Faera

I'm pretty interested in this idea. Frankly, I was worried we'd just be getting five Targ history shows.

I agree with those who say the match is unlikely to have ever come up organically. Given this was an era where the Lords Paramount were making dynamic matches for their sons and daughters, I doubt Rickard would have wasted his spare on a Dornish vassal family. There really just isn't anything to get out of it. It is much more likely than Rickard would have picked a wife from the Vale for Ned, probably arranged with Jon Arryn's assistance. Ashara's parents were probably hoping she'd make a good match at court from her position as Elia's lady-in-waiting... perhaps not realising that Rhaegar would end up staying on Dragonstone most of the time. So, odds are on, Ashara would have married another vassal in Dorne or the Stormlands.

We really don't know an awful lot about Ashara because everything we have heard has come from other characters observing her from afar. With Catelyn, there doesn't seem to even be any evidence that she even met the woman. She knew what she looked but that came from chattering servants. Even Barristan I would take all he says with a pinch of salt. He probably saw Ashara more regularly than anyone else but he doesn't seem to have had any meaningful relationship with her.

Indeed, but as I said, Hoster seems to have been well in with that spurt of dynamic marriages across regions with his plans for Cat for Brandon and Lysa for Jaime. Stands to reason he may have sought to do the same with Edmure.

I'd say so for the most part. There's no suggestion that his marriage to Catelyn did any more than disappoint that generation of fathers that their own daughters wouldn't be Lady of Winterfell and fostering outside the North isn't an unknown practice as many other houses practice it. They essentially started a war in order to get Eddard back when he was in prison, so they also had faith they'd probably get some nice rewards for their loyalty as well. We never see any evidence that the principle bannermen were displeased with Eddard Stark's rule. Manderly, Umber, Karstark, Reed, Flint, Mormont, Glover and Cerwyn are the principle houses of their areas and they seem to feel Eddard carried on the centuries of just Stark rule. Barbary Dustin dislikes the Starks, especially Ned, but that's due to a personal gripe. The Boltons disliked the Starks but there were centuries of distrust between the two families. As for the lower houses and minor vassals... I suppose their attitudes reflects their principle lords.

Plus, we can't rule out the use of magic. If the crannogmen remember all the lost arts of the First Men and historically have always valued magical abilities like green sight, it makes sense that just as magic is woven into the walls of Winterfell or the Wall, it also is a part of Greywater Watch -- and perhaps to an even greater extent.

You make a good point. Given the Freys haughtiness and the Reeds and their fellow crannogmen's territorialism, it isn't hard to believe that at some point in the past a blood feud arouse due to each side killing the other. In Meera's story to Bran, she notes that Howland made sure to cross the Green Folk during the night so the Freys wouldn't catch him ("He passed beneath the Twins by night so the Freys would not attack him,") indicating that both sides will take pops at each other if they catch sight of each other. Due to the crannogmen being stealthier than most, it probably is the case more often than not that the Freys are the ones caught in the wrong place at the wrong time than the other way around. At one point, Jojen tells us that the Neck is filled with dead ironborn, Andals, Freys and other knights who had drowned in their armour, indicating that any attempt to take the fight to the crannogmen ended in failure due to them being unable to navigate the marshes. It's incredibly morbid to think of someone sinking into the watery-earth under the weight of their armour and slowly drowning or suffocating.

Presumably, by removing the swords, Bran, Meera, Osha and Hodor have allowed the souls of Brandon, Rickard, Eddard (though his bones aren't there yet) and random unnamed King of Winter to "get out". If the reason for their bodies being locked away in the crypts and sealed in with swords is related to the Others rising then if the Others ever get within range of the crypts those corpses (as well as the ones with rusted away swords) could break out and attack Winterfell from within its Walls...

