When was the last time Rhaegar talked to Jamie?

[ab aeterno]

I'd love to take credit for them, but they paste automatically when I pull them from my e-book, so all credit goes to Kindle :)

Kindle :love:

[redviper9]

I could be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure Barristan wasn't there. He's speaking hypothetically - IF Robert had smiled, he would have killed him - because he doesn't know and he's wondering about it. At the time, he was still recovering from his injuries. That's why he didn't have to kneel later before Robert with Jaime and Varys and Pycelle to ask pardon for having served Aerys or whatever they were doing.

Agreed; I was always under the impression that Barristan was still at the Trident recovering from his wounds when the Lannisters sacked King's Landing and Rhaegar's children were killed.

Regarding Rhaegar and his possible plan to remove Aerys, I think it's certainly plausible. His final conversation with Jaime is telling, as are the rumors surrounding Harrenhal. Of course, everything Varys says should be taken with a grain of salt, but I do think Rhaegar might have seen the tournament as an opportunity. I don't think he put too much planning into it: after all, he wasn't organizing the tournament, nor it would it have been prudent to send ravens to all the great lords with the message, "hey, while we're all at Harrenhal, let's organize a hopefully bloodless coup." I can imagine what Rhaegar imagined to be a private conversation with someone like Arthur Dayne about gathering support at Harrenhal being overheard by Varys's little birds.

[The Angels' Prophet]

This is actually quite a good question,when you think about the chronology.

So, did Rhaegar kidnap Lyanna, stick her in the ToJ for, around a year, during which Rhaegar returned to Kings Landing, after Lord Rickard and Brandon came, and were burned alive by Aerys?

I guess the correct question is "when did Rhaegar return to Kings Landing, and how often was he there, after kidnapping Lyanna?"

This kind of puts the whole Lyanna and Rhaegar love story into a bit of doubt...

[Thendel]

This is actually quite a good question,when you think about the chronology.

So, did Rhaegar kidnap Lyanna, stick her in the ToJ for, around a year, during which Rhaegar returned to Kings Landing, after Lord Rickard and Brandon came, and were burned alive by Aerys?

I guess the correct question is "when did Rhaegar return to Kings Landing, and how often was he there, after kidnapping Lyanna?"

This kind of puts the whole Lyanna and Rhaegar love story into a bit of doubt...

Not really. Rhaegar was away at the time of the onset of the war - likely at ToJ - as Aerys looked for him for quite some time. He resurfaced, however, some time before the Trident, and his first task was to take command of the royal forces and take it to the rebels. This became the Battle of the Trident.

[ab aeterno]

Not really. Rhaegar was away at the time of the onset of the war - likely at ToJ - as Aerys looked for him for quite some time. He resurfaced, however, some time before the Trident, and his first task was to take command of the royal forces and take it to the rebels. This became the Battle of the Trident.

I think what we're told/have implied is that Rhaegar left the ToJ to return to KL to lead the royal army at the point at which it became clear that Robert's rebellion posed a real thread to Targaryen rule. Even then though, as Rhaegar says, Aerys feared Tywin more.

[The BlackBear]

Agreed; I was always under the impression that Barristan was still at the Trident recovering from his wounds when the Lannisters sacked King's Landing and Rhaegar's children were killed.

I'm sure he was at the Trident, but so was Robert I think. IIRC Robert was injured by Rhaegar. Which explains why it was Ned who comes across Jaime in the throne room not Robert. Presumably the bodies were presented when Robert reached KL.

[Septa Mary Frances]

If Rhaegar intended to do something about Aerys why, after waiting years and seeing the situation get worse and worse, did he not do something before leaving for the Battle of the Trident? Jaime gets flak for killing Aerys because people argue he could have just locked him up to hand over responsible authorities, even though Jaime did not really have the power to do this. Rhaegar on the other hand WAS basically looked to as the responsible authority in the royal family. Why didn't he just have Aerys quietly locked up in his quarters after Rhaegar arrived back in King's Landing? Have one of the maesters drug him up with milk of the poppy? Dismiss Rossart and put a competent Hand in charge to rule while Rhaegar went off to the Trident? Offer it to Tywin to get him and his army on Rhaegar's side? Or if there wasn't time to get Tywin or if he didn't trust him, bring Arthur Dayne back from the TOJ with him and make him Hand? Jon Darry and Barristan might have caused problems? Send them ahead with an advance force and present them with a fait accomplait.

