[NO SPOILERS] General Opinions on the TV Show

[herkles]

I think the main reason why we have yet to see the other direwolves is to that nymeria and lady were important for this episode so the focus had to be on them. I am sure we shall get much more of the wolves later on.

As for the characters, I think the actors/actress are spot on as well, I have no real complaints though I have not seen much of some of them to make a good judgement on them yet, but so far they seem to be cast well. I am curious though to know who plays Samwell Tarly and when we get to see him and some of the other members of the Night's Watch?

one minor complaint though is Jamie's outfit, his normal leather outfit just does not seem to fit in with the rest of the show for me. It is a minor thing but one thing that I quite do not like.

[Hyper]

While more focus and airtime on the direwolves would be welcome, there are always tradeoffs in a adaptation such as this. They have 10 hrs to cover the book. Something has to go. And the human characters are far more important for the show.

[ja4161]

The same can be said here of Viserys and the Hound: if their performances were as vile and loathsome as they're described in the novel, there would be no doubt in the audience's mind regarding the extent of their villainy.

I agree that keeping Cersei's true purpose more reserved may be the intention here. I hope this is the case. I don't agree about the Hound though. The Hound is a really complicated character. Is he all bad? Does he have some good in him? There are definitely some points in the book where something of a good character starts to show through..., maybe not "good" but definitely something other than evil. I think it better to show his angry side right from the beginning and then let some of the depth of his character show through. Just my opinion though. That's how I'd tackle this character. I can't wait to see how they tackle his brother, "The Mountain that Rides!" There is no good in that guy. None. Sir Gregor Clegane is being played by Conan Stevens who is suppose to be seven feet tall. Seven Feet!

[Prince of Dinas Emrys]

Ghost, Grey Wind, and Shaggydog have not been seen at all.

There is a shot with Ghost in the second episode. It's a wide shot of the camp as Benjen, Tyrion and Jon make their way north -- the first, establishing angle of the "What do you see when you look at me, bastard?" scene. Ghost's white head is moving round as the camera cranes up and moves in toward the camp.

It's fleeting, but it's there. Never fear, Ghost is indeed with Jon at the wall. :pirate:

[Prince of Dinas Emrys]

I agree that keeping Cersei's true purpose more reserved may be the intention here. I hope this is the case. I don't agree about the Hound though. The Hound is a really complicated character. Is he all bad? Does he have some good in him? There are definitely some points in the book where something of a good character starts to show through..., maybe not "good" but definitely something other than evil. I think it better to show his angry side right from the beginning and then let some of the depth of his character show through. Just my opinion though. That's how I'd tackle this character. I can't wait to see how they tackle his brother, "The Mountain that Rides!" There is no good in that guy. None. Sir Gregor Clegane is being played by Conan Stevens who is suppose to be seven feet tall. Seven Feet!

I meant that the early scenes with the Hound, well into the second novel, establish him as despicable, hateful, loathsome. Regardless of his later development, the producers of the series have wisely (IMHO) toned down his rage so we don't get the sense that he is pure evil. In the books we may think that for awhile. It's complicated. :lol:

[Maia]

but in the TV series they've toned down the use of colors in the north deliberately, and I think that was a good decision (as explained above).

Oh, I've seen the costume featurette, I just disagree with the direction they took. It's OK to use toned down colors in the North and with the Starks in particular, it is not OK to have them dress worse than the servants or not use their House colors/sigils in their costuming. Also, nobody except Cersei putting on finery for the royal feast (and hers in very subdued colors too) stuck out like a sore thumb and felt cheap.

I noticed that many of the Lannisters wore reddish leather, while commoners mostly wore dark leather. The reddish leather looked more "luxurious", at least in my eyes.

Too little, far too little. For instance, why is Tyrion wearing a _black_ stained quilted jacket under his leather and a threadbare black cloak with ratty fur? What's the deal with Jaime's strange leather vests/bathrobes in _gray_? Why is everybody wearing so much black for that matter - it makes it really confusing re: the Night's Watch and how it is easy to tell deserters of.

I personally don't think the design of costumes should be dictated by the (in)ability of non-readers to recognize the characters visually. I think the practical approach of the costume designers is better and more realistic.

IMHO, it is not realistic at all when you can't tell at a glance the difference between a powerful nobleman, however toned down his clothing, and a random guardsman. It was one of those things that was characteristic for such societies - the gap between a noble and a commoner was enormous. Also, it is not realistic at all for noblemen to never change - it was one of the perks of being rich to have several changes of clothing.

