Night's Watch... Their Laws, Their 'Constitution,' Their overseers....

[dmo862000]

Okay so I guess this is kind of broad but I am wondering about the Night's Watch and their overall standing and their laws and so forth. So I guess these are my questions:

1) Are they completely and utterly independent? Does the Iron Throne or any entity have any legal authority over them? I mean they request forces and help from the 7K and in addition the 7K are expected to enforce the death penalty over deserters so do they fall under it at all?

2) Is there any legal recourse to remove a bad LC?

3) Can the laws be changed? I mean the NW has existed for thousands of years, they must have to evolve. How would this be done? Is there a Constitution of sorts?

[Skoboe]

The NW was set up to deal with a threat millenia ago, weren't they?

I'm guessing back then it would have been an honour to make the supreme sacrifice to defend the southern kingdoms (the NW pre-date the 7K by thousands of years), regardless of what is going on in those kingdoms.

Up to now the threat has eased and faded from peoples memories, and the NW is perhaps seen as no more than a tradition with just token support from the 7K.

You also have the Kings Guard which is dedicated to protecting the position of the King - whoever that is, and the Maesters who serve a place, not necessarily a Lord. Before the Maesters there was the Alchemists Guild.

So the three groups are essentially apolitical and regarded as servants of Westeros.

But if the NW predates any form of a 'collective' Westeros then there was probably no consensus in what they are meant to do.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

1) Yes

2) Not as far as we know. Unless daggers are legal. :P

3) It depends on the law I guess. If it was something really important, the Lord Commander might form a council to make a decision with him. Perhaps they'd all vote on it.

[Sevumar]

1) Are they completely and utterly independent? Does the Iron Throne or any entity have any legal authority over them? I mean they request forces and help from the 7K and in addition the 7K are expected to enforce the death penalty over deserters so do they fall under it at all?

2) Is there any legal recourse to remove a bad LC?

3) Can the laws be changed? I mean the NW has existed for thousands of years, they must have to evolve. How would this be done? Is there a Constitution of sorts?

1) They are independent of any of the Lords Paramount of the Seven Kingdoms, but they are dependent on the Iron Throne for a number of things. Jon's behavior toward Stannis and the other claimants seems to show that deference and loyalty are expected of the Night's Watch and its members. However, a wise king would think twice before meddling in the affairs of what is traditionally a pretty autonomous group. The fact that the castles of the Watch have no southern walls is meant to prevent them from trying to break away and become a fully sovereign polity.

2) There doesn't seem to be one that we know of, however, when Lord Commanders have acted badly in the past, there is a precedent for the use of force to remove them.

3) Traditions can and do evolve, but there is pushback, like we saw against Jon. Trying to change too many things all at once will anger people who put a lot of stock in tradition.

[Fanless Mace]

Think of it as a paramilitary NGO that can't exist without budgetary largess from the gubbamint...a gubbamint that has lost its memory about why it would budget for this boondoggle in the first place, especially when dealing with shortfalls at home.

As for the rest of the queries in the OP...as usual, whomever amasses enough power can effect change, but with traditions and rules going back several millennia, there is the impediment of a "You can't just go around changing the Bible!" gestalt.

[Skoboe]

Think of it as a paramilitary NGO that can't exist without budgetary largess from the gubbamint....

Holy crap - the NW is the Westerosi equivalent of Child Support Australia???!!!

[Crowford]

It's built on tradition. The Watch guards the realm against threats from beyond the Wall and does not interfere with matters south of it, and the rulers of the southern lands support them, more or less. They get greater support from the North, since those are the people actually affected when Wildlings manage to cross the Wall. For the Kingdoms further south, their contribution mainly consist of sending criminals who would otherwise be executed up there. Which is kinda a win-win situation; The convicted gets to stay alive, the Watch gets a new recruit, and the local Lord can be pleased with himself that he is supporting the Night's Watch. The reverse of this is, of course, that the Lords take it upon them to execute deserters. Now, since the Watch has no real political power this is all built upon the voluntary cooperation of said Lords (or "peer pressure"). They can't demand to be handed criminals, just as they cant do anything if a Lord would refuse to execute a deserter (except go lobbying on step up on the ladder). But this does not seem to become an issue often, since no one really gains anything from antagonizing the watch.

As for laws: Apparently they don't have those, at least not in the sense of them being written down (or there being a legislative or judicial body). The group seems to be small enough so that it works with a system of customary laws - a Lord Commander is democratically elected, but after that his power is absolute. Which still means that if someone can convince a sizable portion of the men that the Lord Commander has to be taken down, he will be taken down. There is just no law that would specify under which circumstances this is justified - if you were successful, it was justified, simple as that.