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Sator Arepo

If the Others can't cross the Wall, why worry so much?

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I was thinking about this. There is supposedly some magic in the Wall which keeps the Others from crossing it, probably the same reason that kept Coldhands (or Blackhands? I don't remember).


If so, why worry so much about the Others? Ok, it is not a comfortable thought to know that an army of White Walkers is massing beyond the Wall, but the threat seems somewhat small; at least the Night's Watch should have time to react. Would they break the Wall (perhaps with the Horn of Joramund)? Cross it by sea?


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Remember the story of the Nights King? The Others definitely have ways they can manipulate humans and get them to join there cause, and that was after the Others were defeated and depleted(Or sleeping who knows). Now they are returning in mass numbers, things are definitely going to be worse than that incident.



Though because of the Walls magic field, its suspected that they need some way of lowering it, the question is what is the Wall really made out of? It cant be just Ice,that's not Magical, Weirwood however is....could the wall be Weirwood(like the weirwood door at the Nightfort) with Ice covering it? We know who has magical connections with the Weirwood(greenseers) and who is that? Bran.....and Bran is near Bloodraven who is helped by a sentient Wight and has COTF around that also connect with the Weirwoods....things are adding up in my head lol


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Even if it were completely impossible for the Others to bring down the Wall, you would need to worry about an army of them gathering. The magic that keeps away the Others doesn't seem to affect wights, and sending in a few by subterfuge very nearly killed the Lord Commander. Just imagine what would happen if there were endless swarms of them, with dozens of unmanned castles along the Wall.


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The Wights inside the wall remained dead. north or south of The Wall ..............

Wow I never put two and two together to realize that the bodies in the ice cells weren't reanimating due to the Wall itself. Huh...interesting.

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There is supposedly some magic in the Wall which keeps the Others from crossing it,

Mrs. Night's Queen made it through and ruled with her husband, the NK, for freakin' thirteen years at the Nightfort. It would be interesting to know how's that possible (if that story was true).




The Wights inside the wall remained dead.

Except Othor who tried to kill LC Mormont and Jafer Flowers who killed 5 guys.




Edit: messed up quotes


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The Wights inside the wall remained dead. north or south of The Wall ..............

Or it is a Wight or a corpse. The bodies Jon put in the ice cells, unlike Othor and Jafer, weren't reanimated before. If the bodies could be reanimated by the Others at south side of the Wall, the war would be already over.

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There's some line from Old Nan that the Others cannot pass "so long as the men of the Night's Watch stay true". Maybe that means Bowen stabbing Jon will somehow cause the collapse of the Wall. Then Bowen will feel really stupid I'd wager.


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Two things are definitely true:


  1. Wights can't cross through the wall under their own power
  2. Once across, they can continue their mission (as happened in the Lord Commander's Tower)

I am now starting to wonder what would have happened if the had put Othor and Jafer into ice cells instead of taking them to Castle Black.


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There's some line from Old Nan that the Others cannot pass "so long as the men of the Night's Watch stay true". Maybe that means Bowen stabbing Jon will somehow cause the collapse of the Wall. Then Bowen will feel really stupid I'd wager.

Jon betrayed the Wall. Execution is the punishment for treason. Bowen wasn't "not true", he did what should be done. The problem: Jon is a POV character with a lot of fans but he betrayed the Wall...

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What if all the dead on the other-side of the wall raise when winter has comes unlikey given the fact that the wall has no southern defenses but what if


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There's some line from Old Nan that the Others cannot pass "so long as the men of the Night's Watch stay true". Maybe that means Bowen stabbing Jon will somehow cause the collapse of the Wall. Then Bowen will feel really stupid I'd wager.

Depends on which side (Bowen's or Jon's) people see as "true."

Jon betrayed the Wall. Execution is the punishment for treason. Bowen wasn't "not true", he did what should be done. The problem: Jon is a POV character with a lot of fans but he betrayed the Wall...

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I don't think the deads on the south side will rise - the Wall has been put at this very spot for some reason.



But there's some concerns to have about the Wall - "A wall is only as strong as the men who guard it", or something in this idea. The Wall defends itself and the Others cannot go under it. It's safe to assume they can't climb it. But they could very well go around it.



The main concern tho is in the Night's Watch. The Watch make solemn vows and is there to guard the Wall. It may be that the Wall's magic is tied to the Watch itself.


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Jon betrayed the Wall. Execution is the punishment for treason. Bowen wasn't "not true", he did what should be done. The problem: Jon is a POV character with a lot of fans but he betrayed the Wall...

How did John betray the Wall??? The wildlings aren't the real enemy, the Others are. And everyone on the Wall knows this since the assassination attempt on the Old Bear...The whole point that GRRM is making is that so many people on the wall like Bowen Marsh and the other Jon Snow enemies can't see past their noses.

As Lord Commander, Jon would have the authority to decide how to deal with the wildlings and the only people guilty of treason are Bowen Marsh and the others.

Plus, we don't just see Jon's actions because he has a POV, we see him because of Sam's as well...Jon only strengthened the Wall by making allies with other men "wildlings" against everyone's common enemy the Others.

So, back to my original question...How do you possibly think Jon betrayed the Wall?

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The MOST SIGNIFICANT CRIMES OR OFFENSES of the NW "in general" to authenticate that this organization of men is no longer "true" and deserving of a protective magic c, are that the men killed their host Craster, raped his women, and depleted his stores. These violations against the sacred laws of hospitality are further emboldened by the murder of their LC Mormont while the NW were guests of host Craster.



As of ADwD, a group of NW brothers "kill" or "attempt to kill" LC Snow. However, I fear that the NW will commit yet more unforgivable violations against the laws of hospitality with Jon down. The wildling chieftains were in the Shield Hall waiting for cold beverages. The NW may lock the men in the Shield Hall and set it on fire - killing all the best warriors.



I hope that does not happen. But I do see the magic waning, and the White Walkers will be able to ride crabs like horses over the Wall. I also think that a doorway will be available for them.



I do not see the Wall falling initially. I just see the ward failing. But these are just my crackpot speculations!


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How did John betray the Wall??? The wildlings aren't the real enemy, the Others are. And everyone on the Wall knows this since the assassination attempt on the Old Bear...The whole point that GRRM is making is that so many people on the wall like Bowen Marsh and the other Jon Snow enemies can't see past their noses.

As Lord Commander, Jon would have the authority to decide how to deal with the wildlings and the only people guilty of treason are Bowen Marsh and the others.

Plus, we don't just see Jon's actions because he has a POV, we see him because of Sam's as well...Jon only strengthened the Wall by making allies with other men "wildlings" against everyone's common enemy the Others.

So, back to my original question...How do you possibly think Jon betrayed the Wall?

"No. I ride south." Then Jon read them the letter Ramsay Snow had written.

The Shieldhall went mad.

Every man began to shout at once. They leapt to their feet, shaking fists. So much for the calming power of comfortable benches. Swords were brandished, axes smashed against shields. Jon Snow looked to Tormund. The Giantsbane sounded his horn once more, twice as long and twice as loud as the first time.

"The Night's Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven

Kingdoms," Jon reminded them when some semblance of quiet had returned. "It is not for us to oppose the Bastard of Bolton, to avenge Stannis Baratheon, to defend his widow and his daughter. This creature who makes cloaks from the skins of women has sworn to cut my heart out, and I mean to make him answer for those words ... but I will not ask my brothers to forswear their vows.

"The Night's Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless ..." Jon paused. "... is there any man here who will come stand with me?"

He chose. He even acknowledge that what he want to do will break his vows. He had clear intentions to forfwear his vows. He betrayed the Wall.

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