Aside from the fact that it might have prevented a few more people from being burned alive and thus been, you know, the right thing to do, Rhaegar could have let it be known that Aerys had been quietly deposed and any and all rebels who wanted to stand down wouldn't suffer any consequences. It might have caused some depletion of Robert's forces which could only have helped Rhaegar's side in the Battle of the Trident.

Rhaegar gets a lot of credit from readers (and some characters) for thinking and talking about removing Aerys. The problem is he never actually did anything concrete.

[redviper9]

If Rhaegar intended to do something about Aerys why, after waiting years and seeing the situation get worse and worse, did he not do something before leaving for the Battle of the Trident? Jaime gets flak for killing Aerys because people argue he could have just locked him up to hand over responsible authorities, even though Jaime did not really have the power to do this. Rhaegar on the other hand WAS basically looked to as the responsible authority in the royal family. Why didn't he just have Aerys quietly locked up in his quarters after Rhaegar arrived back in King's Landing? Have one of the maesters drug him up with milk of the poppy? Dismiss Rossart and put a competent Hand in charge to rule while Rhaegar went off to the Trident? Offer it to Tywin to get him and his army on Rhaegar's side? Or if there wasn't time to get Tywin or if he didn't trust him, bring Arthur Dayne back from the TOJ with him and make him Hand? Jon Darry and Barristan might have caused problems? Send them ahead with an advance force and present them with a fait accomplait.

Aside from the fact that it might have prevented a few more people from being burned alive and thus been, you know, the right thing to do, Rhaegar could have let it be known that Aerys had been quietly deposed and any and all rebels who wanted to stand down wouldn't suffer any consequences. It might have caused some depletion of Robert's forces which could only have helped Rhaegar's side in the Battle of the Trident.

Rhaegar gets a lot of credit from readers (and some characters) for thinking and talking about removing Aerys. The problem is he never actually did anything concrete.

I don't think removing a king is an easy thing to accomplish in Westeros. Remember, it took five of the great houses to unseat the Targaryens. The Blackfyres never accomplished the feat, and they had sizable support from the lesser houses.

In the lead up to Rhaegar's abduction of/elopement with Lyanna, I think any possible removal would have hinged on Rhaegar's relationship with the lords of the great houses. Did he get along with Tywin Lannister? The Arryns? The Tullys? The Tyrells? We know he had a relationship with the Martells because of his marriage to Elia, and there's never been any sign of ill will between Doran and Rhaegar. That's why making connections at Harrenhal -- if we believe Varys's whispers -- was so crucial. By all acounts, Rhaegar was more introvert than extrovert, and he had a very small circle of friends; removing Aerys would have been risky if he didn't have the support of the great houses. And remember, though Aerys's madness was clearly growing by Harrenhal, the only great lord we know for certain that he had alienated up to that point was Tywin Lannister. The break with the Starks, Baratheons, Arryns, and Tullys came after Lyanna's disappearance and the deaths of Rickard and Brandon.

As for Rhaegar removing Aerys before leaving for the Trident, I'm not sure that would have been a lock, either. For one, we don't know how the four Kingsguard in King's Landing (Jaime, Barristan, Jon Darry, and Lewyn Martell) would have reacted. Would they have gone along? It's implied that Arthur Dayne -- and maybe the White Bull and Oswell Whent -- was on Rhaegar's side, but we don't know about the others (Barristan, for one, recalls that he wasn't a part of Rhaegar's inner circle, so he doesn't know what he had in mind). And I'm not sure Aerys's removal would have placated key leaders of the rebellion. Robert was rebelling as much against Rhaegar as he was against Aerys; same with Ned. I can see Jon Arryn and/or Hoster Tully willing to act as intermediaries, but I'm sure both Robert and Ned would demand Lyanna's return. What if Rhaegar refused? And, supposing Rhaegar accepted to return Lyanna and R+L=J is true, how would Robert and Ned have reacted to a pregnant Lyanna? And Tywin Lannister would remain a wild card. Would he swear fealty to Rhaegar? Or would he seek to test the new monarch?

