirri's temple, help hold Drogo down on the alter, and leave to find Drogo's vest before the talk turns to midwifing. We can assume Cohollo's shoulder healed fine, because it isn't mentioned again. We can also assume Drogo's arrow wound healed fine, on the same basis. Cohollo's wound might have been tended to by the hairless men, after Drogo had got his vest. Drogo's wound might have healed if cauterised and sewn on the day of battle - Mirri hints as much when she says "There is great healing magic in fire, even your hairless men know that." But we don't see any of the eunuchs work, their sucesses or their failures. Mirri was defending her own choice of disinfectant - the firepod and sting-me-not poltice, rather than whatever it is the hairless men used as "fire". Mirri had explained to Dany and Jorah that she had learnt medicine firstly from her mother, who was godswife before her, and then from the mages of Asshai, where she also learnt from a moonsinger, a Dothraki herbwoman, and Maester Marwin, who also taught her the common tongue. Markg171 focuses only on the Maester's training, as if that were the only or the most important medical training she received. Even though a lot of what we see of the medical practice of maesters is dubious: Pycelle failing to stop wounds from festering by pouring boiled wine on them; Colemon experimenting with the sour-milk medicine that Mirri uses to break Dany's fever after the stillbirth. Cressen killing himself with the poison Melisandre knew how to ward herself against. Mirri uses the Western technique of boiled wine to clean the wounds, she also uses a chant to remove the arrow, and poultices of sting-me-not, and for the breast, firepod paste and a sheepskin plaster to bind it and keep the dirt out. I don't think GRRM implies that only men have effective healing methods, but Markg171 discounts all the female healing practices Mirri has learnt, and doesn't seem to consider that sting-me-not and firepod might be alternate names for nettle and mustard seed, both of which are sewn into wounds by Qyburn and Maester Aemon to good effect. In the book, Mirri's lambswool was not left on for ten days. While it was on, it burned and itched as promised (signs of a healing wound). So Drogo had torn it off before its healing course was run, and had a figleaf and mud plaster put on by the Dothraki herb women. Mud. Could the dirt have possibly been in the mud? Six days of increasing signs of infection after, of restless sleep and increasingly pain-filled days, the wound is putrid and gangrenous. Markg171 just ignores the Dothraki mud plaster, and writes off the poppy wine they made as something "Drogo was obviously going to do". On the last paragraph: Qotho saw Dany as nothing more than Drogo's woman, deriving all the power she had from him, and being nothing without him. Mirri was singled out for special helps of Qotho's brand of gendered violence, but his outbursts do not prove that he would "for sure" be murdering people in the khalassar if Drogo wasn't there to stop him. Of course a khalassar of that size is going to have factions in it. Of course it is going to fracture when the strong man weakens, or is defeated, or dies. Mirri didn't need Qotho's attacks on her to know that. Dany starts seeing Mirri as a traitor the moment Mirri describes her stillborn child as "monstrous". Dany thinks Mirri is being cruel, accuses her of cheating her, murdering her child within her. Mirri's replies are not conciliatory, but they are not admissions of guilt either. Mirri didn't kill Drogo. Dany did. It is right there in the book (AGoT Ch 68 Daenerys IX) If Mirri had tried to kill Drogo for vengence, she failed. Her treatments did not kill Drogo, and after Dany killed Drogo, she killed Mirri. The breakup of Drogo's khalassar did not give freedom to Mirri's townsfolk. Most of the slaves are taken by Jhaqo and Pono. Eroeh had her throat cut by Mago. The ones that were freed, were freed by Dany, on the day Mirri died, or when Dany attacked the slave cities they were sold in. And of course, her town is as sacked, the dead as dead, the raped as raped, as they were before this "vengence" that only enables Jhaqo and Pono in the short term. After Dany murders Mirri, she tells herself repeatedly that Mirri murdered Drogo and Rhaego "for blood", that Mirri was immolated because she "betrayed" Dany. That Mirri made her barren, or said she would never give birth to a living child. Even though she knows that Mirri did not kill Drogo, she tells herself these things. Qotho blamed Mirri for Drogo's festering wound, even though he knew that she had been in the slave column while Drogo was being cared for by Dothraki healers. That might justify his violence towards her in his mind, or maintain his faith in the superiority of Dothraki healers, but his accusations are not proof that Mirri had blundered, or intentionally harmed Drogo, any more than Dany's. This argument just isn't based on a close reading of the text.
  3. I think the show leaned heavily into the idea that an extremely attractive, driven, capable, intelligent, passionate woman his own age, as familiar as himself with the battlefield and the realities of war, was a soulmate, and young love being what it was,they would marry heedless of the plans their parents have made for them. The show did a really good job of presenting the Frey women Robb would have chosen to marry as very ordinary girls, and each in her own way a vastly less compatible and appropriate choice for Robb's queen. Even Roslin was just a very pretty Frey. She didn't have Talisa's privileged Old Blood of Volantis upbringing, or her familiarity with battlefields and the logistics of war (especially Robbs war). I don't want to debate the relative attractiveness of Oona Chaplin and Alexandra Dowling - they are both extremely attractive - but Oona's facial features are more striking and strong while Alexandra's are softer and more ethereal, the way they are made up and lit in the show. Roslin is the only Frey woman portrayed as attractive on the show. The rest are drab, too old, too young, too pregnant etc. All the Frey girls are presented as living locked up in the Frey family bubble, under the thumb of their pater familias, with downcast eyes, sullen lighting and costume, pallid plain makeup. Roslin is only slighly excepted, with her beauty and her smiles, but even she has the timidity and slightness of a Frey girl. Talisa attends the wedding and her direct eye contact, conversation (she talks! She initiates her own conversations!) and general manners showcase her independence, her queenly demenor, the strength of her character. No wonder Robb fell in love with her, and preferred to honour their love over the selfish and petty ambitions of Lord Frey. Also, she went to the Red Wedding pregnant, for maximum emotional impact. The show's plotting is not as nuanced or thought through as the novels. There are fewer characters, fewer subplots, and very often the backstory and believability of a character or subplot is left to costume and makeup. I think they did a very good job in this instance. Robb isn't presented in the show as having the high, unyeilding honour of Eddard Stark. In the book, the Lannisters question Robb's honor (ASoS, Ch Tyrion) In the end, Tywin settles that Robb is his father's son, but the doubt that what he did was truly honourable remains. In the show it was simpler - Robb fell in love, preferred his own choice of wife to Lord Frey's, and figured they could bring Walder around to renewing his Northern alliance with a show of humility and the marriage of Edmure to Roslin. Prefering his own will to diplomacy, and failing to see the optics when he executes Karstark for dishonouring him, but breaks his vow to Lord Walder just because he fell in love, are characteristics of book-Robb too. One look at the characters invoved in the show, and Robb's reason for chosing his own bride were perfectly believable. Having him chose to take pregnant Talisa with him to the Red Wedding was another senseless "What were you thinking, Robb?" moment on the show. A FAFO response in the face of an ultimatum is pretty common in real life politics and diplomacy too, so for people who had not read the books, it was a familiar and credible situation. And Robb certainly found out.