I mean, I have seen some preserved medieval clothing in museums and in pictures - it wasn't drab at all, for royalty/nobility/high clerus. What they have done with the show doesn't make it look realistic, but the opposite, at least for European eyes.

[Arya The Assassin]

It's OK to use toned down colors in the North and with the Starks in particular, it is not OK to have them dress worse than the servants or not use their House colors/sigils in their costuming.

Worse than the servants? :stunned: The difference between the Starks and their servants was less noticeable compared to the Lannisters, but in my opinion, the Starks at least didn't look worse than their servants. I do agree that the sigils could've been more prominent in some of their costuming, but it really doesn't bother me that much.

Also, nobody except Cersei putting on finery for the royal feast (and hers in very subdued colors too) stuck out like a sore thumb and felt cheap.

I noticed that the king, Sansa and Catelyn wore different clothes at the banquet (apart from Cersei). It wasn't as if they didn't bother to change clothes, although the clothes might not have been as pretty and elaborate as you'd expected.

The costume designers' rationale here is, as mentioned earlier, that the nobles of the North don't have that easy access to more luxurious or exotic clothing, and they prefer to dress more practically. I don't have a problem with that explanation. I also think the toned down design helps to reflect the cold and harsh northern environment.

Why is everybody wearing so much black for that matter - it makes it really confusing re: the Night's Watch and how it is easy to tell deserters of.

This is explained in one of the costume-featurettes (the Night's Watch has been in decline, lack of funding, armor is impractical in the cold, etc.). I think it made sense to me.

It was one of those things that was characteristic for such societies - the gap between a noble and a commoner was enormous.

In general perhaps, but that doesn't necessarily mean it applies to all medieval societies. I suppose it also depends on how rich the nobles were, and my impression is that the Starks (in the TV show) aren't that wealthy.

What they have done with the show doesn't make it look realistic, but the opposite, at least for European eyes.

Michele Clapton is a BAFTA-winning costume designer from England (I think she knows a thing or two about medieval costumes), and I'm actually from Scandinavia :)

It depends on how you define 'realistic' in this context: Maybe it's not very realistic from a historical standpoint, but at least it seems realistic to me, given the framework of the TV show. And I think it's a big difference between being completely unrealistic and being plausible. After all, GoT isn't supposed to be a historical documentary, and the designers are not obliged to follow every description in the book (especially when they have a limited budget).

I also think it's rather premature to draw bombastic conclusions about the costume design based on only two episodes. So far most of the plot has taken place in the North, and I think the designers have presented plausible reasons for their decision to tone down the use of colors and other exotic materials there. They've also explained that this will change (more use of colors, etc.) as the plot moves further south.

[Xenophon]

Personally, I like the costumes so far except for the Dothraki. I think they've done a great job of making them seem realistic without being familiar.

Re. the complaint that the nobles aren't well-enough dressed, I think 1) they'll be better dressed in the capital (the Starks are supposed to be fairly unostentatious, and every one else is traveling) and 2) it's not that unrealistic for the servants we see to be pretty well dressed (these are the household servants of the most powerful families in the land, and their appearance is a reflection of their masters' status).

[Tomgh]

Some months ago I visited the GRRM website to see if there where any updates on the TV series and yesterday suddenly (to me) the episode was online.

There is so much in this story. I'm watching it with a friend who hasn't read the novels. Once and again I found myself asking him: did you get that? And than explaining some more of the story. You really have to pay attention or you'll miss even the most obvious things, like Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion are brothers and sister.

I think the series are fun to watch for us, who also read the books.

My general opinion without any spoilers. As been said, I was searching for the direwolf on the Starks clothing, something I really missed. I like the cast. Arya, John, Ned and Catelyn are really how I imagined them to be. Sansa being so much taller than Arya was not what I expected.

I felt the first episode was a bit rushed. I hope this will change in further episodes.

I think too often there's to much emotion and melancholy in Ned Stark's voice. Every memorable line from the books that he says in the TV series sounds kinda weak. I imagined Ned more harsher and cold. Thats really a drawback.

Furthermore. The wall looked great, but overall I'm missing the CG. The Dothraki army, the whole Kings party, the feasts, they all seem so small. I wouldn't mind if an army would have been CG'd like in The Patriot or movies like 300.

I'm also a big fan of the Spartacus series. And can't help comparing the two. I love the graphic novel style in Spartacus. I think every single CAM angle, every scene, every shot is EPIC. I could press [print screen] at any givin frame and print is supersize and hang it as a poster on my wall. The action in these series is brutal, as are the sex-scenes.

