Bloodraven's relations with Daeron II

[Valens]

Ok, as I understood it, BR was trusted by Daeron and I think Daeron liked him. For that, Brynden repaid him with loyalty. I think it began with Melissa Blackwood being liked and befriended by Daeron and his mother and his uncle Aemon. So, when Brynden was born, he wasn't sent away, he stayed at the court-unlike his two older bastard half-brothers. Because Daena was as headstrong as she was, she was seen as a liability by both Aegon and the others at court, so she couldn't be there, nor her son. Barba wasn't liked by Daeron or Aemon, obviously, so she and her son were sent away. But Melissa was the first mistress to "pass the test" and win the friendship of the other three most important members of the court. Anyway, I imagine that it was also because of his albinism that Daeron pitied Brynden and he encouraged his father to let him stay in KL and at the court. I don't think there are any details about this, is there? Even though Melissa was eventually replaced, ironically by Barba's sister, Brynden obviously didn't go back with her to Raventree Hall, or did he? Anyway, Daeron knew he could count on his support and he knew he was a shrewd and capable man. He knew he'd make a fine Hand for him one day. That is also why he kept him there, plus they were half-brothers after all. It is possible that Daeron also persuaded Aegon to give Brynden Dark Sister, because he didn't think Bittersteel was worthy of it or he just didn't want him to get it. He knew how Bittersteel felt about him, there couldn't have been much love between them either and he knew he hated Brynden, whom he obviously liked. So, Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven is unique in that he was the only male bastard of Aegon to be able to maintain his place in KL, constantly. Of course, it didn't hurt that Daeron was bookish and so was BR. He'd always prefer a guy like BR as his Hand than a martial guy like Daemon. Who didn't wanna be a Hand anyway.

[LIVIA]

I heard a crazy theory that he is actually the son of his: thus Daeron revenged Aegon for spreading disgraceful rumors about his mother. That's why Brynden doesn't call Shiera his sister in TDWD:))

If to speak seriously, we can speculate with more or less cernainty only about Daeron's attitude to Brynden. The fact that he gave him the only remaining ancestral sword of the Targaryens and the sword of his late beloved uncle (!) can tell much. He apparently was strongly attached to him, valued him highly for his special talents and gave him wide powers, especially after BfR. He could also be a sourse of moral support for the albino boy: in contrast to the the rest of their brothers, they both were not that imposing and had problems winning love and respect from other people.

But Brynden himself could serve him only because of the prophecy or some other mystical stuff concerning PtwP. However, I still hope Brynden meant him speaking about the brother that he loved in TDWD.

[Lord Varys]

On 7.7.2016 at 11:23 PM, Valens said:

Ok, as I understood it, BR was trusted by Daeron and I think Daeron liked him. For that, Brynden repaid him with loyalty. I think it began with Melissa Blackwood being liked and befriended by Daeron and his mother and his uncle Aemon. So, when Brynden was born, he wasn't sent away, he stayed at the court-unlike his two older bastard half-brothers.

I don't think this was the case. Brynden was born in 175 AC, and was thus only two years old when Melissa was replaced by Bethany. Considering his age it is more than likely that he and his sister Mya and Gwenys accompanied their mother to Raventree Hall. Perhaps Aegon IV eventually allowed him to court later during his reign but considering that the boy would only have been about nine years old when Aegon IV died that's not all that likely.

Therefore it is not unlikely that Daeron II called Brynden to court and allowed him to live there, not Aegon IV. But we do know that Aegon IV had bestowed certain incomes on his acknowledged bastard, suggesting that both Brynden and Aegor had received certain favors from their royal father.

On 7.7.2016 at 11:23 PM, Valens said:

Because Daena was as headstrong as she was, she was seen as a liability by both Aegon and the others at court, so she couldn't be there, nor her son.

That makes no sense. Daena the Defiant remained unmarried throughout her short life, and we have no idea where she should have lived if not at the Red Keep. Daemon Waters is the only bastard of Aegon IV who most definitely lived at court. Aegor Rivers is confirmed to have lived at Stone Hedge in 177 AC, and we can assume that the quick downfall of House Bracken in the wake of the Bethany-Toyne scandal certainly put both Barbra and Aegor in a very bad position.