[Ariane Martell]

I don't think removing a king is an easy thing to accomplish in Westeros. Remember, it took five of the great houses to unseat the Targaryens. The Blackfyres never accomplished the feat, and they had sizable support from the lesser houses.

Yes but this not Targaryen versus Other House, this is a internal fight. And for about ten years before getting killed the king was mad. Rhaegar had enough proof that his father was indeed mad, and the people sufferer from his actions. Why do you think Robert's Rebellion was so sucessful? People helped him, hiding him. I don't think Rhaegar would need to get to a point to hide, but if he did, people would help him. Plus he had friends in the KG, and from important family, and he was married to the princess of Dorne daughter, what you give him Dorne's support.

In the lead up to Rhaegar's abduction of/elopement with Lyanna, I think any possible removal would have hinged on Rhaegar's relationship with the lords of the great houses. Did he get along with Tywin Lannister? The Arryns? The Tullys? The Tyrells?

Everybody had a nice opinion about him, except Tywin, he seemed to know how to behavior as a highborn and he had great fighting skills. If he convided them he could win I doubt that at least some of them wouldn't follow him.

We know he had a relationship with the Martells because of his marriage to Elia, and there's never been any sign of ill will between Doran and Rhaegar. That's why making connections at Harrenhal -- if we believe Varys's whispers -- was so crucial. By all acounts, Rhaegar was more introvert than extrovert, and he had a very small circle of friends; removing Aerys would have been risky if he didn't have the support of the great houses.

I think he had a small group of close friends, the ones you talk about your feelings, and everything. That doesn't mean he only had that close friends as his friends. The great houses would be like co-wokers of his, he needed them, they had a connection and a proper relationship, but he wouldn't run to them drinking Dorne's wine and telling about his Lyanna feelings. When Barristan feel sorry for not belonging to his inner circle is because if he did he would maybe stop a lot of what happened, or would be able to tell more about him to Dany.

And remember, though Aerys's madness was clearly growing by Harrenhal, the only great lord we know for certain that he had alienated up to that point was Tywin Lannister. The break with the Starks, Baratheons, Arryns, and Tullys came after Lyanna's disappearance and the deaths of Rickard and Brandon.

Yes, indeed you're right. But I guess we would never know who would follow his ideals because he was too coward for too long. His father madness was a long time thing, it had been growing for years. The houses that were damage by Aerys or that had his heirs damage by him Jon Connington, would join Rhaegar.

And I'm not sure Aerys's removal would have placated key leaders of the rebellion. Robert was rebelling as much against Rhaegar as he was against Aerys; same with Ned. I can see Jon Arryn and/or Hoster Tully willing to act as intermediaries, but I'm sure both Robert and Ned would demand Lyanna's return. What if Rhaegar refused?

Then he would just proof to be the selfish duchebag that I believe he is. First if he loves Lyanna and Lyanna loves him he must trust her that she'll be back to him when it's over, and if she doesn't, good for her to get hid of him.

And, supposing Rhaegar accepted to return Lyanna and R+L=J is true, how would Robert and Ned have reacted to a pregnant Lyanna?

If R+L=J is true, we know that Ned would protect the baby no matter what.

And Tywin Lannister would remain a wild card. Would he swear fealty to Rhaegar? Or would he seek to test the new monarch?

I think so, dual his hate for what Aerys did to him

[Danelle]

Yes but this not Targaryen versus Other House, this is a internal fight. And for about ten years before getting killed the king was mad. Rhaegar had enough proof that his father was indeed mad, and the people sufferer from his actions. Why do you think Robert's Rebellion was so sucessful? People helped him, hiding him. I don't think Rhaegar would need to get to a point to hide, but if he did, people would help him. Plus he had friends in the KG, and from important family, and he was married to the princess of Dorne daughter, what you give him Dorne's support.