I would have liked Game of Thrones to edge a little bit to the Spartacus side.

But all in all I'm gonna continue watching the series. At certain scenes I had goosebumps and chills going over my back when I thought about what's still to come. The story is great. The best I've ever read. So much character development, plot twists, such a realistic story. Like whats said so many times before, grey characters, instead of the black/white, good/evil that we see in most fantasy novels.

Tom [from the Netherlands]

[Arya The Assassin]

I think too often there's to much emotion and melancholy in Ned Stark's voice. Every memorable line from the books that he says in the TV series sounds kinda weak.

I think Sean Bean's take on Ned is spot on. He's emotional when the situation calls for it, without pushing things too far. He's firm, yet you sense that he has a warmer side as well.

Furthermore. The wall looked great, but overall I'm missing the CG. The Dothraki army, the whole Kings party, the feasts, they all seem so small. I wouldn't mind if an army would have been CG'd like in The Patriot or movies like 300.

This has a lot to do with time and money, or lack thereof. A TV series -- even a very expensive one such as GoT -- doesn't have the same budget as a big budget Hollywood movie. Besides, a character/plot-driven series such as GoT, with its huge cast, can't afford to spend too much money on visual effects. But like I said earlier, I think they've done a very nice job on the production design and special effects, especially when you take the relatively limited budget into consideration.

I do believe that we will see some CG-cloning of armies, or perhaps even CG-generated armies, but these visual effects will probably be saved for major scenes or battles later in the series. I read an interview with the producers, and although they said that they couldn't match the LoTR-trilogy in terms of visual scope and spectacle (no wonder, given LoTR's budget of $285 M compared to GoT's $50-60 M), they did say that they wanted to make the battle scenes better than those in ROME.

I'm also a big fan of the Spartacus series. And can't help comparing the two. I love the graphic novel style in Spartacus. I think every single CAM angle, every scene, every shot is EPIC. I could press [print screen] at any givin frame and print is supersize and hang it as a poster on my wall. The action in these series is brutal, as are the sex-scenes. I would have liked Game of Thrones to edge a little bit to the Spartacus side.

I haven't seen the SPARTACUS-series, but I think I understand what you're talking about. The visual style and pacing of a film is determined by the director, editor and the cinematographer. The first two episodes have been directed by Tim Van Patten, but the next three episodes have been directed by Brian Kirk. This might suggest a slightly different directorial style and look, although I wouldn't expect any drastic changes.

Perhaps more importantly, though, some directors have more experience with shooting action-scenes, and many younger directors today have a background as music video directors, and this is often reflected by the dynamic shots and pacing of their films.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Oh, I've seen the costume featurette, I just disagree with the direction they took. It's OK to use toned down colors in the North and with the Starks in particular, it is not OK to have them dress worse than the servants or not use their House colors/sigils in their costuming. Also, nobody except Cersei putting on finery for the royal feast (and hers in very subdued colors too) stuck out like a sore thumb and felt cheap.

Too little, far too little. For instance, why is Tyrion wearing a _black_ stained quilted jacket under his leather and a threadbare black cloak with ratty fur? What's the deal with Jaime's strange leather vests/bathrobes in _gray_? Why is everybody wearing so much black for that matter - it makes it really confusing re: the Night's Watch and how it is easy to tell deserters of.

IMHO, it is not realistic at all when you can't tell at a glance the difference between a powerful nobleman, however toned down his clothing, and a random guardsman. It was one of those things that was characteristic for such societies - the gap between a noble and a commoner was enormous. Also, it is not realistic at all for noblemen to never change - it was one of the perks of being rich to have several changes of clothing.

I mean, I have seen some preserved medieval clothing in museums and in pictures - it wasn't drab at all, for royalty/nobility/high clerus. What they have done with the show doesn't make it look realistic, but the opposite, at least for European eyes.

Starks = Comunists.

Eddard even sits with his servants over dinner.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Some months ago I visited the GRRM website to see if there where any updates on the TV series and yesterday suddenly (to me) the episode was online.

There is so much in this story. I'm watching it with a friend who hasn't read the novels. Once and again I found myself asking him: did you get that? And than explaining some more of the story. You really have to pay attention or you'll miss even the most obvious things, like Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion are brothers and sister.

I think the series are fun to watch for us, who also read the books.