On 7.7.2016 at 11:23 PM, Valens said:

Barba wasn't liked by Daeron or Aemon, obviously, so she and her son were sent away.

Not surprising considering that Aegor was still an infant when Barbra was forced to leave court.

On 7.7.2016 at 11:23 PM, Valens said:

But Melissa was the first mistress to "pass the test" and win the friendship of the other three most important members of the court. Anyway, I imagine that it was also because of his albinism that Daeron pitied Brynden and he encouraged his father to let him stay in KL and at the court. I don't think there are any details about this, is there? Even though Melissa was eventually replaced, ironically by Barba's sister, Brynden obviously didn't go back with her to Raventree Hall, or did he?

See above. That's not very likely. What's likely, though, is that Daeron II befriended Bloodraven because he and the Dragonknight had also befriended his mother. Melissa would have been Brynden's ticket into Daeron II's inner circle. And it is pretty clear that Daeron II must have given Dark Sister to Bloodraven. During most of the Unworthy's reign the sword was Aemon's, and Aegon IV had no reason whatsoever to give the sword to a nine-year-old boy in the last year of his reign.

And while there are hints that Daeron II and Brynden were reasonably close, Daeron II did prefer his son Baelor as his Hand, not Bloodraven. Although I'm inclined to believe that Bloodraven served Daeron II as Master of Whisperers since the end of the Blackfyre Rebellion. Aerys I then also made him Hand but it is quite clear that Bloodraven is both Hand and Master of Whisperers in 211 AC.

4 hours ago, LIVIA said:

But Brynden himself could serve him only because of the prophecy or some other mystical stuff concerning PtwP. However, I still hope Brynden meant him speaking about the brother that he loved in TDWD.

There is no other option there. The idea that Bloodraven might have loved Daemon, Aegor, Balerion, or some lowborn son of Aegon IV makes no sense. TWoIaF made it quite clear that Bloodraven and Daeron II were even closer than previously assumed, and it would be pretty odd if Bloodraven didn't love Daeron II in light of the fact that he most likely gave him Dark Sister.

If Bloodraven had loved Daemon Blackfyre he most certainly wouldn't have treated Daemon's children the way he did. He would have tried to find a more peaceful solution.

[LIVIA]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If Bloodraven had loved Daemon Blackfyre he most certainly wouldn't have treated Daemon's children the way he did. He would have tried to find a more peaceful solution.

He couldn't love Daemon simply because a man who made a proposal to his sister for half a hundred times and whose hatred to his rival resulted into a bloody war couldn't just go and shoot his beloved brother and his children for the good of the realm or something else. Bloodraven was a great statesman, yes, but he was a human too. And GRRM describes him as a human who loves, hates and couples. So I can only laugh at the thought that he killed his sweet Daemon with tears in his eyes. As to the rest of Aegon's sons, we don't have any serious informarion about them. The only possibility for Daeron not being the beloved brother is that it was a member of the NW.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think this was the case. Brynden was born in 175 AC, and was thus only two years old when Melissa was replaced by Bethany. Considering his age it is more than likely that he and his sister Mya and Gwenys accompanied their mother to Raventree Hall. Perhaps Aegon IV eventually allowed him to court later during his reign but considering that the boy would only have been about nine years old when Aegon IV died that's not all that likely.

Therefore it is not unlikely that Daeron II called Brynden to court and allowed him to live there, not Aegon IV. But we do know that Aegon IV had bestowed certain incomes on his acknowledged bastard, suggesting that both Brynden and Aegor had received certain favors from their royal father.

That makes no sense. Daena the Defiant remained unmarried throughout her short life, and we have no idea where she should have lived if not at the Red Keep. Daemon Waters is the only bastard of Aegon IV who most definitely lived at court. Aegor Rivers is confirmed to have lived at Stone Hedge in 177 AC, and we can assume that the quick downfall of House Bracken in the wake of the Bethany-Toyne scandal certainly put both Barbra and Aegor in a very bad position.

Not surprising considering that Aegor was still an infant when Barbra was forced to leave court.