Everybody had a nice opinion about him, except Tywin, he seemed to know how to behavior as a highborn and he had great fighting skills. If he convided them he could win I doubt that at least some of them wouldn't follow him. I think he had a small group of close friends, the ones you talk about your feelings, and everything. That doesn't mean he only had that close friends as his friends. The great houses would be like co-wokers of his, he needed them, they had a connection and a proper relationship, but he wouldn't run to them drinking Dorne's wine and telling about his Lyanna feelings. When Barristan feel sorry for not belonging to his inner circle is because if he did he would maybe stop a lot of what happened, or would be able to tell more about him to Dany. Yes, indeed you're right. But I guess we would never know who would follow his ideals because he was too coward for too long. His father madness was a long time thing, it had been growing for years. The houses that were damage by Aerys or that had his heirs damage by him Jon Connington, would join Rhaegar.

Then he would just proof to be the selfish duchebag that I believe he is. First if he loves Lyanna and Lyanna loves him he must trust her that she'll be back to him when it's over, and if she doesn't, good for her to get hid of him. If R+L=J is true, we know that Ned would protect the baby no matter what. I think so, dual his hate for what Aerys did to him

An internal fight would make things more complicated as it happened during Dance with the Dragons when it was Targaryens vs Targaryens. Aerys was his father, mad or not and Rhaegar had to be very careful. One of the reasons why Robert succeeded was that the Lannister, a force to consider did not take sides until Rhaegar was killed. The other reason was that Aerys had totally lost his mind. This doesn't mean that the rebels didn't gought good or valiantly.Rhaegar was loved by the smallfolk but in a war against your king father you need the support of men like Tywin Lannister and Jon Arryn. Not to mention that House of Darry, the most loyal Targaryen supporters would be divided. Some lords would definately join Rhaegar but others would support Aerys because, well, he was the King. If Rhaegar rebelled the KG would probably be divided. Arthur and Jaime would most definately follow Rhaegar but would Gerold Hightower or the rest of them? I had started a topic about Rhaegar's Rebellion and several users posted interesting theories.

Why Tywin had a bad opinion on Rhaegar? Can you find the exact passage? I think it is very interesting.

In any case, there is a possibility that Rhaegar's rebellion would not be an actual rebellion, soldiers, battles e.t.c. but Aerys waking up one day to find himself in the Wall forced to join the Watch.

Rhaegar certainly should have moved faster, he was probably aware of his mother's abuse but the fact remains that Aerys was his king and his father. When Roose tells Theon about Ramsay killing Domeric he contemplates about his sons and asks what a father ought to do in that case. Kinslayer is cursed and that comes from a man who violated the guest right.

[redviper9]

Yes but this not Targaryen versus Other House, this is a internal fight. And for about ten years before getting killed the king was mad. Rhaegar had enough proof that his father was indeed mad, and the people sufferer from his actions. Why do you think Robert's Rebellion was so sucessful? People helped him, hiding him. I don't think Rhaegar would need to get to a point to hide, but if he did, people would help him. Plus he had friends in the KG, and from important family, and he was married to the princess of Dorne daughter, what you give him Dorne's support.

Everybody had a nice opinion about him, except Tywin, he seemed to know how to behavior as a highborn and he had great fighting skills. If he convided them he could win I doubt that at least some of them wouldn't follow him. I think he had a small group of close friends, the ones you talk about your feelings, and everything. That doesn't mean he only had that close friends as his friends. The great houses would be like co-wokers of his, he needed them, they had a connection and a proper relationship, but he wouldn't run to them drinking Dorne's wine and telling about his Lyanna feelings. When Barristan feel sorry for not belonging to his inner circle is because if he did he would maybe stop a lot of what happened, or would be able to tell more about him to Dany. Yes, indeed you're right. But I guess we would never know who would follow his ideals because he was too coward for too long. His father madness was a long time thing, it had been growing for years. The houses that were damage by Aerys or that had his heirs damage by him Jon Connington, would join Rhaegar.