Oh, boy! If there is one group of people that I would truly like to find out more about, it's the Crannogmen and especially the Reeds of Greywater Watch. I want to know how they came to be the ruling house after the defeat of the Marsh king, why are they so loyal to House Stark and what knowledge do they possess. Jojen said as good as said they have hidden great knowledge among his people: "The secrets of the old gods," said Jojen Reed. Food and fire and rest had helped restore him after the ordeals of their journey, but he seemed sadder now, sullen, with a weary, haunted look about the eyes. "Truths the First Men knew, forgotten now in Winterfell … but not in the wet wild. We live closer to the green in our bogs and crannogs, and we remember. Earth and water, soil and stone, oaks and elms and willows, they were here before us all and will still remain when we are gone." So, they live close with nature and have a more immense connection with it. It might explain why Jojen likens his sister Meera's abilities so much with nature, staying so still she seems to disappear, having sharper ears and eyes, and being swift. There is a sense that being intune with your surroundings is a big thing for them. Greywater Watch is built on an artificial, man-made island (a crannog) and can be moved as and where Howland needs it to be. As they live in marshland, depending on the season and time, he might migrate it dependant on where water and wildlife are. I also think I read somewhere that some of the towers of Greywater Watch can be detached from the main "castle" (which I imagine is made of wood or some other light material, since it won't have a stone foundation being built on a crannog), perhaps suggesting that there are smaller crannogs attached to the main one where the larger "hall" or "holdfast" is located. The idea that no one can find Greywater Watch indicates perhaps that only crannogmen know what its rotations are. At different points of the year - or seasons - there might be several places where Greywater Watch patrols. Additionally, Jojen states at some point that there are trees far taller than Queenstower and Meera states they are numerous enough to be right next to each other, not allowing someone standing on top of one to "feel like a giant". This indicates to me that Greywater Watch can also hide among the waterlogged groves of trees and that it is relatively common for crannogmen to climb to the treetops to keep a look out for trespassers -- perhaps even having more stationary "crow's nests" in trees where Greywater Watch usually frequently. This is all just speculation, though. Also, it is worth noting that grey water isn't waste in the sense that black water is (i.e. contaminated with fecal matter). It's more like... bathwater. Obviously, the crannogmen don't have washing machines or sinks but the name "Greywater Watch" indicates that it was first built - or patrols - areas where humans exist: where they clean their clothes, bathe and wash their hair. It also probably contains a lot of organic waste from plants and oils. Either way, the "grey water" where Greywater Watch "hangs out" is some place the crannogmen keep separate from whatever springs they get their drinking water from and which ever river the lion lizards hang out in. It is possible though it seems the illness that affects them there is "greywater fever", which is the illness Jojen almost died of. A part of me wonders if perhaps living in the wet wilds would have helped the crannogmen develop an immunity to illnesses like greyscale, which are also heavily associated with water. There is also supposed to be a lot of rare herbs and plants that grow in the Neck (I think its mentioned offhandedly in the World book, but I'd need to find the quote) so they might have a surprisingly sophisticated knowledge of medicine. Something they would need since they don't have maesters. I think a large portion of the hostility is that when the first Freys built the crossing, the northern side of tje bridge directly borders into the Neck and Reed territory. Together with the Freys extracting tolls fairs to anyone who wishes to cross their bridge, you can understand why this would irritate the crannogmen. Meera also hints that the Freys have repeatedly tried to locate Greywater Watch and conquer it, so it really does sound like it is a genuine turf war with the Freys constantly trying to keep hold of the land north of the river and the crannogmen constantly kicking their men out. The Freys' slurs about crannogmen is that "don't fight like decent folk" -- this is because the crannogmen use guerilla tactics to defend their own lands and the causeway while the Freys presumably follow more Andal codes of battle. As the Crannogmen were completely left untouched by the Andals and the culture of knights and combat while the Freys do have knights and the like it's understandable why the two sides might have a personal dislike for each other -- they are culturally at odds as well as territorially. Well, there are plenty of places in the world that do eat frogs. While I wouldn't eat then ordinarily, I have eaten them before and they aren't all that bad. Bran himself conceeds this when he and Meera make a stew with frogs and fish later. The Reeds are only able to hunt animals that live in on their -- so frogs, fish, fowl and some mammals. They probably don't farm so much of the herbs and grains they have are probably only grown in gardens or foraged. This is the explanation by the maesters as to why on the whole crannogmen don't grow very big -- a lack of nutrition (presumably protein) in their diet. Ned probably wouldn't object to eating them as a grown man but Bran is only an eight-year-old boy and most kids at eight don't want to eat things they aren't accustomed to. If anything, I think he handled being confronted with frogs very well. Now he's had to eat them, and he's growing up more, I doubt he'll complain as much if the opportunity ever rises again.

