Northern Sword

Nice theory. fits together well. Aegon - Gon - Jon His true name, Aegon V Targaryen

Hmm. I see what you are saying. I did not use the right word. Rather than Deity/God, I guess I meant, tangible proof of magic. With Mel, we have seen shadow babies, clear cut magic. Even her getting poisoned with no effect is noteworthy. With Bran- maybe the only god like example we have to this point, we see him reaching out through the trees and back in time. There is a no question of validity here. Even Varys' recollection of the voice that was summoned. While second hand information, it seems more tangible than Davos' example. The voice was summoned when his (parts) were thrown in the fire, would that indicate R'hllor ? I cant think of another example of someone hearing a R'hllor' s voice though. Now that I am thinking of it, this is a fairly significant question. Where did that magic(voice) originate? What other origins of magic are there ? Warlocks and ...? When it comes to Davos, it is a shaky at best that this was a vision. Far more likely to be delirium or hallucination. 7 is the holy number. Davos is 3/7 of that ... I guess. I mean, that doesn't feel right. I gotta think a better explanation awaits us at some point.

Completely agree. Forrest Frey is quite different from the current Frey's. It will be refreshing to see loyal and capable Lord Frey. Although if the Frey's are shown from the green perspective, they will still be demonized.

Davos is one of my favorites. Was it a vision, or was it a dehydrated hallucination. Flip a coin. IF, he was representative of the Seven, would he be a singular aspect, i.e. The Stranger, Father, ? Can he represent all of them at once ? I have difficulty believing it. Can any one person represent 7 completely different aspects ? I would love to have a definitive magical event, which would give clarity from the Seven on this. Same goes for Euron.

Love this subject. A lot of these thoughts have ben bubbling in my head for years. The extreme gods on one end or the other may represent doom if either of these sides win a total victory. The eternal struggle of, R'hllor - Fire/Light, and Water/Dark - represented by the Drowned God(Deep Ones). Or you could look through the lens of Fire\Ice with fits more thematically as it is called ASOIAF. Which changes things a bit. R'hllor/Great Other In the middle is the The Old Gods(Earth) and The Seven(not air, surely- But what?), these gods have representation on both sides. i.e. The Stranger and The Others. Or simply balance. Both have life and death elements. Seems we are missing the air element. The thread of Cyvasse only has Red/Blue/Green was a good one. So, maybe Air does not factor in at all. File that under questions that still need answers. But it also looks like each faction has an Avatar for their respective god. Daenerys/R'hllor, Euron/Drowned God or Deep Ones, Bran/Old Gods. Again, The Seven don't, What does this mean ? I sure cant puzzle it out. Clearly, there is a magic component to R'hllor and The Old Gods. But what does that mean for The Seven and Drowned God? Taking this thought a step further. When looking at the Seven. Imagine if there is another Class yet to be revealed. The Seven already have anointed Knights and Priests. Imagine if a Cleric or a Paladin entered the story. Would be real helpful to fight the undead. I'm not sayin... just sayin. Would a character who fits this mold fit into the Avatar class for the Seven if revealed ? Unless of course, The Seven are represent by the Others as @Aldarion states, with the connection of stars. Never thought of that before. It Is plausible, as the Great Other would then slide into Avatar Status. But the fly in the ointment hear is the stranger is one of seven. The other six aspects seem contrary to the others and the walking dead. Surely the Maid and Mother don't fit into this narrative. So we see the result of the Prayer, but we have yet to witness the deity itself.

Brynden Rivers was a good boy, he never did anything wrong. Faithful and dedicated, loved archery. Lost his eye fighting for the king. Where as Bittersteel was a traitor. Rebel scum. Everyone knows the Brackens poisoned the tree. Desecration of a holy tree, for shame. The lows they go to, show their character.

Quite the predicament. I think the Others will make this a non issue once they attack. Nothing will be left alive once they run through the Wall and North.

It is a lopsided PR war against those up to no good Brackens. Only a monster would burn Raventree Hall. With Bran and the Old Gods resurgence, the Seven don't want no smoke. They have enough of a problem with Mel and R'hllor converting the faithful.

