SeanF

@The Bard of Banefort@Lord Varys When Ned crossed to the Iron Islands, he brought fire and sword, even if it's part of his back story. Lordsport and other settlements were torched, and one can assume that the standard horrors of medieval warfare were inflicted upon the inhabitants. Robb's chevauchee in the West was presumably, a form of warfare he learned from his father.

Wyman Manderly, and his Frey Bentos pies, I do find hilarious.

To me, the two big moral dilemmas that are presented in ADWD are Jon’s wanting to save lives v preserving NW neutrality; and Dany’s choice between war or peace with the slavers. But, they don’t really work as dilemmas to me. It seems plain that both the Boltons and the slavers must be destroyed.

Nor Poland/Lithuania.

It’s possibly better, if that ruler is accountable to anyone other than a few magnates, who laugh when the smallfolk are compared to dogs and horses by one of their number.

The show played up Bran’s nastiness, intentionally or not. He breaks Hodor’s mind, and forces him to sacrifice himself. He’s completely indifferent to the deaths of Hodor and Jojen, and dismisses Meera. He freaks Sansa out by telling her how lovely she was the night of her wedding to Ramsay. He spies on Jon and Dany having sex. He encourages the parentage reveal, but never lets Dany know about the ambush at Dragonstone. Then we get “why do you think I came all this way.” Finally, he kicks Jon into the wilderness. Bran, as I saw him, was just a user and manipulator. He was a creature out of some low-budget horror film.

I do think that the idea of an all-knowing ruler, who can scramble peoples’ minds, and read their thoughts, is hard to sell as a happy ending. As a horrific ending, it would work fine.

One could probably add Rhaena (psycho lesbian), Visenya (likely murdered her nephew), and Lysa (completely round the bend) to the list. And, if Sansa follows the show, then she becomes a treacherous schemer. There does seem to be a theme that women are acceptable in an advisory role, but not as rulers. And, I don't blame the writers of HOTD for not following that theme. But, from what I've read here, they've gone too far in trying to exonerate Rhaenyra and Alicent.

The MP who modelled himself off Rugrat, in The Wolf of Wall Street.

One can only speculate about the reasons for TWOW not being published, and I can really only think of two big ones: 1. Far too many new characters, and new plotlines, were introduced in AFFC and ADWD, in place of the five year gap, which cannot now be easily resolved and/or, 2. From the reaction to the show's ending, he knows that his intended ending will go down like a cup of cold sick, among many long-term readers. An author may say he'll write what he likes, but no author wants to get the reaction that Season 8 produced. The ending to the show was far closer to grimdark, ineptly written, than to bittersweet. That said, if the tale's intended ending is Bran, Tyrion, Sansa et al using, and then screwing over, Jon and Daenerys, I'd respect it, even if I did not like it.

IMHO, it would be worth writing something similar to Tad Williams’ The Heart of What Was Lost. It tied up loose ends from the first set of books, while setting up plots for the next.

Something underwhelming.

One who I think is a better - and certainly more focused and self-disciplined - fantasy writer is @Joe Abercrombie. But, unless and until some TV company adapts The First Law, he’ll never have the same size of fan base as Martin. Tolkien’s fan base is humungous, but we’ve got - pretty much - everything of his that was ever written. i just think it’s sad that Martin produced all these compelling characters - and all we’ll ever find out about the conclusion to their stories is the crap we got in later seasons of GOT.

I think that’s correct. Both Ned and Cat want Sansa to be the perfect lady, and shielded from the realities of the world. And yet, despite the world’s patriarchal nature, noble ladies are still expected to do things like supervising executions of brigands, or standing sieges, in the absence of their husbands.

Enemies to lovers is hugely popular in fanfiction, and Rhaenicent is the most popular F/F ‘ship. The show runners are trying to appeal to that part of the fandom. Lovers to enemies is truer to life.

I see Shae (in the books), as quite unpleasant, but still a victim (of both her father, and Tyrion). It seems clear to me she has no loyalty towards him, but also, she has no reason to be loyal, towards a man who fails to uphold his end of a cash bargain. Then again, I’m biased, because I dislike Tyrion. At some point, to me, he shifted from amusing rogue, to malicious creature.

Matilda of course, bears no relation to Rhaenyra, in either book or show. Isabella is the queen you can have most fun with (allegedly ordering the murder of her husband, and feasting, as she and her lover watch Hugh De Spenser being hanged, drawn and quartered). Maurice Druon’s version of her is the inspiration for Cersei in the books.

@SionLordofPainThere are many female rulers, in real history, or fiction, that you can draw upon for inspiration, who were neither peerless saints, nor mad queens. I don't see why one can't have Rhaenyra and Alicent as being period-typically ruthless and ambitious, whilst still remaining somewhat sympathetic and engaging.

@HairGrowsBackIf there’s a Walter White in this book tale, it’s Tyrion. All the anger, the pride, the bitterness at being denied what he sees as his due.

“Only Cat” has a real bite, as a parting shot, that’s lacking with “your sister.” I’m surprised he should have praised Shae’s death scene, given he’s also described her murder as Tyrion’s worst act. In ASOS, it’s purely spiteful, with no element of self-defence. It’s the point of no return for Tyrion, before he gets worse in ADWD.

@The Bard of Banefort @HairGrowsBack Replacing “Edd, fetch me a block”, with “Olly, get my sword,” is one of those inexplicable changes. As indeed was the whole Olly storyline. But to my mind, the biggest and worst, and which is related to Shae, was the determination to change Tyrion from “the villain” (in Martin’s own words), to a near-saint. Tyrion is the Richard III/Iago of the books, and to alter his character by 180 degrees changed everything, as well as robbing Tyrion himself of his intelligence.

@FictionIsntRealI would emphatically not read ADOS if D & D were authorised to write it. I could get some satisfaction from TWOW, even if the series were never completed, because it would give us the endings to AFFC and ADWD that were missing.

Indeed. Maelor’s only role is to be torn apart, and for his murder to provoke the sack of Bitterbridge.

@The Bard of BanefortI think that Game of Thrones (the main show), probably poisoned the well for anything that came after, and trying to tie H O T D into it was fatal.

I don't think you can apply "the human heart in conflict with itself", to every character in this tale. The more sympathetic characters might be various shades of grey, but there are characters who are rotten to the core, or else, not far off being rotten to the core. Honestly, I'd hate to see this series go the way of Marvel.