EggBlue

yeah... but it would have been hell of a good idea to see all Velaryons in the war . because on one hand, both Laena* and Vhaegar needed their moment before she dies and Vhaegar turns into Aemond's roasting machine and on the other hand, we needed to see Rhaenys and Maelys in action before their fall against Aegon and Aemond . then again , even Laenor and Seasmoke moments were lost . *whilst watching Daemon's .. err.. issues , did anyone think why on earth would the adorable Laena from previous episode ever consider marrying him?!

I feel like they didn't put enough time to show that though . of course, we know it because we love the material and pay close attention to what they say . but as I said earlier , for it to be a better episode especially for the new audience , they should have spent more time on Stepstones and Velaryon/Daemon's endeavors. it would not only have helped the war scenes A LOT , but it also would have been better on character levels for Daemon , Laenor and Vaemond . right now ,we only know Daemon has issues , well , show us how frustrated he is by his failure that he hits a messenger like that or runs to his suicide . we don't properly know who is this guy shouting "Dracarys!" and we do not know if Vaemond had always been this whining prick or it's the war's toll on him.

6.5. the other two were better . this episode suffered a lot when it came to editing and it needed some more material on the Stepstones so we can see why Daemon gets angry that he's in need of his brother , introduce Laenor properly and see Vaemond getting frustrated by Daemon and the war to reach the point to disobey his brother.

all in all , I found this episode to be weaker than previous ones , although , I'm not sure it's because I was more excited for this one beforehand or not . this episode certainly had positive points as well as negative ones . I initially wanted to talk about positive aspects as well, but I see that my complains went on more than I intended , and they all go back to editing , one way or the other. it felt like two episodes . they should have put some stepstone +crabfeeder scenes in the middle of the hunting/feast scenes . I liked the shift between war in stepstones and feast's extravagant table very much . it showed perfectly well why it's a good idea for Viserys to support the war.... too bad the show went on to finish hunting episode before visiting stepstones . the tone of the show has become gloomy far too soon . yes , Aemma died in episode one and all, but this felt like it was closing to the end. they both failed Laenor and did him justice if that makes any sense ! I get that they wanted to show Laenor as Rhaenyra's suitable match by showing him speaking in their council and later attack atop Seasmoke , only to later show he is gay and the marriage would be doomed. they should have introduced Laenor by name in episode one when Corlys talked about Rhaenys already having a son . now that they didn't, they should have had Strong mention his most important advantage : he already rides a dragon ! dragon riding ability must be a HUGE deal when it comes to marriages . the reason Velaryons are as big of a threat as they are is that they also have dragons . Lannisters and any other who want to marry Rhaenyra will become a third dragon riding family! then they go on to the war council where Laenor is supposed to be established as a warrior (which could be edited right after talk of him by Strong by the way!) . but we do not really see him well enough , the focus is on Daemon! the whole stepstone sequence is a huge failure . I'm not going to say anything about Daemon's plot armor and the Crab disappointment as only by reading the first page of this thread , I see that it's been discussed enough! the thing with the step stones is that it's been build up, build up, build up for 3 episodes and then a jump right into the conclusion ! there's no middle ! we don't see why Daemon and Velaryons are so frustrated and overwhelmed , we don't see how Daemon is the reason they're losing . we don't see why Vaemond goes behind Corlys's back to send a letter to Viserys himself . we only hear about them ! but that is good enough because we don't EVEN HEAR why the hell Corlys allied himself with Daemon ! we don't see any gold cloaks or men specifically loyal to Daemon . there are all Velaryon men with Velaryon commanders and Velaryon dragon and then there's Daemon , Corlys's "teenager" adopted son with his odd pet ,who is causing them losses through his tantrums ! also , let's talk about Laena Velaryon and the most terrible dragon of the time . where are they? I mean ... I'm cool with not showing Laena claiming Vhaegar ;considering later Aemond scene , it would have been repetitive . but man , they needed to show or mention that Laena rides Vhaegar now . they could either put her in Driftmark to hear about Stepstones and pull an episode2 Rhaenyra to take her dragon to trouble without leave , or they could put her in the court to show us she and Rhaenyra start bonding . but more easily , Strong could mention her in his little advice :" with Vhaegar under lady Laena's command and Laenor riding his own full grown dragon , an alliance with Velaryons is more crucial than ever " my positive points all go to the Greens . as much of a Black supporter that I am , it's good to see they try to show Green councilors (Alicent , Tyland ,Larys , even to a certain surprising extend Otto ) as good guys and , in case of Tyland , possessing a brain and empathy for the realm. although , I preferred very much for Alicent to suggest Aegon and Rhaenyra's match after talking with her father about Aegon's rights, torn between what her faith has taught her to be her son's right and her faith in her old friend .