Then he would just proof to be the selfish duchebag that I believe he is. First if he loves Lyanna and Lyanna loves him he must trust her that she'll be back to him when it's over, and if she doesn't, good for her to get hid of him. If R+L=J is true, we know that Ned would protect the baby no matter what. I think so, dual his hate for what Aerys did to him

True, while the roots would have been intra-Targaryen, the other houses would have gotten involved, as they always did in intra-Targaryen conflicts. It happened during the Dance of the Dragons, and it happened during the Blackfyre Rebellions. I personally think Rhaegar wouldn't have been able to pull it off with just the Martells and a few Kingsguard supporting him. It would have been absolutely critical to make sure that the other great lords would line up behind him and support his claiming the throne.

Regarding Robert during the rebellion, you're right, people did love him enough to hide him. But that particular instance -- the Battle of the Bells -- occurred in rebel territory (the Riverlands). The smallfolk hiding Robert, while impressive considering the risk they ran, would be more impressive if it had happened in the Crownlands or the Reach, i.e., regions held by the loyalist forces. And remember, while it's indicated that all the northern and storm lords rallied to Ned and Robert, not all the houses of the Vale and the Riverlands followed Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully. Ned's escape from the Vale was a close thing, and one of Hoster's biggest contributions to the war effort was putting castles and towns nominally under his protection to the torch because they remained loyal to the Targaryens, in spite of everything Aerys had done.

And while Ned may well have protected Lyanna and the child, what about Robert? He has no qualms about killing "dragonspawn." And would the Martells just stand by as Elia was either made to share the queenship with Lyanna, or possibly put aside?

Lastly, I'm not sure Rhaegar's actions -- or lack thereof -- can be simply attributed to his being a coward or a jerk. As Danelle points out above, whatever else Aerys might have been, he was still Rhaegar's father. It must not have been easy for Rhaegar, by all accounts a thoughtful and intelligent person, to come to terms with his father being a madman. Since we don't have a POV for him or anyone that was especially close to him (other than Jon Connington, but by all accounts he wasn't as close to Rhaegar as Arthur Dayne), it's hard to get at what was going in his mind. Judging by his final conversation with Jaime, he certainly regretted not having done something sooner, but we don't know the full circumstances behind his decision not to act. Now, that does not mean that he isn't responsible in large part for the rebellion by running off with Lyanna. What I'm trying to say is that, just like most every other character in ASOIAF, Rhaegar was gray; he most definitely wasn't the idealized "silver prince" of Jon Connington's memory, but that doesn't mean he was the personification of evil that Robert remembered.

[Ygrain]

Yes but this not Targaryen versus Other House, this is a internal fight. And for about ten years before getting killed the king was mad. Rhaegar had enough proof that his father was indeed mad, and the people sufferer from his actions. Why do you think Robert's Rebellion was so sucessful? People helped him, hiding him. I don't think Rhaegar would need to get to a point to hide, but if he did, people would help him. Plus he had friends in the KG, and from important family, and he was married to the princess of Dorne daughter, what you give him Dorne's support.

Aerys' state deteriorated gradually and his abuse of people was restricted to those around him, the smallfolk never even knew - for them, the realm was at peace, trade and agriculture prospered, i.e. Aerys was a good king. Also, the king is the highest liege and is to be obeyed no matter what.

As has been pointed out above, Robert was hiding in an allied territory and at that time, he had high charisma. His Rebellion succeeded because the Targs weren't taking it seriously at the beginning and didn't have a good commander, while we are led to believe that Ned possessed such skills.

If R+L=J is true, we know that Ned would protect the baby no matter what.

That's the omniscient reader talking. Even Lyanna herself was not sure what he would do until he granted her her deathbed wish.

[Danelle]

That's the omniscient reader talking. Even Lyanna herself was not sure what he would do until he granted her her deathbed wish.

:agree: Not to mention that Aerys had Lord Rickard and Brandon killed. Ned was no Tywin but still Lyanna had to ensure that her brother would protect the baby from Robert, his best friend. Robert was comfortable with someone else killing Rhaenys and Aegon but a child fathered by Rhaegar and Lyanna? He would kill it himself.

[redviper9]

Aerys' state deteriorated gradually and his abuse of people was restricted to those around him, the smallfolk never even knew - for them, the realm was at peace, trade and agriculture prospered, i.e. Aerys was a good king. Also, the king is the highest liege and is to be obeyed no matter what.