  4. I think Gregor (while no angel) has been blamed for the deeds of Amory Lorch and his men at Sherrer , and the Brave Companions at Wendish Town, as well as his own attack at Darry. I think he did not kill Elia or her son, that he was hoisting a Lannister flag over the barracks at the main gate of the Red Keep at the time, and the killer had fled from the throne room to the nursey via a route with a lot in common with the one Arya took when she ended up in the same nursery (now sheltering Tommen and Myrcella) while she was chasing Balerion the cat. However, Ser Gregor might have been Elia's secret lover at the time of her death. And have disolved into a poppy-fueled taciturn rage at it happening, but took the blame and ignomy for the murder as an act of loyalty to Tywin. Maybe telling himself it didn't matter, with her dead he would be living in hell forever after anyway. On the toy knight, he might have been too old for toys, but he aspired to a knighthood, so his younger brother stealing could be a bigger deal than Sandor expected it to be. And Joss the innkeep is lying about Gregor setting fire to his town. It was raining solidly when Gregor came to his inn - Gregor was staying there while detained by flooding and rains. He wasn't able to set fire to anything, or inclined to. Joss hates Gregor because he sold Layna's maidenhead to him for a silver stag. As a father he was complicit in her rape, and he did it for coin. He projects his shame as blame, his guilt as well as his anger against Gregor and his men. That, and perhaps a friendly understanding between Joss and Lorch is why he is prepared to spread false rumours about Gregor.
  5. The Blue Bard is Willas Tyrell in disguise. He is the brother Septa Scolera mentions. (ADwD, Ch 54 Cersei I) Margaery's rides out to the Blackwater for falconing and gathering autumn leaves and so on are also a ruse for communications with Highgarden via river boats. I am guessing Loras's situation has been misrepresented or not represented to Cersei either. She is just being told what she wants to hear. Who knows the truth of where he is and how he is? The moon tea that Pycelle prepares is for Tanea, who had taken Ser Osmund Kettleblack of the Kingsguard as a lover, turning the Kettleblacks to Team Margaery. Tanea put it in the wine she shared with Cersei, and it slowly poisoned both Cersei and Ser Boris, giving them bloat, dark circles under their eyes, breathlessness and a hammering heart, especially on exertion like climbing steps, dry throat, itchy eyes. Cersei is lucky the faith took her out of the Red Keep when they did, and put her into detox. She was just recovering from her withdrawal from the tansy, wormwood, pennyroyal, and alcohol when she had her walk of shame. She might miscarry a fourth child of Jaimes. Not sure about Boros. He hasn't had a break from drinking, and might die from it. I think he has some kind of one-sided chaste chivalrous romance of courtly love with Cersei as his object, and blames the incest on Jaime.
  6. Not a trivial answer. Mirri kept Drogo (and Dany) alive. Dany killed Drogo. I think the book shows Mirri Maz Duur offering the best treatment she could give, clearly better than that offered by Maester Pycelle, or Colemon, or even Luwin. For all her training in medicine and magic, Mirri is firstly Godswife of the temple of the Great Shepherd, who guards the flocks of men. (AGoT Ch61 Daenerys VII) The cultural difference between Qotho's threat and Mirri's reply is why I think Mirri was aware it was likely Drogo would ignore her advice and seek the healing of his own people. Because the Dothraki believe in the supremacy of their own race, which was anathema to her religion. But she also knew that she would fare as he did, regardless. Including regardless of what she might know of the future from her maegi skills. When she mocked Drogo's beliefs by quoting his reprimand to Dany, adding sadly “Ask or tell, it makes no matter. He is beyond a healer’s skills.” (AGoT Ch64 Daenerys VIII), she knew that she would be dead by the morning also, if she did not "save" him. She warns Dany that blood magic has a hard price. That it was not a matter of gold or horses. That only death can pay for life. The Dothraki may value the horses they ride above those of the slaves they trade, but Mirri views each human life as equal to the other, and not as a medium of exchange, like gold, or a horse. The death is the death of khal's bloodline as well as his heir, the prophesied Stallion that Mounts the World. Eroeh, of Mirri's own people, bears the death of the horse, but flees when the red powder is cast on the brazier. That is a hint to Dany that the rite was only beginning, and the sacrifice had not yet been made. Dany feels Eroeh's fear. Mirri then explicitly warned Dany before the spell started that Dany must also leave, that no-one must enter the tent when she starts to sing, that the dead will dance and no man should look upon them. This is the point in the narrative where Drogo's bloodriders bring the Hairless Men. Too little, too late. Perhaps on the day of the battle the eunuchs would have done as well as Mirri at extracting the arrow, cleaning and sewing the arakh wound on his chest, but Drogo sent them to attend to more seriously wounded warriors on that day, and his bloodriders saw no need to fetch them when he decided to risk the maegi's practice. So the eunuchs arrive long after Drogo has fallen from his horse - when his horse is dead. When Mirri claims he will die before the sun rises, no matter what healing arts they employ. The point at which the wound became infected was most likely six days before then, when Khal Drogo had the strength to tear off the fireseed and lambskin plaster, before the ten days of healing were up, and had the herbwomen of his khalassar make him a soothing plaster of fig leaf and river mud to soothe the burn. The mud was from the Skahazdan (or a tributary of it - we know the khalassar is following the river downstream south-east to Meereen), and it is unusually full of bloodfly maggots from the rotting carcasses of sheep that had been floating down it from the town Khal Ogo sacked the week before. Mirri's town. The Dothraki herb women didn't factor in the temporary eutrophication of the river system from the battle, or its effect on bacteria, water quality, and bloodfly eggs. Drogo's herb women also set about making him milk of the poppy to dull any pain. Other than the firey pain (of inflammation, the body's way of protecting itself) there are no signs of infection when he rips Mirri's plaster off. Why should we suppose she is to blame for the results, when he had been using the medicines of his own people exclusively for almost a week before infection was detected? (And even then, the deterioration of Drogo's health was ignored by his bloodriders, and the herb women he continued to get painkillers from raised no alarm either.) Mirri knew better, and had explicitly advised him better, but while he used the healing skills of his own people at the head of the Khalassar, she was trudging along with the other slaves at the very back. Nobody consulted her until after