I agree as well... but love the Blackwood Favoritism. They rank as one of the most interesting houses. Fuck those Brackens. lol

To go forward, you have to go backwards. The watch is on its last legs. Better to resettle the Gift and protect the new holdings first. Fixing the watch is the much harder and longer road. Once settled, the revenue and food produced can be sent to the Watch instead of Winterfell, to help in the rebuilding, The watch needs men before anything else. It is a structural deficit that effects everything else. They cant even chop down trees and man the castles they have already. It is all for nothing anyway until the Others are taken care of.

A place like Queens Crown and others like it should be resettled. The mountain clans would be a good choice to do it. They have proven loyalty, they already live in the hard, cold north. The Flints have already proven to be able to rule lands and castles in the south. Each of the larger mountain clans could be given some land. Of course, an off shoot of the Starks would also be a good idea, similar to the Karstark's. Build everything with surviving winter as the main goal, i.e. farming and fishing, and storage of food. Defending the settlement would be important. So, the Starks would have to help build keeps, towers and walls. With mountains in the area, stone for building would be available(at least in the west). Then you could also look into what type of mining could be done to generate some $$$.

Right after it happens, you'd probably want to see how it settles out before doing anything rash. A couple selective killings to make it interesting in KL. I'm sure the Red Viper is capable of infiltration and he likes his poison. Building alliances would be crucial. I'd try and find disgruntled Houses where you can see a division. Dorne is too weak to instigate war. So Doran's patience was probably for the best.

That is an interesting observation. Westeros loves their connections to a Families heraldry. So a two-faced or mirrored sigil should be telling.

@Hippocras The overriding influence of Walder, when the mothers die would be considerable, especially to the heirs. So, the kids being more Frey(mentality) than Blackwood or Royce makes sense. Couple that with the idea of non-favored children of those other houses, being married into a powerful, yet looked down on house, could easily result in total loyalty to the House Frey. Especially when considering the prevailing attitude of the Frey's ... Don't get no respect - classic Rodney Dangerfield. Plus, there is so damn many of them. They naturally would compete for Walder's approval. I'm curious as to how many heirs have married Frey's ? What are the Frey's top tier marriages ? Blackwood and Royce gotta be at or near the top.

Agreed. With that many families branches under one roof, there is bound to be a significant contrast in opinion. I have yet to look into each branch, but it may be time. You would think Royce or Blackwood branch members would have strongly objected to the RW.

Blinded by revenge ? His POV chapter is fairly precise in detailing his reasoning. Blinding revenge is no where to be found.

Full Disclosure. I am on team Stark and have advocated for the death and destruction of House Frey with almost every word I have written. Their betrayal of the Starks and the breaking of Guest Rite is unforgivable. Yes, yes, I know some will argue. But that is not what this thread is for. The Frey's are most certainly not all bad, despite what I have said in the past. I am in full reread mode at this point, as I am sure many of you are as well. Something really stuck out for me when perusing The Rise of the Dragon. In light of my constant calling for Frey destruction, I ran across someone who went against my, written in stone position. So I wanted to give a respectful nod to a Frey and give credit where credit is due. For your consideration, I nominate Lord Forrest Frey as a Loyal and Honorable man, true to his word. Prior to The Dance, in 112 AC. The "Fool Frey" as they called him asked for the hand of the Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen. She was obviously way out of his league and he was rejected immediately. Yet, when called upon by his King, swore to uphold Rhaenyra as Heir. During The Dance, near 20 years later. A gallant and powerful Knight, Lord Forrest Frey proved his loyalty with action. By leading 200 Knights and 600 infantry into battle along side Lord Roderick Dustin against the Greens. This was despite the reluctance of other River Lords to commit. Meaning he led from the front(Walder should be embarrassed). Forrest Frey added his strength to Daemon Targaryen near the Gods Eye and proceeded to fight and die at the Battle by the Lakeshore, otherwise known as Fishfeed. In the bloodiest battle of the war, a prominent Lord Frey was in the middle of it. Even once dead, his wife Lady Sabitha Vypren who was a ferocious warrior in her own right, took up his standard and led House Frey into battle for Rhaenyra. Goes to show the culture at the Twins was far different then it is currently. By word and deed, both Lord Frey and his wife proved their loyalty. Earning them respect and honor. I'm sure there have been other examples of worthy Frey's, I just cant think of any. Is there another Frey or two that anyone can think of, that belongs in such company ?