My general opinion without any spoilers. As been said, I was searching for the direwolf on the Starks clothing, something I really missed. I like the cast. Arya, John, Ned and Catelyn are really how I imagined them to be. Sansa being so much taller than Arya was not what I expected.

I felt the first episode was a bit rushed. I hope this will change in further episodes.

I think too often there's to much emotion and melancholy in Ned Stark's voice. Every memorable line from the books that he says in the TV series sounds kinda weak. I imagined Ned more harsher and cold. Thats really a drawback.

Furthermore. The wall looked great, but overall I'm missing the CG. The Dothraki army, the whole Kings party, the feasts, they all seem so small. I wouldn't mind if an army would have been CG'd like in The Patriot or movies like 300.

I'm also a big fan of the Spartacus series. And can't help comparing the two. I love the graphic novel style in Spartacus. I think every single CAM angle, every scene, every shot is EPIC. I could press [print screen] at any givin frame and print is supersize and hang it as a poster on my wall. The action in these series is brutal, as are the sex-scenes.

I would have liked Game of Thrones to edge a little bit to the Spartacus side.

But all in all I'm gonna continue watching the series. At certain scenes I had goosebumps and chills going over my back when I thought about what's still to come. The story is great. The best I've ever read. So much character development, plot twists, such a realistic story. Like whats said so many times before, grey characters, instead of the black/white, good/evil that we see in most fantasy novels.

Tom [from the Netherlands]

I do agree with you on the Spartacus part. My opinion as someone who has watched quite a lot of movies and series is that scenes with diferent "feelings" should have diferent direction styles. I hope that the fighting and action scenes in GOT do look a bit like Spartacus, but I dont think the direction style should be used anywhere else in the series.

I think the direction of the first two episodes is too simple and conservative, but I guess that with the time limits and so much material you cant experiment that much.

[Arya The Assassin]

I think the direction of the first two episodes is too simple and conservative, but I guess that with the time limits and so much material you cant experiment that much.

I don't think time limits and the amount of "material" is the issue here. I think it has more to do with the fact that GoT is primarily a drama, and not an action-oriented series. Dramas tend to be shot in a more static, conventional, laid-back style.

That doesn't mean that the action-scenes can't or shouldn't be more dynamic in a drama-series, but as mentioned earlier, staging, shooting and editing action-scenes in a dynamic and visually powerful way isn't easy, and it often requires specialized skills. The directors on GoT are highly experienced, and they've directed many of the biggest shows for HBO (Tim Van Patten in particular, who replaced Tom McCarthy as director on episode 1 and 2, when the original pilot was scrapped), but it appears that they've mostly done drama-oriented series.

I don't think we've seen any major fights or duels yet, though (apart from the brief "ceremonial"/drunken fights at Khal Drogo's camp), but there will be more action-scenes later in the series (tournaments, duels, sword-fights, major battles, etc.).

[ja4161]

I don't think time limits and the amount of "material" is the issue here. I think it has more to do with the fact that GoT is primarily a drama, and not an action-oriented series. Dramas tend to be shot in a more static, conventional, laid-back style.

That doesn't mean that the action-scenes can't or shouldn't be more dynamic in a drama-series, but as mentioned earlier, staging, shooting and editing action-scenes in a dynamic and visually powerful way isn't easy, and it often requires specialized skills. The directors on GoT are highly experienced, and they've directed many of the biggest shows for HBO (Tim Van Patten in particular, who replaced Tom McCarthy as director on episode 1 and 2, when the original pilot was scrapped), but it appears that they've mostly done drama-oriented series.

I don't think we've seen any major fights or duels yet, though (apart from the brief "ceremonial"/drunken fights at Khal Drogo's camp), but there will be more action-scenes later in the series (tournaments, duels, sword-fights, major battles, etc.).

While I know what you're saying, I'd have to say I disagree with calling GoT a drama. It's really a balanced mixture of many genre's including action, intrigue and drama. To leave any aspect of these elements out won't do the story justice. The characters in these books are more real than any other books I've ever read, especially the ones that he chapterizes. Realizing these characters this way can have the feel of a drama, at times. In addition, many of these characters have a long history with one another that even readers of the books aren't always privy to. After all, many of them fought a war together to overthrow the Targaryens. We don't ever actually see that war, but we do see the ripples of war that bind them all together. It's really cool how Martin has set it all up. Love it.

[Arya The Assassin]

While I know what you're saying, I'd have to say I disagree with calling GoT a drama. It's really a balanced mixture of many genre's including action, intrigue and drama.