he is falling off his horse, being consumed alive by flies. The deep wound to his shoulder from the arrowhead that Mirri had also attended, but the herb women had ignored, had healed well and was not an issue by that time. It got a leaf plaster, but not the green paste, or the red, or the stiches. Or the herb-womens' mud plaster. Drogo ended up with a big scar the way his herb women treated the chest wound, too. I suspect that the superficial wound, with the large surface area, on an area of his chest that was going to pull a lot while he rode and it healed, and had to stretch to cover the missing nipple, was going to lead to a big scar even if it had been sewn by the eunuchs. Especially if they had cauterised it then sewn it. This isn't the only time Mirri's advice is ignored. When it comes to the birth, Dany promised Mirri that nobody would enter the tent. Dany seems to have lapsed into unconsciousness or at least shut her eyes when her first contractions came and Jorah brought her thither. Dany uttered no word of warning to Jorah. Perhaps she was not able to - from her own point of view she tried to stop him, but he couldn't hear or understand her. But that would be reading Dany's point of view the way Dany does. I don't. It seems to me that after Dany had the second dragon dream, the one without Viserys, she immediately started testing Ser Jorah, to see if Viserys's Kingsguard could be undermined. And pretty much straight away learnt that she could. She very quickly has Jorah as her own protector and ally against Viserys, in all but name. Then, when they are deep in the Dothraki Sea, she uses Doreah's sex tricks to ensure Drogo is bound more strongly to her. Also, by being the mother of his son, creating a blood tie stronger than that he had with his bloodriders, certainly stronger than the bond to her brother and the promises that were her bride price. She doesn't allow herself to think so, but she was complicit in Viserys's death. After his death, she does not give up on the plan to reclaim the Iron Throne, in spite of her more realistic estimation of the love of her smallfolk. She pesters her husband to turn West and cross the sea and claim the Iron Throne for her son. With Viserys dead, she would be his regent. As the last Targaryen, it's her right. It took the encounter with the wineseller to convince Drogo. Observe, we never get to find out if the wine he offered her was really poisoned. But then, in spite of his promises, Drogo did not immediately turn west, either. He kept heading South East, to the Lhazareen river. Jorah spun this as getting ten thousand slaves that they could trade in Meereen for ships. He emphasized the children that could get a good price as bedslaves, de-emphasized the Dothraki warriors that could get a good price in the fighting pits. Dany did not know that Yunkai was the city that specalised in bedslaves, but Jorah did. I don't think Dany or Jorah really know or care what was going on between Drogo and Ogo, why Drogo was determined to go east. It doesn't seem to me to be related to Westeros and the Iron Throne at all. Drogo is still resistant to the idea of ships, and still heading south east. Dany could have deterred her husband from killing her brother and King with a word, but she did not speak it. She could have asked Drogo to keep Mirri's plaster, or summoned Mirri back, but she did not. She watched his troubled sleep and increasing pain for days before he fell from his horse. He fell from his horse when only she was close enough to witness, and he fell when she reached out and touched his arm (Touched? Pulled? Pushed?) She gave orders to his bloodriders that directly contradicted what he was saying ("My horse...no, must ride, no"), pretending that her husband had fallen asleep when he is struggling to speak without revealing his vulnerability to his bloodriders (who pretty much straight away tell everyone Jorah speaks to that the Khal has fallen from his horse) Terribly convenient how all these little choices of Dany's result in her being the Last Targaryen, speaking for the mighty Khal of the greatest Khalassar on the Dothraki Sea, and above all, hatching live dragons from the stone eggs, a project that has obsessed her, but that she shared with no-one. From Dany's point of view, she was not concious during the (vaginal, not c-section) birth of her child. She had been in a fever, dreaming. Coming in and out of conciousness three or four times after the birth, but before she learnt its outcome. When Dany woke after the birth, Jorah is still there. Mirri is there too. Mirri has tended her through the fever and brought her back alive. She did not use the time to leave, though plenty of others did. She did not leave Dany's side, though her own life was under threat by staying. She served Dany as midwife when the Dothraki midwives would not touch her. We can see here that Mirri gives better care than many maesters. Maester Colemon gives SweetRobin a very similar medicine to the milk drink with something bitter in it. The difference is Mirri knows what it does, what the correct dose is, when to administer it. She follows it up with sweetwine, not sweetsleep. And, unlike the green stuff Maester Luwin gives to Bran, it delivers dreamless sleep. The red powder she puts on the brazier seems to me similar to the one Melisandre adds to her brazier before she throws the kingsblood leeches onto it. Perhaps it just makes the flames leap, or covers the smell of burning blood. Or perhaps it is part of the magic, altering the perceptions of the observer. I personally think Mirri did her best to bring Rheago into the world in one piece, if not alive. If we look at the Targaryen line, there is a history of miscarriages, of babies stillborn with wings and tails, black and dead. The deformities and the early birth are not necessarily caused by Mirri and her magic. They might be caused by Dany and her Targaryen inheritance. Or she might have contracted typhus from Drogo, and those kicks of Rheago's that Dany thinks of as proof of his strength, might signal foetal distress as her unborn son fights his own fever. There are parrallels between Dany's fever dream of Rheago and Varamyr's memory of the death of Orell's eagle, that Melisandre claimed was due to the fiery talons of R'hollr. Which implies Mirri did some magic in the tent that burnt Rheago or his changling out- but Mirri did it to keep Drogo and Dany alive, and warned Dany she would do, though Dany chose to ignore her and misinterpret her warning. Mirri took one life. Quaro and Drogo's bloodriders were not her kills. The horse died at Mirri's hand, but as Dany pointed out, the Dothraki kill horses, Khal Drogo killed a stallion for its heart - no murder in their culture, or hers. Dany is alive, and still fertile, thanks to Mirri (Though she choses to believe that Mirri told her she was barren). None of this reads like betrayal to me. Not that Mirri has sworn allegience to her. Mirri has been taken as a slave. Being claimed by Dany doesn't mean she isn't raped and kicked and punched and given credible death threats to Dany's face. From Mirri's appearance when she comes to serve