As has been pointed out above, Robert was hiding in an allied territory and at that time, he had high charisma. His Rebellion succeeded because the Targs weren't taking it seriously at the beginning and didn't have a good commander, while we are led to believe that Ned possessed such skills.

That's the omniscient reader talking. Even Lyanna herself was not sure what he would do until he granted her her deathbed wish.

:agree:

Especially the part about Aerys and Rhaegar not taking it seriously. In fact, Jaime remembers that it wasn't until after the Battle of the Bells that the Targaryens decided to mobilize their full strength. It was only then that Rhaegar appeared to lead the fight against Robert, Ned, Jon Arryn, and Hoster.

[Zupoleon]

:agree:

Especially the part about Aerys and Rhaegar not taking it seriously. In fact, Jaime remembers that it wasn't until after the Battle of the Bells that the Targaryens decided to mobilize their full strength. It was only then that Rhaegar appeared to lead the fight against Robert, Ned, Jon Arryn, and Hoster.

...and even then, Rhaegar went reluctantly - feeling obligated because of duty.

[Ariane Martell]

An internal fight would make things more complicated as it happened during Dance with the Dragons when it was Targaryens vs Targaryens. Aerys was his father, mad or not and Rhaegar had to be very careful. One of the reasons why Robert succeeded was that the Lannister, a force to consider did not take sides until Rhaegar was killed. The other reason was that Aerys had totally lost his mind. This doesn't mean that the rebels didn't gought good or valiantly.Rhaegar was loved by the smallfolk but in a war against your king father you need the support of men like Tywin Lannister and Jon Arryn. Not to mention that House of Darry, the most loyal Targaryen supporters would be divided. Some lords would definately join Rhaegar but others would support Aerys because, well, he was the King. If Rhaegar rebelled the KG would probably be divided. Arthur and Jaime would most definately follow Rhaegar but would Gerold Hightower or the rest of them? I had started a topic about Rhaegar's Rebellion and several users posted interesting theories.

You have pointed out excellent points. But the difficulties of him rebelling at any age, or year, would be the same. Nobody said it was easy to rebel, if he really intended that, but he had to. I mostly find it hard to believe that he was planing something because he could've done it years before but he didn't, and in the moment where he had the most problems he would rebel and get in more trouble?

Why Tywin had a bad opinion on Rhaegar? Can you find the exact passage? I think it is very interesting.

Oh no, I think I made myself misunderstood. Tywin had a bad opinion of Aerys. Aerys fired her after Tywin doing all his hard work for 20 years just because he was jealous, then Aerys not only rejected Cersei but offended her saying something like his son didn't marry someone so low born, and that affects a lot Tywin because he put a lot of afford to rewrite the Lannister name after his father who as "too soft". I think Tywin would probably support Rhaegar if he rebelled first, just to hurt Aerys. I don't think he cared much about the silver prince but he would had to pick a side, so he would be on Rhaegar's.

In any case, there is a possibility that Rhaegar's rebellion would not be an actual rebellion, soldiers, battles e.t.c. but Aerys waking up one day to find himself in the Wall forced to join the Watch.

Well he would have to fly in a dragon to go from KL to the wall so fast :lmao: . Serious now, yes, considering that he would convince all the KG or kill the ones who don't, I also think it would be like that. Aerys locked in a towel, maybe a trial, and he sent to the wall.

Rhaegar certainly should have moved faster, he was probably aware of his mother's abuse but the fact remains that Aerys was his king and his father.

I don't recall his mother abuse. Was she really abused? well another reason to take Aerys out of the power

When Roose tells Theon about Ramsay killing Domeric he contemplates about his sons and asks what a father ought to do in that case. Kinslayer is cursed and that comes from a man who violated the guest right.

I think Roose is a hypocrite, what he's done is far worst. But yeah, Kinslayer is seen as terible. But we aren't talking about a normal decent king, he was the Mad King, plus Rhaegar wanted to be a hero, he should know that a true hero can't always be praised, he should've batman up.