See above. That's not very likely. What's likely, though, is that Daeron II befriended Bloodraven because he and the Dragonknight had also befriended his mother. Melissa would have been Brynden's ticket into Daeron II's inner circle. And it is pretty clear that Daeron II must have given Dark Sister to Bloodraven. During most of the Unworthy's reign the sword was Aemon's, and Aegon IV had no reason whatsoever to give the sword to a nine-year-old boy in the last year of his reign.

And while there are hints that Daeron II and Brynden were reasonably close, Daeron II did prefer his son Baelor as his Hand, not Bloodraven. Although I'm inclined to believe that Bloodraven served Daeron II as Master of Whisperers since the end of the Blackfyre Rebellion. Aerys I then also made him Hand but it is quite clear that Bloodraven is both Hand and Master of Whisperers in 211 AC.

There is no other option there. The idea that Bloodraven might have loved Daemon, Aegor, Balerion, or some lowborn son of Aegon IV makes no sense. TWoIaF made it quite clear that Bloodraven and Daeron II were even closer than previously assumed, and it would be pretty odd if Bloodraven didn't love Daeron II in light of the fact that he most likely gave him Dark Sister.

If Bloodraven had loved Daemon Blackfyre he most certainly wouldn't have treated Daemon's children the way he did. He would have tried to find a more peaceful solution.

All excellent points. I would only disagree with the last one. I believe the brother he loved was Daemon Blackfyre, almost purely for the elegance of the love, hate, and desire feelings corresponding to the other three great bastards. However, there is, as @Lord Varys lays out, much more evidence to suggest that the brother he loved was Daeron II. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

33 minutes ago, LIVIA said:

He couldn't love Daemon simply because a man who made a proposal to his sister for half a hundred times and whose hatred to his rival resulted into a bloody war couldn't just go and shoot his beloved brother and his children for the good of the realm or something else. Bloodraven was a great statesman, yes, but he was a human too. And GRRM describes him as a human who loves, hates and couples. So I can only laugh at people who think he killed his sweet Daemon with tears in his eyes. As to the rest of Aegon's sons, we don't have any serious informarion about them. The only possibility for Daeron not being the beloved brother is that it was a member of the NW.

Laugh away

[Lord Varys]

38 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

All excellent points. I would only disagree with the last one. I believe the brother he loved was Daemon Blackfyre, almost purely for the elegance of the love, hate, and desire feelings corresponding to the other three great bastards. However, there is, as @Lord Varys lays out, much more evidence to suggest that the brother he loved was Daeron II. 

Why should the great bastards be seen as some special group? Daemon, Aegor, Brynden, and Shiera aren't all of them. Bellegere's and Meg's children also belong to that group, as do the children Aegon fathered on the Butterwell girls. And one assumes he fucked many other noble women during his life who gave him children. He just didn't recognize all them. But Daemon Blackfyre and the children of his official mistresses most certainly aren't all the natural children the man recognized. The man claims to have fucked about 900 women in his lifetime, and one guesses that many of them were of noble birth.

From Brynden's point of view Daeron II was as much his brother as Aegor, Daemon, Balerion, and any other son of Aegon's. In fact, Daeron II might be a closer brother to him in his mind than the likes of Daemon and Aegor, the latter of whom he most likely despised from the start.

[Shuvuuia]

tbh, i think the whole "brother he loved" thing is skrewed by the worldbuilding: on the one hand, Daemon is more likely because it suits the tragedy narrative (and i can totally see Bloodraven offing his brother's offspring. he thinks he loved his brother, doesn't mean it is what the reader would call love. Stannis loved Robert in his own way, yet considered burning Edric) ,

on the other hand, it would seem so strange that he didn't feel anything about Daeron who did so much for him and didn't even mentioned him at all ("the brother who loved me" or something). 

so, I think it is intended to be Daemon, but because we know more abour Daeron and his relations with Bloodraven's mother and Bloodraven himself, it looks like Daeron suits better. 

I guess non-martial Daeron would also be sympathetic towards Brynden, who was less physically impressive than Aegor and Daemon, and other warriors

[LIVIA]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Laugh away

Sorry, didn't mean to insult you.  Not at people, of course, but at such point of view)

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 minutes ago, LIVIA said:

Sorry, don't meant to insult you.  Not at people, of course, but at such point of view)

No worries. I wasn't offended. 