again, what happens at the back of the Khalassar, behind Dany's back, isn't better than that. Mirri's village is as sacked, her people as dead, her flock as scattered, as if she were not "saved", as if she were anyone else's slave. When Drogo dies, at Dany's hand, Mirri dies too. Dany hears her scream. But Dany misinterprets everything Mirri does. I personally believe that Mirri gifted Dany's dragons her Moonsingers birthing spell, and the magic that had burnt Rhaego out of Dany, also made the dragon eggs hot enough, animate enough to hatch. That, and Mirri's life of course. Drogo and the horse are not sacrifices, they are dead already, and as Mirri explained: (AGoT, Ch 72 Daenerys X) Only that time, Dany listened. Later, when Dany is musing over what she learnt from the undying, she decides Mirri Maz Duur committed treason - for saving the lives of the Khal of the Dothraki, and the true Queen of Westeros, even though Mirri is not a subject of either of them, enslaved by both. Dany remembers her treachery, although Mirri consorted with no enemy of hers or Drogo to undermine either. Dany remembers that Mirri killed Drogo, even though she did it herself, with a cushion, in spite of Mirri's success in keeping him alive. You know, some stroke patients make remarkable progress in the 3 months after they are treated for it. They might be blind, unreactive, witless in the first days, but they learn to walk, talk, enjoy their friend and interests with a bit of time and physio. Drogo was already able to walk and swallow by the time Dany recovered after the birth. But Dany wasn't going to be waiting around hoping his recovery would continue at this rapid pace. Dany murdered Drogo and Mirri. Then claimed Mirri murdered Drogo "for blood", for revenge. Both Mirri and Drogo died without bloodshed. Mirri knew she was going to burn on the khal's funeral pyre. Dany sometimes claims because Mirri murdered her husband and son for vengeance. Mirri let her think so, but Mirri knew the words that would wake the dragons, and how would the birth of dragons, and the rise of Dany as the Mother of Dragons serve Mirri's vengence? Mirri didn't contradict Dany, is all. Mirri was Dany's slave, from when Dany claimed her, to the day she died. Immediately after Dany orders Mirri be bound hand and foot, doused in oil, and put on Drogo's funeral bier, Dany frees all the slaves that remain in the khalassar, except Mirri. The medicines Mirri administered were not poisoning anything but bacteria at the time they were applied. The Khal had been fit and strong, but discomforted and annoyed by her treatments. He started sickening with gangrene and fever days after he rejected her practice for that of the herb women. Mirri was able to arrest the gangrene and break his fever, although Drogo was as unseeing and speechless as he had been when he had the fever. She didn't poison him. She gave him life. She also saved Dany's life by removing the gangrenous stillborn entirely. She also was able to preserve Dany's fertility. She also successfully midwifed Dany's three dragons, and prophesied Khal Drogo would be his khal warrior self when he from the shadowlands (or perhaps, she just prophesised he would return, not that he would be as he was). Mirri clearly didn't poison Drogo. His herb women and their river mud plasters did, accidentally.
  7. Not just Osha. Talisa Maegyr was a more interesting character than Jane Westerling. Jane has the love potion theory to explain why so slight a character as herself was chosen at such cost to be his queen, but Talisa needs no such excuses. Talisa was also a way of getting a sneak preview of Volantis, long before the show went there. I loved her scene with Martyn Lanister and Tion Frey, too. Myranda (Ramsey's lover) was another great character - better than Kyra and Palla combined, in my opinion. In general, as long as they had the real story to give them structure and steer their story to navigable routes, D&D did a great job of "improving" female characters. Brienne, Catelyn, Cersei, Margaery, Missandei, Dany were all the better as characters for it. I think show Lancel with perfect physical health but turning into an unhinged zealot was a great move too. But of course, these choices have consequences. I love book Myranda, but she becomes imposible with the merging of Harry the Heir and fArya into Ramsey and Sansa. Plot-wise, there were reasons for the characters being the way they are. I am guessing Missandei was a character that was going to last the five year gap, and still be a teenager. Hence the incredible precocity, and the important job she has at age eleven. I think I also liked the very different way they dealt woth Qarth and Xaro Xohan Daxos. Who, it turns out, owns nothing but an empty vault that Dany locks him up in. The storyline has the quality of a fable, although it burns short the arc of a very interesting villain. And it means Cersei and Jaime get a painted map of Westeros in the Red Keep, because XXD can't give Dany a carpet of the ancient world in Meereen. Also, the sons of the Harpy look great, and I can see why, on tv, they had to have a distinctive visual marker, but really, for what they are, that makes no sense. It is like expecting members of Anonymous to wear a Guy Fawkes mask while they are hacking, or for police to keep white capriotes on hand to use in cases of racist violence. Also, it was a bit confusing that the Brazen Beasts, who had a reason to wear golden masks, did not exist. I suppose getting rid of the free companies, except Daario, and the Brazen Beasts, and the Freedman companies, and the squires and the pit fighters and the vast array of miscellaneous Yunkai and allied slave companies opposing Dany, made for a manageable, coherent cinematic narrative.
  8. George IV (aka the Prince Regent, Prince of Whales, Alvanley's fat friend) had diabetes, which was regarded as a type of gout at the time. In addition, Aegon might have had pressure sores. These start with poor circulation and pressure to an area. It is too easy to leave a small pressure area untreated or inadequately treated in very large immobile patients due to the difficulty moving them, without tearing their softer, moister, more fragile skin or exacerbating the injuries already there. The large surface area of their bodies need to be checked and massaged and cleaned very regularily (at least every 2 hours, including all through the night), especially the numerous deep skin folds, that tend to chafe and get sweaty and have skin flakes - it is quite difficult and time consuming to make sure all of these don't develop cracks that could become infected. Just cleaning his bottom properly would be a challenge, and that combined with pressure sores would explain the maggots. Terribly painful, even without the maggots. I hope he was stuck on a well padded couch with silk sheets to roll him on, rather than one with springs that dig into him like the swords of the Iron Throne. But I always thought GRRM was hinting that Aegon IV had contracted Sweetrot from a sex partner, leaving it to the reader to determine how a disease from Sotheryos had found its way to the Iron Throne.
