Cersei's charm? (book spoilers)

[The Black Wolf]

There's been a lot of discussion on the changes to Cersei in the show. How she's generally become a "nicer" character since some of her most atrocious deeds have been attributed to Joffrey in the show. However, I feel there's another important change to her character that people don't seem to be talking about: Cersei, in the books, is often described as charming. "She charms them all" says Sansa in ASoS, and Cersei is often seen flirting, dancing and being lovely in public. In the show this never happens, she's bitchy and rude and arrogant towards anyone that she meets. Sansa isn't the only one in King's Landing who knows how to be a lady, Cersei is supposed to have that quite mastered as well (if only for show). Isn't that Cersei's greatest asset, her charm?

I'm not really a purist, I can take changes in the show, but I just came to think of this and I cannot understand how TV!Cersei would ever have been able to make any allies or make people do what she wants. People often complain about how TV!Cersei isn't as mad and reckless as book!Cersei, and worry about what will happen after Joffrey's death with Cersei's downward spiral. I might worry as well, but perhaps for a different reason. As I see it, in this downward spiral is when Cersei abandons nearly all pretense and changes tactics from charming people and (in a way) ruling from the shadows, to threatening people and exercising power more openly. It seems to me like she's already adopted the second tactic from day one on the show, which to me makes Cersei into much more of a fool in the show than she was in the books.

[jaimecersei]

i totally agree! i loved how cersei played the role as "the good queen" in public from agot-asos. i loved how grrm portrayed her as a ~femme fatale~ in the first three books and then deconstructed the femme fatale trope in affc. man i just love book!cersei sfm, i prefer the book version so much more than the tv version

[lyanna_maria]

Yes, I completely agree as well. I like Lena Headey as an actress, but she's not how I imagined Cersei in the books at all. I also imagined her more reckless and mad, but specially more charming: I always say that in my head Cersei was like a Disney princess, blonde, beautiful, lovely, charming. I imagined her laughing, dancing, flirting with everybody; only in private would she show her furious and wilful side.

Show!Cersei is always arrogant and kind of rude, and she manages a kind of self-control or composure at all times, but she never shows a cheerful and charming smile as Book!Cersei would.

[username 1]

I'd have to agree with you on this matter as well. There does indeed seem to be a disparity in how charming Cersei is in the books and how she is portrayed in the tv series. In my opinion, this lack of charm in the TV portrayal would only have made Headey's performance nominally better. However, It would have been nice to see the side that Jaimie sees in her and then watch the swift descent into paranoia and ineptitude.

[Queen of Whores]

I'd have to agree with you on this matter as well. There does indeed seem to be a disparity in how charming Cersei is in the books and how she is portrayed in the tv series. In my opinion, this lack of charm in the TV portrayal would only have made Headey's performance nominally better. However, It would have been nice to see the side that Jaimie sees in her and then watch the swift descent into paranoia and ineptitude.

Agreed. One of the most profound and sad in hindsight scenes of the series is when Tyrion and Cersei get news of Stannis and Renly fighting each other, and she starts laughing and picks him and and whirls him around, and then Tyrion finally understands the side that Jaime sees in Cersei. I would have loved for this scene to be in the show. It definitely would have been better than Tyrion and Cersei complaining about their marriages.

[Arkekansler]

Agreed. One of the most profound and sad in hindsight scenes of the series is when Tyrion and Cersei get news of Stannis and Renly fighting each other, and she starts laughing and picks him and and whirls him around, and then Tyrion finally understands the side that Jaime sees in Cersei. I would have loved for this scene to be in the show. It definitely would have been better than Tyrion and Cersei complaining about their marriages.

Yes! I love that scene and totally agree.

I never really thought about Cersie´s portrayal in this way but you’re right and now it bothers me, *sigh*. Also had they portrayed her as charming in public not only would it have made a more interesting character but we would have been spared one of the worst scenes in the show.

The scene I´m referring to is “Cersie tells the Rains of Castamere” and it’s truly amazing how they managed to f**k that up. Butchering one of the coolest pieces of lore in the book by filling it with inaccuracies (the Tyrells are the next richest family in the realm and before them it was the Reynes) and taking all the punch out by instead focusing on Cersie threatening Margaery.

Sorry, of topic but that scene really pissed me of. Anyway I agree.

[Mr Smith]

Got pick, this hasn't been discussed much. Personally, I've had little problem with Lena Heady's portrayal of Cersei in the show, I thought they made her more human than Martin did honestly. But you're spot on that they've completely overlooked this key aspect of her character. Admittedly, it wasn't always that way, there's a scene in the first episode when Cersei does an excellent job of charming Sansa. As the show has moved on though, she's displayed less and less subtlety and more and more outright grumpiness.