[Ariane Martell]

Regarding Robert during the rebellion, you're right, people did love him enough to hide him. But that particular instance -- the Battle of the Bells -- occurred in rebel territory (the Riverlands). The smallfolk hiding Robert, while impressive considering the risk they ran, would be more impressive if it had happened in the Crownlands or the Reach, i.e., regions held by the loyalist forces. And remember, while it's indicated that all the northern and storm lords rallied to Ned and Robert, not all the houses of the Vale and the Riverlands followed Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully. Ned's escape from the Vale was a close thing, and one of Hoster's biggest contributions to the war effort was putting castles and towns nominally under his protection to the torch because they remained loyal to the Targaryens, in spite of everything Aerys had done.

Yes certainly Rhaegar wouldn't always had a backup, only on friendly territory. But the point is that he would, he could've rebelled that he wouldn't be alone.

And while Ned may well have protected Lyanna and the child, what about Robert? He has no qualms about killing "dragonspawn."

I think Ned you put all his forces to protect the child making impossible to Robert get to him alive

And would the Martells just stand by as Elia was either made to share the queenship with Lyanna, or possibly put aside?

That's depends on what was Rhaegar's plan regard Elia. Targaryens have the tradition to marry more than one person, if he planned that and if it's was ok with Elia, I think Dorne would support him. But honestly I think if he was going to rebel he would've done it ealier before the whole Lyanna thing.

Lastly, I'm not sure Rhaegar's actions -- or lack thereof -- can be simply attributed to his being a coward or a jerk. As Danelle points out above, whatever else Aerys might have been, he was still Rhaegar's father. It must not have been easy for Rhaegar, by all accounts a thoughtful and intelligent person, to come to terms with his father being a madman. Since we don't have a POV for him or anyone that was especially close to him (other than Jon Connington, but by all accounts he wasn't as close to Rhaegar as Arthur Dayne), it's hard to get at what was going in his mind. Judging by his final conversation with Jaime, he certainly regretted not having done something sooner, but we don't know the full circumstances behind his decision not to act. Now, that does not mean that he isn't responsible in large part for the rebellion by running off with Lyanna. What I'm trying to say is that, just like most every other character in ASOIAF, Rhaegar was gray; he most definitely wasn't the idealized "silver prince" of Jon Connington's memory, but that doesn't mean he was the personification of evil that Robert remembered.

When I said about he being a jerk and a coward it was particually about this situation. In general he was indeed a gray character. I know it must had been hard to see your king and father going deeper and deeper in madness, but it was something that had been happening for quite a while and he couldn't change the fact that Aerys was both his father and a danger for everyone. But h took way to long to accept that, he was too deep in his dreams and fantasy. I know that he didn't watch the facts of Aerys madness as Jaime but he must've heard of most and seen things too.

Oh I know Rhaegar regretted not doing anything sooner, as was said before for many character he wasn't bad he had a kind part in his heart.

[Ariane Martell]

Aerys' state deteriorated gradually and his abuse of people was restricted to those around him, the smallfolk never even knew - for them, the realm was at peace, trade and agriculture prospered, i.e. Aerys was a good king. Also, the king is the highest liege and is to be obeyed no matter what.

Do you have proof that he never done anything to them? And even if you're right and he never did anything for the small folks, still he exiled a lot of people whose family didin't became big fan of the King after that, and I bet he must've broken some promises like he did with Tywin. And the realm was mostly prospering while Tywin was Hand Of the King, and everybody knew that in time Tywin was the one who really ruled.

That's the omniscient reader talking. Even Lyanna herself was not sure what he would do until he granted her her deathbed wish.

Don't you think she would make him promise again? I think she would and more than never. Plus we're considering that he would "free" Lyanna, maybe she would be alive or die in Winterfel, anyway she would protect Jon while she could it. And even if she died as she did, in the ToJ, Ned could've protect the baby like he did. Lyanna would never let anything happen to Jon, she wouldn't die without a promise. And please don't call me omniscient reader if you don't know me, Lyanna was dying in despair she made Ned promise just to get some peace, she was probably feverish, but if you really paid attention to Eddard Stark character you notice he had the most honor of all, he wouldn't let his little sister baby die, he didn't even liked when Elia's children died and they weren't his blood, he didn't need a promise, he would do it because it was right

[Ygrain]

Do you have proof that he never done anything to them? And even if you're right and he never did anything for the small folks, still he exiled a lot of people whose family didin't became big fan of the King after that, and I bet he must've broken some promises like he did with Tywin.