  9. I thought the Dothraki were harder to explain. They are a parasitic culture, and like obligate carnivores, their existance depends on having a lot of prospering Lhazarene to predate on and steal Gods from. The gold that the Free Cities pay them has limited value to the Dothraki. They spend most of their time traversing the grassy steppe that is the Dothraki Sea, herding their slaves to market. They are pretty independent while travelling, although their diet has things like dates, plums, pomegranate, honey, that are much more likely to be found in orchards that have been cultivated for decades (or even centuries) than foraged on the treeless Dothraki Sea. The Dothraki do breed horses, so they are not entirely hunter-gather slavers/warriors. Horse breeding has always been a "vanity" form of grazing, though. Horses are not as useful as bullocks for pushing a plow or drey. They are just as thirsty, fussier eaters, they go lame very easily, they require more handlers, better trained handlers. But horses have always been about status as much as transportation. Rich people can afford them, and even people who couldn't afford a horse would dream of the freedom and power they could get from having a horse (eg. stealing a horse and becoming an highwayman - you can't outrun the law in a bullock drey.) So the horse trade has always been lucrative (at least, would be if they were sold for money rather than exchanged for more horses. And if they were not so fiddly and unpredictable and apt to be injured as a live stock.) But the Dothraki seem to gather horses to themselves rather than trade them. No wonder they live on horse flesh and blood pie. No wonder they drink fermented mare's milk all night. For every Khalassar there needs to be a hundred thriving villages of similar size. The Khalassars don't seem to raid so often as, say, a village a week. The village we are shown in AGoT Ch 61 Daenerys VII has offended the Dothraki (or at least Khal Drogo) by being north of the bend of the river (which is presumably the Lhazar, given Jorah's mention of Meereen, which is at the mouth of the Lhazar, and not Yunkai, even though he is talking specifically of selling sex slaves.) Khal Ogo may have attacked it for encroaching on the sacred Dothraki Sea. Or just killed their sheep for sport. We don't really know why Khal Drogo slew Khal Ogo and his son, either. Jorah Mormont was talking of how ten thousand slaves would purchase the ships to sail Drogo's Khalassar to Westeros, but he was saying things like that to Viserys all the time, and it doesn't explain why Drogo attacked Ogo. But it is clear that the Lhazarene villagers had not been attacked by the Dothraki before (or at least, not for a long time) and also that they were anticipating Dothraki attack, from the architecture. The village had an earthern wall that had been breached (we aren't told how). This indicates the Lhazarene had been living there long enough to build a great earthern wall. The square temple with its massive onion dome, and carved marble alter wasn't built in a day, either. Mirri wears fine-woven and richly embroidered wool, even though she owns no sheep. This shows us the village is prosperous and the highly collaborative Great Shepherd religion is respected. Or at least, Mirri is. Khal Ogo started by shooting sheep, outside the walls of the town. I am guessing that, sometimes, the Lhazarene have shelter behind earthern walls that were not breached, while the raiders plunder sheep and captives who were caught outside the walls. A Khalassar is not exactly stealthy. The villagers could see them approaching from the walls, from afar. Gathering behind the villiage walls is one survival strategy for a flock. Another is to scatter, letting the predator pass through, then regroup behind, like a shoal of fish. How many might have run away, scattering across the countryside, hoping the Khalassar passed some other way? How many shepherds were lucky enough to be guarding flocks well away from the path of the Khalassar? The boy Dany sees whipped by riders as he bolts for the river, ran too late, and died. His death shows us GRRM is making a direct parallel with Ser Gregor's raid on Darry lands at Mummer's Ford (The Mountain, who was also brought low by a non-fatal scratch, from Oberyn's spear, under his armpit). The attack was equally non-fatal for Darry, although the Lord Darry who ruled there, and his son, and his granson are gone, along with Goodwife Maerie, Maerie the Whore, Becca the Baker, Blind Wyl the Whittler, and thousands more (maybe as many as ten thousand more, when the Northmen and Lion men and Brave Companions and Black Brothers and Brothers without Banners that died at Mummer's Ford are included in the count). But there are still smallfolk at Darry. Still a daughter of Darry to rule them. Lord Darry's great bed has a straw pallet replacement, and the rafters are darkened by soot, but the Sept still stands. The wild area on the north side of the river is still good hunting, and while there was no harvest thanks to the reaving and razing, they planted some seeds on the off-chance that Winter would wait a little longer. Like the Lhazarene villiage, Darry and Sherrer were sacked, but not wiped off the map (as Wendish town may have been). Hopefully the Lhazarene that returned to/ survived in Mirri's villiage had more luck than the smallfolk of Darry with their crops. I think the Dothraki and the Lhazarene are like the Wildling raiders and the Clansmen of the North. They regard themselves as chalk and cheese, but there is more interaction between them than either side care to admit. Given all the raping, there must be a fair few Dothraki sons amid the sheep people. Presumably at least some Dothraki warriors value their sons, even if sired on Lhazarene girls. I don't think that explains the Red Lamb or the pit fighters, though. That has more to do with Meereen's fighting-pit culture, and being sold as a slave in Meereen. Tyrion and Penny ended up in the pit, and only Dany's reprieve saved them. Every now and then, as a matter of survival in Meereen's brutal slave culture, a Lhazarene needs must become a great fighter. Maybe Strong Belwas is of Lhazarene blood. He trained and became a great pit-fighter in Meereen, and had the good fortune to be purchased by Illyrio. But the training and the purchase were beyond his control. Like his castration, it is not as if he chose it for himself. He might never have known his native culture. The Red Lamb is an orphan in Meereen, old enough and untrained enough to recall a life before the fighting pits. But maybe his ferocity is a rejection of the peaceful culture that brought him to bondage and orphaned him. Just as Grey Worm regarded his birth name as accursed, and kept his last slave name for luck. The religion of the Great Shepherd, with its imagery of mankind as a great flock of sheep, suggests the Lhazarene are a numerous race. Their sedentry farming ways have given them great prosperity, in spite of the risk of Dothraki attacks. Which were rarely as effective as Khal Ogo's, with his wall-breach. The deal Dany brokered through Daario, for the Lhazarene to supply Meereen, shows us that there are still many Lhazarene in the hinterland behind Meereen, in spite of Dothraki raiders.