I said it's primarily a drama :) Of course it has action, adventure and fantasy elements as well, but its focus is on characters and plot (ie. drama).

Speaking of action: I forgot to mention that later in the novels, we are introduced to a group of professional, heavily trained, highly disciplined, elite heavy infantry (people who've read the novels know who I'm talking about). These elite battalions are fashioned after the Greek hoplites and Roman legionnaires. I remember that in one major battle, 3.000 of these elite soldiers faced 20.000 light-cavalry. The battle was probably strategically inspired by the Battle of Thermopylae, which inspired such works as 300 (which was later adapted for the screen).

I wonder if we'll see these guys in action in the TV series. Those who enjoy films such as 300 or series like Spartacus will probably love these guys. But I hope the scenes and the violence don't look as stylized as in 300: It suited that movie, and it looked 'cool', but it didn't look very realistic.

EDIT: Removed snippets of info to avoid potential spoilers.

[theLaughingTree]

Very disappointed in Kings Landing background.

Palm trees have no business in Kings Landing. The climate and location is all wrong for palm trees and GRRM never mentions them being transplanted there for any reason. Gives Kings Landing far too tropical feel when the descriptions of Kings Landing were never tropical.

Oaks, cedar, cypress, yew and maybe maple should have been used but no way should palm trees have been used.

[Hyper]

Very disappointed in Kings Landing background.

Palm trees have no business in Kings Landing. The climate and location is all wrong for palm trees and GRRM never mentions them being transplanted there for any reason. Gives Kings Landing far too tropical feel when the descriptions of Kings Landing were never tropical.

Oaks, cedar, cypress, yew and maybe maple should have been used but no way should palm trees have been used.

Oh, so if GRRM doesn't explicitly mention a tree, it doesn't belong there? I suppose it is only fair then to expect that GRRM would have explicitly mentioned the tree choices you listed? Can you cite references in chapters?

KL may not be what we imagined when reading the books, but I don't think their interpretation is that out there. From Roberts description when he tries to woo Ned, it sounds like a KL has warm mediterranean climate. Besides, they also were forced due to budget issues to find a suitable shooting location, which is not easy.

[theLaughingTree]

Oh, so if GRRM doesn't explicitly mention a tree, it doesn't belong there? I suppose it is only fair then to expect that GRRM would have explicitly mentioned the tree choices you listed? Can you cite references in chapters?

KL may not be what we imagined when reading the books, but I don't think their interpretation is that out there. From Roberts description when he tries to woo Ned, it sounds like a KL has warm mediterranean climate. Besides, they also were forced due to budget issues to find a suitable shooting location, which is not easy.

Not exactly.

What I mean is that since palm trees are a tropical tree and not usually native to med/chaparral climates (there are a few exceptions of course) I am surprised to see palm trees in Kings Landing and do not think that was an appropriate choice. The trees I listed are the most common in the type of climate of where Kings Landing is supposed to be located and fit the general ambiance of Kings Landing that Martin describes. Palm trees don't, they are tropical trees. They certainly fit Dorne and parts of the other continent like Pentos or around Slaver's bay but do not really fit Kings Landing IMO. Of course most of our descriptions come from "The Long Summer" and it is a fantasy world so its not entirely unjustified. But when I read about Kings Landing I am not picturing tropical palm trees thats for sure.

And it really doesn't matter where you shoot location wise these days. Editing out those palm trees is certainly within the ability of CGI artists with today's industry standard programs and powerful computers. This is exactly what HBO did when they shot Boardwalk Empire in modern Atlantic City but used smooth CGI editing to make it 1920s Atlantic City. Same principle just with the trees instead of buildings.

Here are a few pictures that are more how I envisioned Kings Landing's background trees:

http://www.andersfiner.com/cmine/albums/illustrations/A%20Game%20of%20thrones/ffg_ccg_jonsman.jpg

[Xenophon]

Not exactly.

What I mean is that since palm trees are a tropical tree and not usually native to med/chaparral climates (there are a few exceptions of course) I am surprised to see palm trees in Kings Landing and do not think that was an appropriate choice.

There are palm trees all over Rome, Barcelona, Monaco, etc. In fact, I think those scenes were filmed in Malta, so yes, palm trees are appropriate for a Med climate.

[Trebla]

I have to admit I've been pretty meh on the costumes as well. It's probably my biggest gripe. In the books, I loved the descriptions of what the nobility wore: Jaime's black and red adornment at the Winterfell feast, Jon thinking how he looked like a king. TV show Jaime and all that leather? eh.