Arya Corpse-kicker

[Errant Bard]

Ned's own actions get him arrested, no question about that. Nothing Sansa did or didn't say would have changed that. Without Sansa's comments to Cersei, however, it's possible that the girls get away, there is no threat to Sansa to force Ned to confess, so Ned never ends up on the steps Baelor's Sept to give Joff the opportunity to order a public execution.

Not even sure about that, see, Varys never showed Ned that he had Sansa when he made his threat. He could have lied with the same effect.

And if Ned refused to lie in front of the sept of Baelor, what of it? That means he would be executed rather than being offered the choice to take the black. I don't really see what it would change, between one confession at swordspoint and no confession before the death. Robb rebels all the same, maybe some minor lords don't swear alliegeance to the same people, but all in all all the big fishes still stick to the same side, North and half riverland with Robb against half riverlands and Westerlands, and the rest split between Stannis, Renly and Drone, as before.

[Quoth]

"It should have been you", by Cat, started my deep loathing for her.

[Prince of the North]

"It should have been you", by Cat, started my deep loathing for her.

Yes, I agree with you and was aghast at Catelyn for uttering those callous words to Jon. However, it still didn't completely set me against Catelyn and color my judgement of her from then on (as, I think, it does many readers). In a way, it made her character that much more interesting for me because it made her more multifaceted and "human". To me, she was a mother who was beside herself with grief and lashed out. I guess my reaction was that I didn't agree with it but I could understand it.

[Quoth]

Yes, I agree with you and was aghast at Catelyn for uttering those callous words to Jon. However, it still didn't completely set me against Catelyn and color my judgement of her from then on (as, I think, it does many readers). In a way, it made her character that much more interesting for me because it made her more multifaceted and "human". To me, she was a mother who was beside herself with grief and lashed out. I guess my reaction was that I didn't agree with it but I could understand it.

It was just so jarring because I'd been so beautifully set up by GGRM. Here she oversees Jon talking so tenderly to Bran. I expected to see this big thaw in the relationship between Cat and Jon. Then WHAM! On re-reads, I could almost hear GRRM chuckling to himself adding a scornful "Bet you thought this was a run of the mill story, didn't ya?"

And oddly, like every other character in the series, my like/dislike waxes and wanes almost with every other scene.

[L'Sana]

Not even sure about that, see, Varys never showed Ned that he had Sansa when he made his threat. He could have lied with the same effect.

True enough. Though given the opportunity, he doesn't lie about Arya. He admits to Ned that she escaped. He might have lied to obtain Ned's confession, but he might have wanted to avoid a lie he would have been found out in.

And if Ned refused to lie in front of the sept of Baelor, what of it? That means he would be executed rather than being offered the choice to take the black. I don't really see what it would change, between one confession at swordspoint and no confession before the death. Robb rebels all the same, maybe some minor lords don't swear alliegeance to the same people, but all in all all the big fishes still stick to the same side, North and half riverland with Robb against half riverlands and Westerlands, and the rest split between Stannis, Renly and Drone, as before.

Maybe, but there is an argument that says that Cersei never intended to execute Ned, or at least not at that time. Catelyn believed that with Robb in the field, Cersei would keep Ned and the girls alive to use as bargaining chips should the fighting go against her. Joff obviously didn't care about such things, but with Ned in the dungeon, Cersei was the one in charge. It was only when Ned was taken out for his public show that Joff got his opportunity to order the execution.

Or maybe not. Maybe Cersei is dumber than Catelyn thought she was or Joff was determined enough that he'd have found a way to kill Ned no matter what. But I think there is at least a possibility that Sansa and Arya's escape could have changed at least some things.

[Lady Blackfish]

Maybe Cersei is dumber than Catelyn thought she was or Joff was determined enough that he'd have found a way to kill Ned no matter what.

Cersei did lament Ned's beheading, if I recall correctly (don't have a quote). I think Joff might have been determined but that doesn't translate into know-how, he has a very low cunning and depends on luck, I believe. But that doesn't mean Cersei would've continued to keep Ned alive for the duration of the war.

[AsphodelElysium]

Thing is, how much could she really look like Lynesse? I'm pretty sure Lynesse did not have silver hair and purple eyes.

I don't believe Jorah went into much detail about how Lynesse looked. He just made the remark that Dany resembled her.

[Black Wizard]

Cersei did lament Ned's beheading, if I recall correctly (don't have a quote). I think Joff might have been determined but that doesn't translate into know-how, he has a very low cunning and depends on luck, I believe. But that doesn't mean Cersei would've continued to keep Ned alive for the duration of the war.

She was going to send him to the Wall.

[Ned Sand]

Cersei did lament Ned's beheading, if I recall correctly (don't have a quote). I think Joff might have been determined but . . .

As his uncle was fond of pointing out, Joff was 12! If Cersei were any good at her job (ruling/ motherhood/ eviloverlording*), she'd have realized how much damage that killing would do and stopped it. The beheading had to have taken a good 20 seconds to complete.

Why did Tywin send Tyrion to KL to rule? Because his daughter was incompetent.

*eviloverlording -- There's a word just dying for an anagram or something. Eve I Lover Grind Lo

[TTB]

As has been mentioned before, reading what Catelyn said to Jon ("It should have been you!"). It was disappointing, sure, but Cat is still one of my favorite characters, despite (maybe because) of this.

Joffrey beheading Ned. Again, it's been mentioned before, but it was disappointing. Joffrey was a little sh*t before this event, but this just made him into a true despot-in-the-making.

This series is rife with these sorts of "WTF, dude?!" moments. It's hard to pick from them.

[genowyn]

I didn't like when Tyrion told Jaime that he killed Joffrey. I can understand how he was angry about Tysha and Jaime's involvement, but as we can see he did enough damage with "She's probably fucking Lancel and Osmund and Moonboy for all I know."

Telling Jaime that he killed Joffrey was just foolish, because not only is it untrue, but it would make Jaime feel really awful for releasing him.

And when Oberyn wouldn't just shut up and kill Gregor.

[cripples and broken things]

Oberyn for leading the Mountain around like a well trained dog then screwing it up so badly in the end that he died too. I had to stop the urge to pound my head against a wall.

[King_In_The_North]

Oberyn simply HAS to hear Gregor confess before his death!

Robb marrying Jeyne (although I would actually like him less if he didn't. If he was always succesful and perfect and all, I wouldn't like him so much. Everybody hates perfect characters, and I don't want a Robb Sue)

Eddard telling Cersei all that he knows. I mean, seriously?

[Celtigar]

Sandor not killing everyone I dislike.

[halftoe]

I was dissapointed with Tyrian when he lied to his brother about killing Joff. It seemed so out of character to me, especially since the Kingslayer had just freed him from a certian death. I honestly expected him to tell the truth at that moment, but something vicious grabbed the Imp....maybe I don't understand his motivations correctly....