  10. Very interesting, but what does FS stand for?
  11. @Otatop1000 I should have given references (but it takes forever and I was tired/lazy). The "dream" of Shaggy attacking a unicorn is (ADwD Ch 3 Jon I) Jon was at Castle Black, on the south side of the wall. Ghost is running along the south side of the wall. Ghost notes that he can't sense Summer, and Jon affirms Summer was on the north side of the wall the last time they met. (ADwD Ch 29 Davos IV) @Gilbert Green, I agree that three years is plenty enough time to get from Pyke to Asshai and back, especially in a a fast ship like Silence. No blood sacrifice needed. But it seems odd to me that nobody has heard anything of Euron for three years, if he had been plundering the high seas in his distinctive ship. Euron's mention of Horse Lords has me suspicious. He isn't going to encounter anyone praying to be protected from Horse Lords on the high seas. Another thing I was too lazy/tired to bring up last night, I think some of Euron's men, disguised as "Tyroshi", turned up at the Merchant's House in Volantis while Tyrion was at breakfast. (ADwD Ch27 Tyrion VII) This is based mostly on Tyrion easily understanding their conversation, despite his perfunctory knowledge of Tyroshi. Also, his hopes that they were Duck and Haldon, who usually addressed him in the Common Tongue. Admittedly, their complaints about the ale are not complex, and Tyrion has enough Tyroshi to order a beer. We are not told what language they are speaking in when they cry "Dwarf fight!", unlike Penny, who specifically addresses the crowd in the Common Tongue. Although, that in itself suggests that she assumed that her audience understood the Common Tongue - an odd assumption if they were Tyroshi. And Penny has worked in Tyrosh, she could tell a Tyroshi accent from a Westerosi. And on the other hand, Tyrion is sensitive to the point of paranoia about his stature - he would be quick enough to understand the words "Dwarf fight" in any language. We have met a few explicitly "fake" Tyroshi already: The Blue Bard, Young Griff, the Ironborn crew that attempted to burn Oldtown according to the master of the Huntress. I also suspect Alios, the singer, of being a fake Tyroshi. (We have only heard him sing in High Valyrian). But I have my eye on these seamen at the Merchant's House, and possibly also the Tyroshi Brienne observes at the Stinking Goose. I think these are Ironborn spies, collecting intelligence for Euron. They are clearly not mute, but Euron might have acquired more ships in his raid. Euron returned to Pyke with a very active interest in Daenerys, presumably because of the Dragon Horn. But his choice was to get the Iron Fleet and Victarion out to Slavers Bay. I think he might have been paying attention to the political situation, knows the Golden Company are heading to Westeros captained by river pilots. Just like the battle of Fair Isle, he devises the plan and takes all the credit, while his bovine brother does the fighting. He knew the Tyrells and Redwynes and the sea-levies of Old Town are going to wipe out the Ironborn Lords in the Sheild Isles, that his current fleet will be decimated in Whispering Sound, no matter how powerful its wizard/blood sacrifice. But he seems quite convinced that doesn't matter. I am not sure how far south of Whispering Sound he intends to sail in the meantime. It would not surprise me if he turned tail and sailed far North instead. The winds are stronger, and the meridians smaller. The risks are greater, but, Euron. It seems to me his plunder could more likey come from the far north than the smoking seas of Valyria. His dragon horn looks a lot like Melisandre's Horn of Joramun. Walruses have tusks as well as elephants. And Skagos is the only place we have heard had unicorns.
  12. I took this as evidence that Euron was lying about the places he had been. I think he had settled for a while as a pirate king on Dagger Lake, stealing from other pirates, and merchants, what had been gathered from all over the world, plundering hordes gathered centuries earlier, not just in the three years (According to Asha) he has been absent. Euron speaks of it was the Horse gods that caught my attention. Was he talking of the Dothraki, whose sea is grass, who shun salt water, and drag the gods of all the world to Vaes Dothrak? Clearly, the Ibbenese are not especially concerned about Horselords, Westerosi know little of slavers, and the sellswords are concentrated in the Disputed Lands, where the economy of Tyrosh, Myr, Lys and Braavos fund their companies. Nobody much prays to be spared of them when they have slave armies of unsullied to defend them. Sellswords have spread into Westeros with the War of the Five Kings, but there is less demand for them east of Volantis, where the rich keep standing armies of slaves, and Westerosi smallfolk still identify even mecenaries with the Lords that sponser them, praying that Tywin's or Joffrey's mad dog does not descend on them, even when the butchery is done by the Brave Companions. Asshai has worshippers of the Red God, but so does nearly every town and city on Mother Rhoyne and her daughters. Euron may well have heard the prayers of merchants and pirates from Ib to Asshai on Dagger Lake, but more tellingly, he could have truck with Horselords there too. Apart from the Reader's quiet skepticism when Euron claims to have sailed the smoking seas, there are reasons to doubt Euron has sailed to Ibben or Asshai in the gifts he has to offer. Qohor is exceptional for its skills in the working of decorative armor and the reworking of Valyrian steel, according to Tobho Mott. The forest of Qohor has spotted tigers and lemures with silver fur. On her journey to Vaes Dothrak, Dany notes that below it there are ancient Valyrian roads, and the tumbled ruins of an ancient city of blackened marble, not far from a fast-running river with a blue waterfall. Later, Tyrion and Illyrio travel a Valyrian road into the Velvet Hills to the Little Rhoyne, and Ghoyan Drohe, a city of Rhoynish marble, still backened and desolate after dragonfire destroyed it. On their way, they come across a deep lake, once infested by robbers, and the next evening they see a Dragon Sphinx by their road, and the plinth from which her mate had been dragged away. Chests of nutmeg, cloves and saffron have spread everywhere from the Jade Seas to Westeros by the likes of the Qartheen Spicers, Thirteen, and Tourmaline Brotherhood. They have been at it for centuries. Spices are long-lasting, compact cargos that can be warehoused for seasons and traded when the price is right. There are steady streams of nutmeg and saffron and cloves and pepper to any place that likes to spice their wine and food. Chests like those are to be found everywhere, from the mysterious chrisms and smokes of religious devotees like Melisandre of Asshai, or retrieved from the wreck of the Sloe Eyed Maid in the bight, and the table of Godric Borrell of the Breakwater, on