Ultimately though, its a minor issue for me. I'm not a purist and generally accept these kind of changes. It's worth remembering that the show's audience is vastly larger than the book's audience, and doesn't have as much room for subtlety. Regardless, Lena Heady's acting has been so excellent from start to finish that I find it difficult, chirlish even, to complain much.

[Queen of Whores]

Got pick, this hasn't been discussed much. Personally, I've had little problem with Lena Heady's portrayal of Cersei in the show, I thought they made her more human than Martin did honestly. But you're spot on that they've completely overlooked this key aspect of her character. Admittedly, it wasn't always that way, there's a scene in the first episode when Cersei does an excellent job of charming Sansa. As the show has moved on though, she's displayed less and less subtlety and more and more outright grumpiness.

Ultimately though, its a minor issue for me. I'm not a purist and generally accept these kind of changes. It's worth remembering that the show's audience is vastly larger than the book's audience, and doesn't have as much room for subtlety. Regardless, Lena Heady's acting has been so excellent from start to finish that I find it difficult, chirlish even, to complain much.

How's it childish to discuss an important characteristic that is kind of missing in an important character? We're not really complaining anyway, we're just discussing. It wouldn't take any extra time to show this side of Cersei; instead of her constant grumpiness they could have her be more charming.

[Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell]

I dont buy the idea that cersei is charming. I have just reread chap 16 GoT, the chapter where arya is brought before robert and ned kills lady. Cersei instigates it and ned hates her. Apart from sansa and jaime, only horny guys fall for her "charms". Its like falling for naomi campbell, stunning and sexy but we all know she is a female dog and we cant stand her as a person.

[rmd]

Churlish, not childish. Different meaning.

I really like Lena H, but she can only work with the lines / scenes they give her. If there wasn't enough time to show her being super-charming then I guess that's their call. People often suggest other actresses for the part, many who are much younger, but remember Cersei is Jaime's twin and NCW is 42 or something, so the actress who played Cersei has to be that age as well. They couldn't have cast NCW and some 32 year old actress to play his twin, it would have been ridiculous.

[Queen of Whores]

Churlish, not childish. Different meaning.

I really like Lena H, but she can only work with the lines / scenes they give her. If there wasn't enough time to show her being super-charming then I guess that's their call. People often suggest other actresses for the part, many who are much younger, but remember Cersei is Jaime's twin and NCW is 42 or something, so the actress who played Cersei has to be that age as well. They couldn't have cast NCW and some 32 year old actress to play his twin, it would have been ridiculous.

Oh, sorry about the misunderstanding. I thought you misspelt childish by accident 😋

I don't blame Lena at all. However her character is handled is on D&D and what they decide to do.

[Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell]

People often suggest other actresses for the part, many who are much younger, but remember Cersei is Jaime's twin and NCW is 42 or something, so the actress who played Cersei has to be that age as well. They couldn't have cast NCW and some 32 year old actress to play his twin, it would have been ridiculous.

Its not just her age, I think its a cultural problem. I love NCW and i think Lena is great. Some of the comments i have read against them on loads of boards are from people who are stuck in an american highschool mindset. They think all royalty should look like disney characters and to be popular and attractive, you have to look like a blonde quarterback or a blonde cheerleader.

NCW and Lena have a classic european regal look. Not some trashy 90210 or saved by the bell - type character.

[DaveyJoe]

Its not just her age, I think its a cultural problem. I love NCW and i think Lena is great. Some of the comments i have read against them on loads of boards are from people who are stuck in an american highschool mindset. They think all royalty should look like disney characters and to be popular and attractive, you have to look like a blonde quarterback or a blonde cheerleader.

NCW and Lena have a classic european regal look. Not some trashy 90210 or saved by the bell - type character.

NCW as Jaime does look like a Disney character:

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4756159232/h6E3B7F71/

[Queen of Whores]

Its not just her age, I think its a cultural problem. I love NCW and i think Lena is great. Some of the comments i have read against them on loads of boards are from people who are stuck in an american highschool mindset. They think all royalty should look like disney characters and to be popular and attractive, you have to look like a blonde quarterback or a blonde cheerleader.

NCW and Lena have a classic european regal look. Not some trashy 90210 or saved by the bell - type character.

A cultural problem? If you want to blame someone for how we imagine her, blame George R R Martin for writing her as she is. She is pretty much described as the Westeros version of a Disney princess/queen.