[Lord Varys]

39 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

tbh, i think the whole "brother he loved" thing is skrewed by the worldbuilding: on the one hand, Daemon is more likely because it suits the tragedy narrative (and i can totally see Bloodraven offing his brother's offspring. he thinks he loved his brother, doesn't mean it is what the reader would call love. Stannis loved Robert in his own way, yet considered burning Edric).

I really don't get that. What 'tragedy' are you talking about? We have no reason to believe the Blackfyre Rebellion was all that tragic. Sort of, because Daemon and Daeron II didn't get along, but there is no reason to draw Brynden into all that.

In addition, Bloodraven certainly would know what 'love' is. The man probably watched a hundred thousand love stories during his time as greenseer. He would have been very aware of his own feelings, especially since he actually can watch himself, Daeron II, Daemon, Aegor, and Shiera whenever he so chooses.

The idea that Bloodraven is as aware of his own feelings (or as twisted emotionally) as Stannis doesn't make much sense. And Stannis is on record saying that he did, in fact, not love Robert. He makes that very plain when they write the letter. He is so aware of his own feelings that he only realizes that he loved Renly after he had the man killed.

There is no indication that Bloodraven was as dysfunctional emotionally. And also keep in mind that nothing about Bloodraven's personality suggests that he stuck with Daeron II because he felt he was 'the rightful king'. We don't know anything about his motivations but I'd say that the best chance is that he simply liked Daeron II much better than either Daemon or Aegor.

Bloodraven's later murder of Aenys Blackfyre simply isn't anything a man actually loving Daemon would do. He either would have allowed him to speak or would have thrown him into a cell, but he wouldn't have executed him. And the same goes for Bloodraven targeting the twins on the Redgrass Field. You don't do something like that to the children of a man you allegedly love. A man who, most likely, was just led astray by 'evil men' (like Aegor).

39 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

on the other hand, it would seem so strange that he didn't feel anything about Daeron who did so much for him and didn't even mentioned him at all ("the brother who loved me" or something).

The other aspect of this is that Brynden is speaking as a dying tree man here. Why would he refer to Daemon as the brother whom he loved when he actually grew to hate the man? Presumably he must have gotten over the love thing or else he wouldn't have killed him. Now, if Bloodraven had once loved Daemon and this had been publicly known it would have been part of the Redgrass Field legend Ser Eustace tells us. Bloodraven wouldn't be just the evil sorcerer, he would also be the evil betrayer of the heroic Daemon. But he isn't portrayed as such a person.

39 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

so, I think it is intended to be Daemon, but because we know more abour Daeron and his relations with Bloodraven's mother and Bloodraven himself, it looks like Daeron suits better.

Well, since there is no reason to even think it refers to Daemon that's a very weird way to argue. You cannot treat a presupposition/theory that is completely unsupported by the text as a likely scenario and ignore all the evidence to the contrary.

Bloodraven's entire career suggests he hated the Blackfyres and their supporters and what they stood for (treason). If he had loved Daemon he would have reacted more like Maekar did after he had killed Baelor, not continued to kill as many Blackfyres as he could. One would also expect him to try to heal the rift between the Targaryens and Blackfyres rather than deepen it.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Shuvuuia said:

tbh, i think the whole "brother he loved" thing is skrewed by the worldbuilding: on the one hand, Daemon is more likely because it suits the tragedy narrative (and i can totally see Bloodraven offing his brother's offspring. he thinks he loved his brother, doesn't mean it is what the reader would call love. Stannis loved Robert in his own way, yet considered burning Edric) ,

on the other hand, it would seem so strange that he didn't feel anything about Daeron who did so much for him and didn't even mentioned him at all ("the brother who loved me" or something). 

so, I think it is intended to be Daemon, but because we know more abour Daeron and his relations with Bloodraven's mother and Bloodraven himself, it looks like Daeron suits better. 

I guess non-martial Daeron would also be sympathetic towards Brynden, who was less physically impressive than Aegor and Daemon, and other warriors

If there was a like button, I would have clicked it. 

[Shuvuuia]

20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I really don't get that. What 'tragedy' are you talking about? We have no reason to believe the Blackfyre Rebellion was all that tragic. Sort of, because Daemon and Daeron II didn't get along, but there is no reason to draw Brynden into all that.