I found myself thinking the exact same thing ! they were subverting expectations I suppose

yes , I agree . it's a myth . it's worth noting that as long as Dance is considered , Gylidane seems to favor the side of the male ruler . it happens when he writes about Rhaenys and Viserys in great council and again happens when he questions Viserys's decision , for I think writing specifically that Viserys was cut and Rhaenyra was cut is a clear indication that he believes making Rhaenyra heir was wrong . when it comes to IT and monarchs in general , there's a good chance that they all cut themselves at one point or the other (if you know , it wasn't all imaginary tale). it was a bunch of melted swords after all ! only , after Viserys's case, it became the myth you talk about here .

an interesting interview with Eve Best and Steve Toussaint about Velaryon's family dynamics. the interviewer asks Steve whether Corlys favors one of his children over the other . to which he answers of his own understanding of the character rather than the scripts per se' . he says that Corlys seems to favor his daughter more and is harder on Laenor . which I conclude as he probably does blame Laenor for not siring children of his own. probably a contributing factor to why he's seemingly fine with Rhaenyra . another interesting part to me is that during casting process they have apparently talked about Corlys's fatherhood aspect more than anything (Steve mentioned that in previous interviews as well) . a huge aspect in old Corlys considering he is pretty much done with ambition after Rhaenys's death and just wants to see all his grandkids (and adopted grandkids aka, Aegon the younger) survive the war. and with that notion in mind , I finally have a good guess about "history does not remember blood, it remembers names" ... probably Laenor , like Rhaenyra, refuses the marriage... reasons with his father that Driftmark could go to Laena's children as she is also Corlys's blood . to which Corlys likely replies" you idiot , they are Targaryens !"

there's certainly concern about that issue . however , they can pull something like that off considering that we'll continue with the main characters such as Rhaenyra , Alicent and Cole . I guess we can only wait and see ... my main concern for the show , is how they'll deal with second generation cast, since with the structure they have for season 1 , half of the first generation characters will die after some scenes for merely 2 episodes and are basically just there to have children! in GoT for example , Arya , Sansa , Robb and Joffrey were hardly center stage in season 1 but they were all properly fleshed out in later seasons . if this show can do the same for twins , Strong Velaryons , Aegons and Aemond one-eye , then it can be a pretty good show . otherwise , it's got the potential to be a show that you never get attached to anyone , especially that the main cast who will be there for start to finish are not exactly going to stay likable for long. not to mention , A LOT of new characters keep coming in , Daeron and Dragon seeds the most obvious ones .... they have to deal with Peake , Hightowers , Lannisters , Stark , Jeyne Arryn , Blackwoods ..... thinking of it , I do not envy the showrunners at all

change of the topic and getting back to our least favorite knight , ser Criston Cole . in one of his interviews Fabien Frankel does mention that Criston becomes a completely different character after the major time jump . so , obviously they are going with the perfect knight who's soiled with his own revenge seeking obsession. however , jokes aside , it'll be a good idea to pull a reverse show Jaimie arc on him! meaning after the obvious arc he slowly gets remorse for his actions especially after seeing the atrocities his favorite student , Aemond, inflicts on people . the reason I think it could be a good idea goes back to Cole's end in F&B . as the only non-nobility character , it's somewhat sad to see him as the only one who dies like a commoner despite his station. and while he completely deserves being denied a heroic death , I find the whole situation a bit unfair due to his heritage. and I think it'll add some layers to it if he doesn't fully deserve that death.

I will never forgive(a bit harsh I guess!) them for not properly fleshing out pre Dance characters (Laena , Harwin , Laenor , Luke , etc.) . but as I've said before I understand they want to hit hard at the end of the season. without the first dance between Luke and Aemond , there's nothing new to the show . you've got some family drama in an old setting and yes there are dragons .. but so what? ... those dragons need to fight. thus , I'm putting my hope on the next three-four seasons where they can pretend, other than clear exceptions, main characters are the second generations and flesh them out A LOT. like, someone like Jace can easily be a Robb Stark figure and with 3-4 more seasons , imagine what they can do with Baella , Addam , Daeron, even Aegon II and the rest....

my friend's favorite character so far is ser Criston Cole...sigh.... and it doesn't help that Fabien Frankel is so freaking charming in his interviews!