Challenge accepted, eh? Well, the character the twist involves need not actually be the dead character themselves -- merely that one of the characters involved was dead c. S5. I would probably argue that the twist he came up with would probably be in relation to a character not mentioned in that little list of the dead. Then again, I think he was just running off names to make a point. If it really is Lady Stoneheart, she has her fingers in a ton of pies - that plot line could connect to the Jaime/Brienne plot, the rest of the BwB, the Freys or even the Bolton plot in the North if she makes it that far north. Jojen Reed also died very quickly in the show while he's still alive in the books (and I reject Jojen Paste utterly!) A possible twist there might involve Bloodraven/3EC's connection to him, since he's the whole reason they went looking for the 3EC. The consequences of that would affect Bran-Meera-Hodor-etc. If it does have something to do with the Dothraki characters like Mago, Irri, Rakharo, etc. then it may have something to do with Khal Drogo's death or how Dany came to be sold to him of all people. Perhaps Drogo's death wasn't just Miri's murder but a conspiracy. A twist with the Qarthian characters like Xaro Xhoan Daxos or Pyat Pree actually stretches pretty far. The former would probably tie into Daenerys/Barristan's plot lines with the latter (since Qarth is now at war with Meereen) - the trapping of Xaro in his own safe was a MASSIVE change from Qarth in the books. With the latter, it'd probably relate to Euron's plot to "take over the world". They might also connect to Quaithe. I can't really see a big twist coming out of Pyp and Grenn though, if it does happen, it will probably be related to Jon and the inevitable mini war about to break out at the Wall over his (attempted) murder by Marsh. Queen Selyse, Princess Shireen and King Stannis probably would tie into the war in the North and/or the mutiny at the Wall. Since these three characters aren't together they aren't necessarily tied into the same storylines. Stannis's position right now ties into the Winterfell plot, which might stretch to Mance Rayder and his spearwives currently trapped there within. Princess Myrcella... maybe something to do with Doran Martell's plot.

I wonder if he will actually die. Last we saw him his body was going into shock but there are people at the Wall who might intercede on his behalf to keep his body alive. Either way, characters like Beric and Lady Stoneheart show that resurrection powers do exist and the Ironborn essentially resurrect with medieval CPR. So, either way, I think Jon will be back after spending a few chapters or so in Ghost. This will hopefully negate too much permanent damage though it might result in Jon becoming more Wolf-like and assertive as a result. Also, I suspect knowing that some of his men would murder him like that will alter his outlook... a lot.

Well, from Lysa’s POV, yes it was cruel. She was a fifteen year old girl who had already been through a horrific ordeal being married to a much, much older man with know fertility problems - yep! That was unfair. Yet even then Cat remembers Lysa trying to make the best of it, excited at the possibility of having a baby. I imagine the countless lost children just drove her further and further over the edge. None of that makes it right to eventually kill her husband but I get how someone like Lysa ended up the way she is and I feel sorry for her.

All of that is certainly possible though I’m sceptical of the idea myself.

Buried her. Burned her. What else could he do? She'd have been dead. Edit: Do you mean who would have married Jon Arryn? Probably no one. His marriage Lysa was sort of a "bonus" as far as Hoster saw it. For Lysa's part, had she died, she would have been spared years of misery married to a man old enough to be her grandfather.

Firstly, the bolded text is pretty much the perfect description of Lysa and how I see her. Secondly, I agree that Cat probably had some advantages in her life that Lysa never had, making it hard for her to see beyond the world of Riverrun. Ironically, she sounds like she probably was once a bit of a "Sansa" character (though lacking the social intelligence, unfortunately) in that she comes across even as an older woman as a dreamy, young girl who just wanted to be loved and to have babies and be happy... Gosh, the more I think about it the sadder I feel. Either way, Cat also benefits from not having truly been exposed to that side of Hoster. Her being heir before Edmure was born probably gave her the mindset that she never would. Lysa, on the other hand, had to find out first-hand that their father had a warped idea of what was good for the family. Gosh, he's such a nothing character yet I really feel irritated whenever I have to think of Hoster Tully. 1. Everything about Hoster indicates to me that he would never have done that. In his warped mind I sure he thought he was doing Lysa a favour but he pretty much proved in his accidental poisoning of his own daughter that their family motto worked the reverse for him. He could never have stood the dishonour of his daughter having a bastard. If he had, Lysa would have been "ruined". Perhaps he would have tried to cover it up -- send the baby to live somewhere else and married her off to one of his bannermen who wasn't picky. He probably jumped at tossing her over to Jon Arryn because it's a big match and coming from a man who needs a girl who, at the very least, can get pregnant. 2. If the gods are good, the memory of what he did to Lysa would still have tormented him to the grave. Tansy was genuinely used to induce abortions in medieval times and high doses can cause a woman to miscarry. If Lysa was already over a month or more into her pregnancy, which she very well could have been, Hoster essentially induced a hemorrhage in Lysa by giving her moon tea. He's lucky he didn't kill her.

That's basically my point. It doesn't need to have come from anyone named or important, necessarily. I know a lot of people like to think someone like Varys or Ashara told him but I see no reason to presume that.