Then why does he mention the brother he loved in that context (but not his blackwood sisters or mother, whom he probably loved too), as something tragic? Shiera is the woman he desired but she never agreed to marry him, Aegor is the man he hated and this hatred was with them their whole life - both are his "ghosts" who still haunt him, his regrets, and Daeron? - Bloodraven served him and his sons faithfully. Why does that haunt him? (maybe he does regret some of his political decisions, but all the kings he served were grownups, who could've resisted him if they wanted) 

20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

In addition, Bloodraven certainly would know what 'love' is. The man probably watched a hundred thousand love stories during his time as greenseer. He would have been very aware of his own feelings, especially since he actually can watch himself, Daeron II, Daemon, Aegor, and Shiera whenever he so chooses.

The idea that Bloodraven is as aware of his own feelings (or as twisted emotionally) as Stannis doesn't make much sense. And Stannis is on record saying that he did, in fact, not love Robert. He makes that very plain when they write the letter. He is so aware of his own feelings that he only realizes that he loved Renly after he had the man killed.

I didn't mean it as that he doesn't know what love is or that he is exactly like Stannis (Wasn't Stannis not loving Robert show only? As far as i remember he mentioned loving him to Jon when talking about Robb), but that love can have different meanings to different people. One can think they love someone, but don't give a heck about their children. Bloodraven could've loved Daemon but loved the order better (i'm not saying it is 100%fact, but as a possibility)

20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

There is no indication that Bloodraven was as dysfunctional emotionally. And also keep in mind that nothing about Bloodraven's personality suggests that he stuck with Daeron II because he felt he was 'the rightful king'. We don't know anything about his motivations but I'd say that the best chance is that he simply liked Daeron II much better than either Daemon or Aegor.

Bloodraven's later murder of Aenys Blackfyre simply isn't anything a man actually loving Daemon would do. He either would have allowed him to speak or would have thrown him into a cell, but he wouldn't have executed him. And the same goes for Bloodraven targeting the twins on the Redgrass Field. You don't do something like that to the children of a man you allegedly love. A man who, most likely, was just led astray by 'evil men' (like Aegor).

Well, yes we don't know his motivations, that's why i think multiple options should be considered. I don't think it was only about the duty (but he was certainly dutiful at serving targaryens), but if for example, he was certain that the blackfyres would win unless he kills Daemon and his sons at the redgrass - which means almost all targs including the children would have to die,btw - ,then he could've decided that winning is more important than his love to Daemon. And i don't really see that much problem with killing Aenys (from bloodraven perspective), Daemon was long time ago by that point.

20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, since there is no reason to even think it refers to Daemon that's a very weird way to argue. You cannot treat a presupposition/theory that is completely unsupported by the text as a likely scenario and ignore all the evidence to the contrary.

but there are two options - either Daemon or Daeron, and the main books don't give much clues to who the brother was, so i think it is good to look at both options. (Did anyone ever tried to ask grrm himself about it?)

and i don't ignore the evidence for Daeron, i think it is quite good, but the author really loves his relatives kill relatives trope, and the wording of that line suggests more intense pain than "my brother Daeron loved me, i loved him and served him and his sons faithfully". Again, why would that haunt him as much as Shiera and Aegor?

20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Bloodraven's entire career suggests he hated the Blackfyres and their supporters and what they stood for (treason). If he had loved Daemon he would have reacted more like Maekar did after he had killed Baelor, not continued to kill as many Blackfyres as he could. One would also expect him to try to heal the rift between the Targaryens and Blackfyres rather than deepen it.

but Maekar killed Baelor by accident, while bloodraven intentionally, he probably justified it to himself

[Lord Varys]

13 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

Then why does he mention the brother he loved in that context (but not his blackwood sisters or mother, whom he probably loved too), as something tragic?

Well, because George decided that he would only mention people the reader of ADwD would know existed? We had no clue about Bloodraven's sisters at this point. And women are usually overlooked/not mentioned all that often (I'm looking at you, Lyarra Stark).