Sweetsister. From the Wall to the Jade Gates, and further. And, among these casks, is one of Shade of the Evening. As Euron tells Victarion: So that explains the spices, and the bolts of cloth as well. Xaros told Dany Before Davos is brought before Lord Godric, he hears the story of the Sloe-Eued Maid from out of Pentos Quhuru Mo of the Cinnamon Wind visited Dany on her first day in Qarth. When she asked if he came from the Summer Isles Now, the trade route to Qarth in the summer might not operate on the same timescale as the one from Qarth in the Autumn. In fact, Quhuru clarifies this But by the time the late apples have ripened in Oldtown, and Lazy Leo is eating his boar with a chestnut stuffing, three reports of Dany's dragons have arrived on the docks of Old Town (ADwD Prologue Pate). Later, Sam is saved by Xhondo, first mate of the Cinnamon Wind, and Quhuru Mo allows him to work his passage from Braavos to Oldtown, via Pentos, Tyrosh, the Stepstones. Maester Aemon dies a day's sail from the inhospitable Dornish coast. On Whispering Sound they encounter the remains of a battle. One of Euron's sails are sighted on a wreck, but the captain of the Huntress visits and tells them this attack came out of the Sheild Isles. A few days through the Redwyne Straights, and Cinnamon Wind is docked in Oldtown. So we have a rough timeline here. Back to the gifts: Tusks could come from Elephants in Volantis, or Mammoths from the far north. They might have culled the beasts that year or found an ancient hoard. Unicorn horns are a different matter. These have turned up in the heirlooms of the free folk beyond the wall, and if Jon's dream of Shaggy slaying the unicorn was contemporaneous, they still live on Skagos, at least, until that morning. Like the ancient Valyrian hell-horn, these could come from anywhere in the Valyrian Freehold, and anywhere they could travel in the centuries since its decline. The least likely place to find these combustible things? The site of active volcanoes. Another reason to suspect Crow's Eye's claim is the lack of reports of attacks. Clearly, Euron has done some sucessful wealth-gathering. Found some rare and ancient and very specific antiquities. But until he arrives in Pyke, there is no rumour of him anywhere. It makes sense that he might have painted his deck and his sail only very recently, and hid in plain sight as a pirate in an area infested with pirates. Only, not quite. If Euron set up in the Stepstones, for example, the likes of Sallador Saan and Aurane, and the trade captains of Illyrio and Baelish, transports for the Golden Company, are going to recognise the cut of Euron's jib regardless of his colors. However, he could smuggle himself up the foggy sorrows, replacing the current Shrowded Lord and taking over his vessels easily enough. In Storm of Swords, after Lord Tywin resumes his place as Hand in the early Autumn/late summer, after Balon has taken the North and crowned himself and offered alliance to Tywin, Varys attempts to squeeze some international affairs in at the end of a packed meeting of the small council. (ASoS, Ch 19 Tyrion III) This could be Euron returning via the Stepstones, while everyone else is preoccupied with their wars. He might have found old maps or new navigation tools that emboldened him to sail beyond sight of the Western shore, a feat that Victarion equates with ungodly madness, something no sane ship owner would do. Or perhaps that was a result of his visions from Shade of the Evening.e
  13. Waymar also has excellent reasoning skills, although he lacked the instincts of Will and Gared, and was unnecessarily nasty to Gared, and seemed to be playing favourites, and other obnoxiously arrogant games that serve to divide a team of only three unnecessarily. His fight was hopeless, but brave. Ironically, Gared was the one he saved - until Gared got caught on the wrong side of the wall, that is.
  14. . I don't share your implied belief in his noble mein (my guess is that he arrived at Selhorys with assistance from Yunkai- or at least, the sellswords that remained loyal to Yunkai, and that his horse came from Khal Pono, and he has done deals with and advised both, and Pono is going to burn Selhorys, and if he doesn't get her assassinated on the third attempt, he plans to have Dany as his slave - or possibly, in his mind, to recapture his slave, the dragon queen,) but there is no denying Ser Jorah's ability to fight, to plan, perhaps to lead? The question mark is because I don't see many instances of him leading, aside from cruelly dragging Tyrion in chains along the harbor in Volantis. Or his nominal command of the Unsullied and the freed slave companies of Astapor and Yunkai, as Dany's First Sword. (Although, from the first, Blue Worm commands the Unsullied, and the Freedmen have elected leaders, and none of the sellsword companies show any sign of acknowledging Jorah as their supreme commander or anyones commander. But the former slaves are more deferential. Jorah was born the son of a minor Lord under the aegis of House Stark. But far enough from Winterfell to regard himself as the heir to all he could see, and therefore entitled to the wives and daughters of other men. He doesn't lead in battle either. He was behind Thoros into the breach at Pyke. He despises any kind of foolhardy valiance as a mercenary fighter. But even in non-fighting roles: He was more a useful hanger-on than a member of Khal Drogo's khalasar, more a fixer than a plenipotentiary at Dany's engagement party. He betrays Eddard Stark's rule by selling citizens to slavers. He betrays King Robert, who knighted him, by taking up the Targaryen cause in exile. He fought with the Titan's bastard against Braavos in the disputed lands for slavers coin. Leaving his wife to debt and slavery, returning with only enough coin to keep his sword and his horse, with some negotiation. He takes the role of Viserys's valet, and betrays him, leading directly to his death (How could he have had access to his sword if Jorah had been acting in his interest? How would he even know there were new sellswords to plot with in the caravan, if Jorah had not told him?) I think the wineseller was probably a contact of Petyr Baelish, and Jorah's involvement in that was limited to being tipped off by Varys to the existance of the King's contract (although, given the main prize was a Lordship in Westeros, I can't help thinking that Baelish was targeting Jorah specifically when he drafted it). Still, the man is obsessed with selling Dany's dragon eggs (much more so than Viserys ever was), and once they hatched, there was the assassination attempt by the Sorry Man (that Arstan thwarted, to Jorah's chagrin). At Yunkai, Jorah's advice was against attacking 'early' or employing Daario and the Stormcrows at all. He was the first to return from the battle outside Yunkai, but he has positive knowledge on Grazdan having returned to Yunkai with terms, and Mero fleeing when the Stormcrows turned. I