I mean.. both Valyrians and First Men could easily be non-white if GoT ever gets a reboot. for Valyrians , they will even look more God like if they add proper eyebrows and purple eyes. and first men are basically a different race from Andals . make First Men Black and Andals white and all Westeros will be diverse. lol heck even making Baratheons mixed raced (considering Targ heritage ) would work perfectly with "the seed is strong" plot.

if she looked down upon Westerosi nobility the way you suggest , she wouldn't have seen Harwin as worthy to go to so much trouble for . she could change her paramour as soon as Jace was born or take a man with valyrian blood as paramour . perhaps , Daemon who wasn't married to Laena at that point , another Velaryon or she could downright have her father order Laenor to do his duty as a husband . by that view , we should despise every Targaryen who sought rulership over Westeros.

the point is , she has 3 sons with him that the likes of Alicent look down upon for not having Targaryen features . yet, Rhaenyra keeps having an affair with Harwin of all people and elevates his sons as true heirs to the throne , although she's got real Targaryen sons. it's evident that she doesn't see Harwin or her sons as lesser . and if she doesn't look down upon Strongs , I don't see what's there to say she looks down upon the rest of them . mind you , we never hear her complaining about her half brothers for being half-Hightowers . errr....no .Alicent doesn't want to stick to Westerosi culture. she and Otto want their blood on the throne , that's all.

well , that's true , it wasn't in their culture . but there's a gap there , we first meet 9 yr old Rhaenyra welcoming Alicent to the family . later , when she is 14 and Daemon comes to visit , one of the highlights for her is that he makes fun of Queen's faction . how did that happen? ! besides , there's nothing to say they weren't "plotting" against her .they might have thought it would all be so easy . maybe that's why that later on they push the idea of Strongs so hard . king is alright with that . Rhaenyra's husband is alright with that . but Greens clearly wanted to estrange the Velaryons from Rhaenyra . that's enough plotting to me. all Westerosi nobles are more or less elitists , probably with the exception of Arya Stark. difference is Targaryens actually have something to put their claim on , unlike, say, Lannisters or Hightowers . however , I can't see how Rhaenyra can be an elitist when her three eldest sons were sired by Harwin Strong .

she is the evil step mom in F&B . I mean , pawn or not, any person who can enter a 9yr old's life and make a faction to work against her interests is evil. by the way why do you hate Rhaenyra?

the next show they make , let's say something about Blackfyre rebellion or anything else down the line, could feature Targaryens as mixed race with siver hair . especially with so many times they married Velaryons and the Dornish . it could all be alright with a reboot of GoT where Dany is mixed race.

well there are possibilities: 1. his condition is like Shereen's . he is a prince and he has enough money to hire professionals 2. he's made his men so rich that they turn a blind eye to the situation 3. he was like Jon Con at the beginning and he's hidden his illness for so long that his men had no choice/ were to stay by his side , albeit with a reasonable distance dire need of diversity in the show and it can happen I think

that's not fair ! we can't argue with you! I was just going to support C.T's argument on this

too soon Bard . too soon

on a second watch , I find it more unnecessary to age down Laena and use a child actress . although Viserys complained about Laena's age here and there , there were more reasons for him to turn down the match. and the whole Viserys's issue with ages will go down the toilet when he potentially considers Aegon for Rhaenyra. in the end of the day , he mostly wanted to show Corlys who's the boss . it honestly seemed to me that he was frustrated by Corlys's proud . not to mention , this version downplayed the oddity of him choosing Alicent instead of other candidates . if their problem was that Viserys could not possibly turn down Vhaegar's rider , well, then they could have Laena claim her dragon at the age of 16-17. P.S.I hope they do justice by Laena/Daemon relationship . although I don't know how they're gonna do that considering that in the next episode she just turns 15! and yes, I favor "singer" version of the story there!

yeah. a nasty break up + a power imbalance between princess and stable boy + a vengeful ex lover that cannot let go after 20 years

I finally got to watch the promo for episode 3 , and damn ... I did not expect to find myself so excited for Stepstones! but I am excited . another thing there , I know we've been focusing on how aging up Rhaenyra has whitewashed Alicent for the beginning of the series ( I still think we can properly hate her in future!) , but the impact is much higher on Criston Cole ... I mean , as Rhaenyra's sworn shield throughout her childhood , Criston feels much more like a creepy uncle figure than Daemon ever did , considering Daemon left when she was a kid and returned when she was a grown woman (by Westerosi standards of course) . this has totally changed the dynamic there and in this version Rhaenyra could potentially be the bad guy in that story...

well , it seems we might actually get to read Winds one day .... is it wishful thinking to hope Dream of Spring will be easier for George to write?! I've been seriously thinking about it and if George manages to kill people here and there and bring arcs together here and there , the whole story would be a bit easier to write .

this is one of the show-reviewers that unlike a bunch I've seen , has actually paid attention to who's who and what's what ! no confusing Rhaenyra and Rhaenys , no thinking Rhaenys and Viserys are siblings and finally no opinion of "too many blonds"! enjoy!