I addition, you are over-interpreting things there. Bloodraven doesn't necessarily talk about dead people he had some conflicts with. Bran himself intuitively looks for Ned when he first connects with the weirwoods. That doesn't mean he is haunted by Ned in some negative fashion, it means that he misses his father and would prefer it that he wasn't dead. Just as Brynden might still miss his elder brother/surrogate father, Daeron II. Who knows? Perhaps Bloodraven was at his bedside and wept when the Great Spring Sickness took Daeron II in 209 AC? That's not far-fetched. He was in the capital when his brother and king died.

He could even believe he failed Daeron II then and there because despite his magical abilities he couldn't save him from death.

13 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

Shiera is the woman he desired but she never agreed to marry him, Aegor is the man he hated and this hatred was with them their whole life - both are his "ghosts" who still haunt him, his regrets, and Daeron? - Bloodraven served him and his sons faithfully. Why does that haunt him? (maybe he does regret some of his political decisions, but all the kings he served were grownups, who could've resisted him if they wanted) 

Is Shiera truly the woman he 'desired'? She is the woman he fucked, more than just once, it seems, considering that she is his paramour. She didn't marry him, true, but he did more than just desire her. George most likely chose the word 'desire' there because he already used 'love' for the relationship with the brother. But it isn't actually accurate, although it might indicate that Bloodraven did, in the end, actually not love Shiera (or get over her later in life).

As to why Daeron II might have thought he might have failed Daeron II see above. However, the political aspect certainly has to be considered as well. He might have felt that the later Blackfyre Rebellions were his fault, too, or that he was unworthy/incapable of filling the shoes left by Daeron II and Baelor Breakspear. Keep in mind that we know that the Realm is much more unstable during the reign of Aerys I than it was during the reign of the Good King.

13 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

I didn't mean it as that he doesn't know what love is or that he is exactly like Stannis (Wasn't Stannis not loving Robert show only? As far as i remember he mentioned loving him to Jon when talking about Robb), but that love can have different meanings to different people. One can think they love someone, but don't give a heck about their children. Bloodraven could've loved Daemon but loved the order better (i'm not saying it is 100%fact, but as a possibility).

A not very likely possibility considering that love usually influences your actions to a degree. I don't see myself killing (at least) three children of a person I love. Not if I can prevent it. And my love would most likely not lead me to the conclusion that such children all have to die for 'reasons of state'.

Stannis does indeed make it clear in ACoK that Robert wasn't his 'beloved brother' and that Jaime is Ser Jaime Lannister the Kingslayer. The should included the former part. Stannis later also talks about 'loving' Robert but he sort of sucks up to Jon in ADwD. He never mentions that he threatened he told Catelyn to her face that he would kill Robb or that he used a blood magic spell to try to bring about Robb's death. Stannis' relationship with Robert would be complex but I think we can be reasonably sure that his 'brotherly love' was at best dutiful. The man left Robert to Cersei's mercy and later intended to kill the children Robert had recognized as his own. That's pretty sick. Not to mention that he actually arranged Renly's murder.

13 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

Well, yes we don't know his motivations, that's why i think multiple options should be considered. I don't think it was only about the duty (but he was certainly dutiful at serving targaryens), but if for example, he was certain that the blackfyres would win unless he kills Daemon and his sons at the redgrass - which means almost all targs including the children would have to die,btw - ,then he could've decided that winning is more important than his love to Daemon. And i don't really see that much problem with killing Aenys (from bloodraven perspective), Daemon was long time ago by that point.

I'm not sure how Bloodraven could have known that the deaths of Daemon and his sons were necessary. That is pretty extreme. And the same goes for Aenys - the time passing between the two events wouldn't have mattered if Bloodraven was actually 'haunted' by his love for Daemon.

And whether Bloodraven was a dutiful servant to the kings her served actually remains to be seen. Right now it doesn't seem as if he ever tried to usurp Maekar's place and become king himself but we'll have to wait and see how that plays out.

13 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

but there are two options - either Daemon or Daeron, and the main books don't give much clues to who the brother was, so i think it is good to look at both options. (Did anyone ever tried to ask grrm himself about it?)

Daemon had little chance of befriending Brynden Rivers. As I've laid out above it is likely that Brynden spent most of his time at Raventree Hall during his childhood. At least during the reign of his father. Daemon Blackfyre was five years older, and would thus most likely not have been a close companion of Brynden's even if they had grown up together at court. After the great bastards all lived at court during the reign of Daeron II Aegor and Daemon grew ever closer, making it unlikely that Daemon and Brynden ever had a close connection, especially in light of Brynden's own close relationship with Daeron II. He might even have gotten Dark Sister before the Blackfyre Rebellion.