believe he let them escape. It defies belief that a "towering" green-eyed ginger already known to Jorah (and Arstan) could just melt into her freedmen by shaving his beard. And Jorah's reaction to Mero's assassination attempt is just too free of personal accountability. Not to mention, he tries to turn this into proof of Barristan betraying her, again. There is no doubting his intelligence, his competence, his military skills, but he only leads slaves. He has long form for selling free people into slavery, and for slave trading, over and over. He has betrayed his leiges and employers over and over (Eddard, Robert, Viserys, Varys, Illyrio, his father). He has influential connexions aplenty, but no friends that I can see. I suspect the reason we never see him leading free men is because he would only lead them into slavery. He is coming back (Dany owes him a dragon-forged sword, and there are plenty of other signs that his business with her is unfinished). We know from the way he rudely shouldered through the Red God's service, and from the mutual contempt in his exchange with the Widow of the Waterfront, that he is not working for R'hollr or for the pro-Dany resistance. We know he still feels entitled to just enslave people, by his taking of Tyrion. As a "gift" for the Breaker of Chains. Voraggo's widow explains his inconsistencies. Tyrion blasts the plan, as far as he is able to put it together from what Jorah says. Jorah isn't joining the Gold Company to fight under a Targaryen banner for Westeros and regain his home and lordship, as he once claimed to Dany was his heart's desire. He isn't interested in being recruited by the Yunkai or the Volantenes to join the battle against Dany, either. It has become important to Jorah to get to Meereen with Tyrion before anyone else does. I don't think his smouldering resentment against the "little fool" is abated, and every time Dany convinces herself that he is "her bear" and protector, I feel she has earnt the epithet. His failure to spot, prevent, stop the assassination attempts on her show me he is, at the very least, an ill-chosen Queensguard. His habitual turn of cloak makes him an inherently unreliable protector. Tyrion also attributes loving feelings to Jorah's behaviour re. Dany. He notes that Jorah is crushed when he learns that Dany has married Hizdhar "He came too late". But too late for what? Jorah was never going to marry Dany. Technically, his wife still lives. And Dany would never. Not only because she has no desire for him - Hizdhar shows us she can marry without desire, if Drogo didn't. Dany is a queen. Her heart might be tempted by the notion of marrying a cut-throat sell-sword like Daario, but her subjects ... she would never voluntarily make such a lousy dynastic choice. Jorah is absolutely a worse choice even than Daario, who for all his women, does not seem to have taken any wives. No, I think the reason he came too late is because he arrived after the Yunkai had signed the peace. Before that, his worth as an envoy for the Yunkai and Daenerys was incalculable. After, it was nothing. Hizdhar had won Meereen. But by the time he found his way to Brown Ben's camp, Jorah could see that it was going to be war, and could assess very nicely the chances of both the city and the beseigers. Fighting is what he knows, slaving is what he knows, cloak-turning is what he knows. The widow of the Waterfront thinks he is after dragons. I think she might be right. Daenerys is not on the scene, it is Barristan that leads the council. Jorah has his personal grievances against Barry (for so presumptuously saving Dany's life under a false name) but he also has a general loathing for the high honour of Lords like Barristan (and Eddard Stark). He seems to have more respect for Rhaegar, at least to Dany's face. But even then, he is the one who reminds her 'Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died." Not a hero, but definitely underrated.
  15. There's two types of people in this world, believers and skeptics. Tyrion is a skeptic He will look for rational causes for magical mysteries. Jon Snow is a skeptic, and Waymar Royce. Theon starts a skeptic who becomes a believer. His skeptical reasoning shows through in his superb tracking skills Stannis seems to be a skeptic too, although we see Stannis mostly through the eyes of people like Davos and Caitlyn, who are believers. We know dragons are real in Planetos. Wights exist. And giants. And Children of the Forest. The weirnet keeps BR alive. Skinchangers are a thing. But not everything represented to us as magic defies the laws of nature. The Gods do not seem to intervene in planetary affairs, even when they are begged to by the faithful. Even though they speak to Davos and Theon. In Theon's case, you could argue he heard Bran, not the Gods. Not that that makes it easier to rationally explain. I believe there are rational explanations for the deaths of Renly and Ser Cortnay Penrose, although you won't learn them from Melisandre or Davos, who believe in magical shadow assassins. Even though Melisandre must know the truth at some level - the glamours, potions, and magic smokes must have come from her. In real life, the most profound skeptics are the ones who lay claim to divine magical powers. They know they rely on the trust and credulity of their mark, and various tricks and sleights of hand. Pyat Pree, Mirri Maz Duur, the Green Grace, Benerro, Moqorro, Aeron, should all be skeptics. But of the clergy, only Thoros is an avowed skeptic, and only until Lord Beric rose. I suppose the Kindly Man is also a skeptic in most ways,too. When Qaithe touches Dany, some of what she says sounds like the skeptical view of a shrewd politician. when you think about it, it is not impossible to catch a kracken in a common fishing net. It is just that krakens don't usually swim so close to the surface, and are so large and strong, a sensible crew would cut the net away rather than risk the boat going down with the kraken. Waking fire from dragonglass is a skill every maester of the citidel has failed to master, except Marwyn, but to Qaithe it is a basic thing she would have expected a street entertainer to have mastered. Not a trick, but not a great skill that drew on deep wisdom and learning, either. Qaithe, like Pyat Pree and the Green Grace, humors Dany. Although we can catch Pyat smiling and the Green Grace sighing at her ignorance, and I don't think Qaithe has done that. We know Maester Luwin and Melisandre keep bits of magic up their sleeves. When Hallyne talks of "protective spells" Tyrion starts looking for trap doors and counterweights. The tingling might have been mothing more than Dany's share of the rap Jhogo gave Qaithe's hand to break her grip. Or Qaithe might have had some tingling potion on her hand to give that effect. Or, it could have been a pschosomatic response from Dany, who really just wants an excuse to visit Pyatt Pree.
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