I don't wander onto that side all that often. That is interesting, yet I have a limited knowledge of that subject. I do like a good Greek philosophical debate though. I may go take a look.

I'd imagine his opinion would shift considerably if a lion started eating him... The irony of the Lannister sigil being the end of Tyrion would be poetic. lol.

When I was referring to slaves wanting to be resold, I was thinking of a specific instance where a Teacher(slave) who taught a great masters children and was speaking of how much better life was as a slave. From how he was treated and his status to food, clothing and life in general. I can not remember if it was the show or the books now. (definitely thought it was the books) but that was the example I recalled.

Hmm, damn. You are probably right. I thought that was in the books. Agreed, no person would willingly want to be a slave. FREEEDOOOM ! Braveheart was on the other day, had to do it. Slave revolt in Volantis will be interesting, will be a good read. Yeah, he is walking a fine line. The guy has already been stabbed, so... I hope he comes back a little more ruthless.

My entire point is the cause and effect of Daenerys coming to Slavers Bay, Based on her credentials in leading(i.e. Her choices), Not sure how I am confusing my own opinion. A thousand years of the same system in place, which is then contrasted to what occurs once Daenerys shows up. Slavery has been the norm. Then she shows up. Regardless of what came before. We are analyzing what came after. At no point did I say she should do nothing. Nor is slaver reform(laughable) something I brought up. The whole point is looking at her actions, decisions and the outcomes . And yes, life is cheap in a slaver society. Again, not my point. I am not blaming Daenerys for slavery or anything else. I am simply looking at the outcome of her policies and the responsibility that goes along with those choices. Talking about cause and effect, did Zelenskyy not start bombing the Donbas in 2014 (cause) which then led to the consequence(effect) of invasion. Daenerys's record once she gets there is one of extreme violence as well. Lets not kid ourselves, she needed extreme violence for her to achieve her goals. Yes, she rescued some slaves. But she also uses slave soldiers to achieve her ends, with countless others dying as a result of her actions. Then there are the ex-slaves who asked her to be sold back to their masters. Which is crazy on the surface, but had a reasonable explanation. Clearly slavery is bad, but so was the result of her policies. How bad do things have to be, to have ex slaves ask to be resold. Failure to anticipate is the crux of the subject at hand. A society and ruling class that for millennia has been in charge, gets pushed out, killed and attacked. Obviously there would be push back here. This is an all or nothing type of environment. So, when analyzing leadership, she leaves something to be desired in both decision making and execution. I completely agree with you here. Leaving a garrison would have helped the council survive. All the bloodshed in Astapor may have been avoided. Ironically, saving Yunkai from being sacked contributed to all the problems she is having now. Not sacking the city and taking the head off the slavers there was her biggest strategic blunder. Overall, I'm a big fan of her, but as a leader... she has several self inflicted wounds, and she is responsible for countless deaths of those she said she was there to protect. #TeamJonIsTheBestLeader

Loyalty by Dagger. Classic. Jon understands his oath better then Bowen it would seem.

Agreed, he could see it, but Bowen, and his traitorous companions couldn't. People fear what they don't understand I suppose. Not totally surprising after all.

Daenerys toppled the system. Once the first domino fell, a chain reaction started that led to death and destruction at every turn. I'm not some Danny hater or anything, she ranks in my favorite characters. Yet, simply looking at results, forget intentions or pre-existing conditions... A LOT of people started dying as soon as she showed up in Slavers Bay. Including in her city, that she chose to stay and rule(not exactly doing a great job). She has created conflict at every place she has been. The question at hand is how good of a leader is Daenerys (or Jon) ? Regardless of intention, a leader that caused so much death and destruction to her own followers would NOT be my selection of best leader. It is great she has her army now, and has a hundred thousand followers calling her mother. But she is responsible for a million deaths and she lit a fire that led to the entire region going to war. She is being put though the fire to make her into what she will need to be to fight the Others. But that is not great for those following her at the moment. Fire and Blood, Her fire, everyone else's blood. Nope, Mordor needs a giant fire eye and orcs or you've got nothing.... JK, Just being a smart ass. Now that I'm thinking of it, The ol' fire eye in Mordor' closest comparable is Mel's god - Red R'hllor. Don't think you need to limit Haiti to the 18th century, it is a disaster rn.