If TWoIaF had given us any hint that Brynden and Daemon were close for some time before the war I'd be the first to concede that this theory is at least plausible. But there are no such hints.

13 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

and i don't ignore the evidence for Daeron, i think it is quite good, but the author really loves his relatives kill relatives trope, and the wording of that line suggests more intense pain than "my brother Daeron loved me, i loved him and served him and his sons faithfully". Again, why would that haunt him as much as Shiera and Aegor?

There is no hint that he is haunted by his ghosts in equal parts, is there? Daeron II certainly could be the person who troubles him the least, followed by Aegor whom he most likely would have liked to kill before the Blackfyre Rebellion to prevent the whole thing, with Shiera being the person troubling the most because there was actually romantic love involved as far as we know.

13 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

but Maekar killed Baelor by accident, while bloodraven intentionally, he probably justified it to himself

Stannis justifies the murder of Renly, too. But this doesn't make it go away. It is a vile crime to kill your brother in Westeros, even more so if you loved the brother you killed. Continuing the trend of kinslaying but killing both your brother and your nephews isn't something you would expect from a man who loved his brother. In fact, there is no precedent for this kind of behavior in Westeros.

[The Grey Wolf]

@Lord Varys

On the whole Daemon/Daeron thing:

Here are some explanations of why it is better for Daemon to have been the brother Bloodraven loved and why it can make sense:

http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/151150103696/going-through-the-bloodraven-tag-and-i-have-to

http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/150365065741/i-never-thought-id-say-this-but-i-felt-so

http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/150331047091/if-daemon-was-the-brother-bloodraven-loved-then

http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/150267157896/which-brother-do-you-think-was-the-one-bloodraven

Also, to answer a few of your specific points myself:

On the whole killing Daemon's children: We already have a potential example of this in ironically enough Maegor the Cruel. The man was strangely (and possibly frustratingly from Visenya's POV) loyal to his half-brother yet that did not stop him from killing Aenys's children. After all loving a person and loving their children are two separate things that do not always go hand in hand.

On Ser Eustace Osgrey and the Lack of Information: Why the HELL would he know anything about Daemon and Brynden's relationship? Unless he was at court while Daemon was growing up, which is highly unlikely, there is simply no way he would be able to tell us if they had been close or not without Daemon or Fireball or someone else close to Daemon telling him and while Daemon was a gregarious fellow I don't think he was the kind of person to talk about his personal relationships with his family to someone as minor as the Knight of Standfast. As for the lack of information supporting Daemon well that's a result of the fact that GRRM seems to be keeping all the details regarding the lead-up to the FBR under wraps for F & B considering that we have no details on the personal dynamics and interactions at Daeron II's court between 184 and 196 AC. To give an example we know from an SSM that by the time Daemon declares himself he and Daeron have already had a "few clashes" but nothing concerning what these were about such as whether they were political or personal. As to the TWOIAF a possibility is that no one wrote down that Bloodraven was close to Daemon after the rebellion for fear of drawing his ire and that any records from before then detailing such were destroyed, possibly deliberately. Of course there is no evidence for this but again there is a lot we currently don't know that GRRM is clearly saving for F & B so he could do it. Or not. This is his work after all.

[Lord Varys]

3 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

@Lord Varys

On the whole Daemon/Daeron thing:

Here are some explanations of why it is better for Daemon to have been the brother Bloodraven loved and why it can make sense:

http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/151150103696/going-through-the-bloodraven-tag-and-i-have-to

http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/150365065741/i-never-thought-id-say-this-but-i-felt-so

http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/150331047091/if-daemon-was-the-brother-bloodraven-loved-then

http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/150267157896/which-brother-do-you-think-was-the-one-bloodraven

Those don't convince me one bit, I'm sorry. There is no reason to believe that Daemon was close to Brynden, period. That it would be a rather interesting story doesn't make it so. I once considered that idea myself when I first read ADwD but I think it's quite clear that this isn't a good theory.