If he did then definitely not en masse, or else people wouldn't be remembering him fondly after only 15 years. And, exiling someone does not entitle the family to break their oaths of fealty. Him breaking a promise, perhaps - but he apparently didn't alienate that many, given the Targ support.

And the realm was mostly prospering while Tywin was Hand Of the King, and everybody knew that in time Tywin was the one who really ruled.

Which everybody? The lords, most probably - but hardly the smallfolk. The king's Hand carries out the king's will, and as it goes with people in such a position, he probably gets the blame for the bad decisions while the king gets the praise for the good ones.

Don't you think she would make him promise again? I think she would and more than never. Plus we're considering that he would "free" Lyanna, maybe she would be alive or die in Winterfel, anyway she would protect Jon while she could it. And even if she died as she did, in the ToJ, Ned could've protect the baby like he did. Lyanna would never let anything happen to Jon, she wouldn't die without a promise. And please don't call me omniscient reader if you don't know me, Lyanna was dying in despair she made Ned promise just to get some peace, she was probably feverish, but if you really paid attention to Eddard Stark character you notice he had the most honor of all, he wouldn't let his little sister baby die, he didn't even liked when Elia's children died and they weren't his blood, he didn't need a promise, he would do it because it was right

I believe you are taking unnecessary offence. "Omniscient reader" (or author) is a terminus technicus of literary analysis, referring to the fact that unlike the literary characters, whose access to information may be limited, the reader knows everything going on behind the scenes. Thus, you as a reader know Ned's thoughts and attitudes to events during those fourteen years later, and know for sure that he would never, ever, allow a child be hurt, no matter what. For Lyanna, however, he's a brother whom she hasn't seen in a year, who might be blaming her for the deaths of Brandon and Rickard and for the whole Rebellion, who might hate Rhaegar even beyond the grave, and whose unwavering sense of honour would compell him to disclose the existence of a Targ heir to his friend and king Robert. As long as Lyanna knew him, he had never been put into a situation where he would have to choose between love and honour, and the year he spent as a commander of the rebel forces may have changed him, greyed his character. It was no safe bet what he would do, and definitely not a bet a child's life could be placed on.

[Ariane Martell]

If he did then definitely not en masse, or else people wouldn't be remembering him fondly after only 15 years. And, exiling someone does not entitle the family to break their oaths of fealty. Him breaking a promise, perhaps - but he apparently didn't alienate that many, given the Targ support.

I don't think they remember him very fondly, he's known after all as the Mad King. It's not only Robert who calls him that. I think sending away your child or brother for no good reason is kinda of a reason to rebel especially if you trust who you are supporting. If you really think about it no one besides Robert, Tywin and the Starks had a reasons, shown to us, to support a rebellion against the king. But they did it anyway some for fidelity, like the Tullys and Arryn, others for promises.

I believe you are taking unnecessary offence. "Omniscient reader" (or author) is a terminus technicus of literary analysis, referring to the fact that unlike the literary characters, whose access to information may be limited, the reader knows everything going on behind the scenes. Thus, you as a reader know Ned's thoughts and attitudes to events during those fourteen years later, and know for sure that he would never, ever, allow a child be hurt, no matter what. For Lyanna, however, he's a brother whom she hasn't seen in a year, who might be blaming her for the deaths of Brandon and Rickard and for the whole Rebellion, who might hate Rhaegar even beyond the grave, and whose unwavering sense of honour would compell him to disclose the existence of a Targ heir to his friend and king Robert. As long as Lyanna knew him, he had never been put into a situation where he would have to choose between love and honour, and the year he spent as a commander of the rebel forces may have changed him, greyed his character. It was no safe bet what he would do, and definitely not a bet a child's life could be placed on.

Yes, and I understand why Lyanna asked for Ned to promise to her. But the inicial point was that Jon wouldn't be saved, and no matter what the circumstances I think he would, so he wouldn't be a problem to anyone