A lot of people tend to use A Search of Ice and Fire, if that's any help. Personally, I just used my Kindle.

I admit I feel sorry for Lysa. She was a full bag of crazy but that really is the end product of what was all and all a miserable life. Frankly, I'd go as far as to say that Hoster Tully is one of my most hated characters for what he did to her. He was a horrible man. Honestly, I do not blame Lysa for never talking to him or forgiving him. It was an horrible betrayal from someone any child is supposed to trust. Worse still, he almost killed her in the process. Then he married her off to a man old enough to be her grandfather... all when she was, what, fourteen? Fifteen? Then, her marriage to Jon Arryn was blighted by miscarriages, stillbirths and babies dying in the cradle. She had such a pitiful existence. Agreed!

Dark, so probably some sort of brown but not proper-black. The quote is: It's Daenerys's eyes that remind him of Ashara, not her hair.

Oh, poor ol' Barry! Ultimately, he's an old man looking back with regret over his life. He admits that no good could have come of telling Ashara his feelings and odds are a young woman like her wouldn't have returned those feelings anyway. She seems to have been the sort of young woman not wanting for male attention and she was hardly going to throw her lot in with a celibate Kingsguard old enough to be her father. Perhaps he vainly thinks that, had he won to crown her, she would have thought twice about dishonouring herself at Harrenhal. ...Truth is, I'm sceptical that poor Ashara got her rocks off with anyone or even had a baby. Seeing as I don't believe for a second it would be in Ned's character to do something like that (and I doubt he was romantically involved with her anyway), and while Brandon is more likely the "deflowerer", it is only speculative. I agree with @The Weirwoods Eyes though that perhaps the best indication that Ned wasn't the one who dishonoured Ashara is the fact Barristan seems to be very amiable towards Lord Eddard. For him to bluntly think of the one who dishonoured Ashara as just "Stark" is perhaps the strongest indicator it was Brandon who done-did-it if it happened. Even then, it really could be that someone just started gossip about her. As I said, she seems like a girl who got a long of male attention.

I sincerely doubt that would count for much in most people's minds.

After the Sack of King's Landing, Ned essentially went off to lift the siege at Storm's End and finish the war in the south. I suspect someone must have told him during the clean up job in Dorne.

Even if it's not what I would have done, it's still the impression I got at the end of ADwD. Presuming the Blackfyre theory is true, then they must have planned to utilise Aegon at some point. Even if he is the real Aegon, the moment they bring him into play Viserys's claim to the throne melts away, which would necessitate disposing of Viserys and maybe Daenerys too. She only really because worth anything more to them than marriage fodder once she got dragons.

I was always under the impression that they were always planning on using Viserys’s invasion to disrupt the kingdom and his own instability to weaken the realm further. Knowing how unstable he was, and the fact he was going to be invading with a Dothraki army who he had little to no control over, the idea was to feed so much discontent with the people that Aegon arriving with the Golden Company would seem like a saviour. It’s a bit of a convoluted plan - hence why Varys has had to change it so many times because it relies so much on getting, essentially, a popular uprising for Aegon and the GC (the latter of whom needed some good PR since veterans of the last Blackfyre Rebellion are still alive). Either way, Viserys was going to invade, muck up the peace of Robert’s reign and get ousted by the more pleasant Aegon. Then theJoffrey and Lannisters managed to make things unpalatable anyway - so Viserys’s death meant Varys shifted his focus to driving a wedge between the Lannisters. Thing with Varys is he was always adapting the plan but the end goal was always Aegon.

Agreed. I think Jon Arryn's death probably got Robert in a sentimental mood. Odds are on Joffrey would have married someone else. Given that Cersei was already slating Robert to be killed because she was frightened of him putting her aside for another woman (Margaery seems to have been the pick as far as Renly was concerned), it is unlikely that Robert would have had a chance to put the match to Ned before he died. Moreover I have a feeling Ned had thought about matches for his kids even if nothing was official (Even Jon's possible matches probably crossed his mind) and from the offset he didn't seem to want Sansa to marry Joffrey. I reckon Ned was probably looking to the traditional allies of the Starks - Blackwood and Royce - for any marriages outside of the North. Perhaps even one of the girls had been slated for Sweetrobin somewhere in his head. Also agree that Tytos should have asked Walder Grey specifically for his heir or his hero's direct line to be Genna's husband and no less. Truth is, as the Lord Paramount in the Westerlands, Genna should have married either one of her father's principle bannermen or the son of some other Lord Paramount.