Prologue Confusion (AFfC Spoilers)

[Peko]

Why does the Pate at the end have to be Jaqen taking Prologue!Pate's identity? There are several Pates in the series: Tommen has a whipping boy named Pate, the BWB finds Arya in a cornfield owned by an old farmer named Pate, and there are one or two others. So why can't Epilogue!Pate be a completely different Pate?

It's clear that all the people who Pate associated with in the prologue still think it's him and not an imposter in Sam's final chapter.

[Bib Fortuna]

I don't have AFfC anymore, could you summarize Jaime's 1st AFfC chapter?

I thought Syrio still being alive would be too good too be true. But his spirit will always live on in the knowledge that he imparted to Arya.

I guess I always feel that unless a POV character sees someone die, they may not be dead.

Rennifer Longwaters, the chief undergaoler of the black cells speaking to Jaime:

"The black cells are little used. Before your lordship's little brother was sent down, we had Grand Maester Pycelle for a time, and before him Lord Stark the traitor.

There were three others, common men, but Lord Stark gave them to the Night's Watch.

I did not think it good to free those three, but the papers were in proper order. I made note of that in a report as well, you may be certain of it."

[Lady Snowcat]

Rennifer Longwaters, the chief undergaoler of the black cells speaking to Jaime:

"The black cells are little used. Before your lordship's little brother was sent down, we had Grand Maester Pycelle for a time, and before him Lord Stark the traitor.

There were three others, common men, but Lord Stark gave them to the Night's Watch.

I did not think it good to free those three, but the papers were in proper order. I made note of that in a report as well, you may be certain of it."

Got it. Thx. Then based on this, I agree that Jaqen cannot be Syrio.

Nonetheless, we never really saw Syrio die so perhaps he escaped back to Bravos & Arya will encounter him there. I just liked him so it would be nice if he would cross Arya's path again. She can use advice & instruction from someone she trusts.

[Serr Parker]

Got it. Thx. Then based on this, I agree that Jaqen cannot be Syrio.

Nonetheless, we never really saw Syrio die so perhaps he escaped back to Bravos & Arya will encounter him there. I just liked him so it would be nice if he would cross Arya's path again. She can use advice & instruction from someone she trusts.

Can't remember in the book but I'm sure in the series when Ayra runs away you hear a metal sword fall in the background not a wooden one, might be something to go off?

[Gedward]

let me pose a second question here then... why would jaqen want the key that pate gave him? this part still confuses me.

I thought they got the glass candle with the key. The candle that is in the room at the end, which is suppose to be unlightable but they have lit it. Maybe I got it wrong though.

[The Answer]

Wow. I'm in the middle of ADWD. But I never realized just how crazy this topic of Pate really was.

I too no longer have AFFC in my possession. But isn't it a possibility that the Pate at the very end is the same Pate from the prologue? It's been a few months since I read the book, but if I remember correctly there was a lot to do with a candle, and the maester knew Samwell was going to be coming.

Maybe in Old Town, specifically at the Citadel, some just so happen to be believers of R'holler. If that's the case, they would have been able to use the candle to see Samwell on his journey, as well and resurrect Pate using the same power that Thoros of Myr & Lord Beric used on Lady Catelyn?

[Sigrid]

Yes, it's figured that the alchemist in the prologue is Jaqen. The description exactly fits the description of what his face looked like when he left Arya. So Jaqen kills Pate in the prologue. Then assumes Pate's face and identity and that's the Pate who Sam meets at the end.

Jaqen kills Pate.

Jaqen becomes Pate and meets Sam.

I totally missed this the first time around, I thought somehow the book had looped itself, but this obviously makes more sense. Combined with what we learn in Arya's chapters it gives some clues as to how the magic of the Faceless Men works. The question now is whether this individual has been hired by someone to infiltrate the Citidel, or are working for their own means.

[Sigrid]

Rennifer Longwaters, the chief undergaoler of the black cells speaking to Jaime:

"The black cells are little used. Before your lordship's little brother was sent down, we had Grand Maester Pycelle for a time, and before him Lord Stark the traitor.

There were three others, common men, but Lord Stark gave them to the Night's Watch.

I did not think it good to free those three, but the papers were in proper order. I made note of that in a report as well, you may be certain of it."

This little detail does clarify that Jaqen and Syrio are not the same individual. I still like to think the Syrio might have survived, but I don't think we'll ever see him again.

[Talvivaara]

I missed this Jacen=Pate thing when reading, but it does seem clear to me now. No idea what he wants from Citadel, though. Could be that someone of the characters we know has hired him to go yhere.

[More Ice]

Why does the Pate at the end have to be Jaqen taking Prologue!Pate's identity? There are several Pates in the series: Tommen has a whipping boy named Pate, the BWB finds Arya in a cornfield owned by an old farmer named Pate, and there are one or two others. So why can't Epilogue!Pate be a completely different Pate?

The "Pate" at the end of the book has a cell under the rookery, just like the one who bit the gold dragon. How likely would the name of his replacement also be Pate?

And it's not the same Pate either. Pate hated his name because of the pig boy stories. The Pate at the end said "I'm Pate; like the pig boy."

[Annara Snow]

I skipped the prologue. It was too boring. Might be I'll go back and read it when I'm done, but fantasy prologues are usually boring and pointless, and even though so far in these books they have not been, I started to read this three times before I just skipped it and went into the main story.

All the prologues are really important. OK, maybe not the one to the ASOS, but the others all introduce very important plot points that come into play later. The AGOT one introduced the Others/wights, which are only heard about much later in the book. The ACOK one could be skipped, but you'd lose the very memorable introduction of Melisandre, which tells us something about her powers, which we only see much, much later in the book. And the ones for AFFC and ADWD are especially important and unskippable - they contain important info that you don't get anywhere else. The AFFC prologue and epilogue give us info that obviously sets up something big in the future books, why else would it be there.

[Samsaptakas]

All the prologues are really important. OK, maybe not the one to the ASOS, but the others all introduce very important plot points that come into play later. The AGOT one introduced the Others/wights, which are only heard about much later in the book. The ACOK one could be skipped, but you'd lose the very memorable introduction of Melisandre, which tells us something about her powers, which we only see much, much later in the book. And the ones for AFFC and ADWD are especially important and unskippable - they contain important info that you don't get anywhere else. The AFFC prologue and epilogue give us info that obviously sets up something big in the future books, why else would it be there.

And, they are some of the best written chapters in whole series.

[Abyssalix]

I can't seem to find the post, but there was this very interesting theory on the whole pate thing. The key supposedly opened the doors to some rare books on controlling dragons or birthing them from stone eggs. This makes sense of Euron's former dragon egg, which he claims to have thrown onto the sea. The theory suggests that Euron payed the faceless men to kill his brother, a king, which requires an expensive cost, his dragon egg. The Faceless men want to know how to hatch a dragon and control it as to gain power thus sending Jaqen H'gar into westeros, He kills Balon and goes to old town.