And it operates a lot with Brynden choosing duty over love, etc. for which we have no proof, either. He could have chosen love and duty, considering that he might have both loved Daeron II as his brother and considered him the rightful king.

3 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

On the whole killing Daemon's children: We already have a potential example of this in ironically enough Maegor the Cruel. The man was strangely (and possibly frustratingly from Visenya's POV) loyal to his half-brother yet that did not stop him from killing Aenys's children. After all loving a person and loving their children are two separate things that do not always go hand in hand.

I thought about that as well. But then, Maegor and Aenys were never close. Maegor never rebelled against his brother but their relationship ended badly, and they never reconciled. Maegor was later forced to kill at least Aegon (who challenged his claim to the Iron Throne). The treatment of Viserys was despicable, that's obvious, but unlike Maegor Bloodraven doesn't have the luxury of citing the fact that he was the king as an excuse for his kinslaying. He chose to kill Daemon, the twins, and Aenys. Nobody forced him to do so. He could have left that decision to his king (or somebody else).

3 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

On Ser Eustace Osgrey and the Lack of Information: Why the HELL would he know anything about Daemon and Brynden's relationship?

Osgrey has a pretty good knowledge of Daemon. He may not have been with him in his youth but her certainly rode with him in war and was closely connected to Daemon's buddies from the Reach. He is in a much better position to know stuff about Brynden and Daemon if there was anything to know about them than Yandel is (who doesn't write a history of House Blackfyre). Ser Eustace also gives us the most detailed picture of the Redgrass Field and the Blackfyre Rebellion.

3 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

Unless he was at court while Daemon was growing up, which is highly unlikely, there is simply no way he would be able to tell us if they had been close or not without Daemon or Fireball or someone else close to Daemon telling him and while Daemon was a gregarious fellow I don't think he was the kind of person to talk about his personal relationships with his family to someone as minor as the Knight of Standfast.

Osgrey might actually have been at court for a time in the years before the Blackfyre Rebellion broke out. He know Daeron II, too, right down to his belly. He certainly wasn't a guy who declared for the Black Dragon on a whim. He thought Daemon was the better man, and for that he must have known him reasonably well.

3 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

As for the lack of information supporting Daemon well that's a result of the fact that GRRM seems to be keeping all the details regarding the lead-up to the FBR under wraps for F & B considering that we have no details on the personal dynamics and interactions at Daeron II's court between 184 and 196 AC. To give an example we know from an SSM that by the time Daemon declares himself he and Daeron have already had a "few clashes" but nothing concerning what these were about such as whether they were political or personal.

Do you really expect a lot of details on the Blackfyre Rebellion? 'Fire and Blood' could give us some more, true, but I doubt George has much details on that war as of yet. The whole Gyldayn history stretches only from the Conquest to the end of the Regency of Aegon III, everything thereafter is just a lot of notes. Detailed notes on occasion, but the Blackfyre Rebellion is never going to feature in any Dunk & Egg story, so I doubt that there is a lot of information already flashed out about that war that's going to become important in a later story or book.

There could be some additional flashbacks/recollections should Bittersteel ever feature prominently in a Dunk & Egg story, but aside from that I don't expect all that much on that front.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Those don't convince me one bit, I'm sorry.

Wow, you read all those arguments and more, and then responded in 18 minutes. You must have given them great consideration before rejecting them. 

[Lord Varys]

5 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Wow, you read all those arguments and more, and then responded in 18 minutes. You must have given them great consideration before rejecting them. 

The links were pretty short. Just some Q&As. At least unless I missed something. Didn't you follow them?

Addendum:

I just double-checked them. Only Q&As. And yeah, I can read a few short paragraphs in a couple of minutes. And so can you. But you have to do it before you complain ;-).

[Lost Melnibonean]

28 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The links were pretty short. Just some Q&As. At least unless I missed something. Didn't you follow them?

Addendum:

I just double-checked them. Only Q&As. And yeah, I can read a few short paragraphs in a couple of minutes. And so can you. But you have to do it before you complain ;-).

Not me. I am too slow. I am so slow, I can't even figure out which brother Bloodraven really loved. 

[Lord Varys]

8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Not me. I am too slow. I am so slow, I can't even figure out which brother Bloodraven really loved. 

The name begins on 'Dae...' and ends on '...on' ;-).