Valonqar theory

[Visenya the Dragon]

Me too. Is it possible that valonquar means younger sibling instead of little brother?

This is a little crackpot, but I see Arya and Sansa being teamed back up. Since Arya looks like a boy, could they pass Arya off as Aleyane's little brother? I always thought Arya and Sansa would both get to see Cersie get what was coming to her.

[bloody_mummer]

Is it possible that valonquar means younger sibling instead of little brother?

Very interesting, esp. given Aemon's revelation of how everyone has misinterpreted the Valyrian PtwP as being a male.

[Melisandros Megas]

Its definately jamie, I understand people think there must be more to it than what we have read but Jamie will kill Cersei. It may not be a shock, or ah ha moment for us but that doesnt take away from how shocking it will be for Cersei, That death will come not from her hated brother but from her beloved twin, if little finger killed cersei it would cheapen the whole cersei/tyrion/jamie prophecy. No it will be Jamie who strangles cersei and she wont realise the significance of it all until her final moments when jamie watches the life leave her eyes.....

I know I'm nitpicking here, but didn't the prophecy say "hands" in plural. Jaime would need a better prostehetic to wrap it around her neck....

......but then again...a twin...who has a..ahem...complicated relationship to his sister...who ends up losing his hand...yes I'm sure I've seen this before somewhere...

[Parizad]

I'm pretty committed at this point to believe the valonqar is Sandor, but LF is certainly a possibility. I always wondered what the point of having Cersei send him the tapestries. Maybe a connection?

What tapestries??

[Sword of the Morgan]

I could see it, but remember to be careful with prophecy.

“Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is...and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time.”

[Shortspear Rick]

What tapestries??

When Littlefinger writes to King's Landing he seems to show no concern over the Lords Declarant, instead spending most of the letter on trivial and mundane things, like requesting some of old tapestries to be sent to the Vale.

Also, Petyr Baelish is not a little brother, as far as we know. There are no mentions of any siblings, and seeing as how he's inherited his father's holdings one can assume that he'd be the eldest. As someone stated earlier, the name Littlefinger is derived from the fact that his family land is located on a series of peninsulas known as the Fingers, and on the smallest one at that, hence "Little Finger".

Personally, I don't see this theory holding any merit. If we go on to take the meaning of "valonqar" to include people who were even thought of as like a little brother the possibility of suspects become endless.

[RoamingRonin]

Jaime, Tyrion or Osney Kettleblack.

[stateofdissipation]

Stannis is not younger than his other brothers but he does fit somehow

little is not necessarily younger... it can also be smaller...

[stateofdissipation]

I could see it, but remember to be careful with prophecy.

“Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is...and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time.”

I take that to mean so obvious that you overlook it or so hidden that you will never find it.....

Jamie is the most obvious and most easy to overlook... Jamie would never hurt Cersei....

Littlefinger is not an actual brother... but it is possible... some translation error by Cersei could have led her to believe it to be little brother instead of little finger... she got maggy from Magi... He is also like a little brother to Cat... and has motive to kill Cersei because of Cat's death.

[Mayura]

I've always had a doubt "valonqar" just means "little brother" or that it directly refers to someone who is someone's sibling at all.

If the prophecy is to be taken literally, I guess we can bet on Jaime to be the valonqar. It makes the most sense in the serie, according to the fact GRRM has built up J+C's relationship a lot and then he has Cersei going deeper into madness while Jaime starts growing apart from her. For the sake of the story, it just makes more sense if it's Jaime who puts an end to Cersei's madness.

If we can compare the books and the show, at the end of season 2, Cersei is determined to poison Tommen in case the city is taken by Stannis Baratheon, she'd rather they die than they're taken alive. We haven't seen a similar scene in the books (yet?), but it woul make sense that granted she's authorised to see her son again and words of Aegon's landing come to her, and if he marches on KL, Cersei will rather see her children die at her hands than let them be seized by Aegon's troops imo. Which would undoubtedly trigger Jaime's certainty that Cersei needs to go.

As for LittleFinger, I don't think it would make sense at all. Petyr Baelish's relationship with Cersei is not that strong and frankly his arc doesn't seem to be leading him back to KL soon. Also it would be very anti-climatic to have LF kill Cersei, it would weaken Cersei's story line imo. The whole point about the "valonqar" is Cersei despising Tyrion while he is actually not the sibling who's going to cause her demise.

Another proposal that I find interesting for the valonqar is if Lady Stoneheart has something to do with Cersei's death. "valonqar" could be a polysemic word that does not necessarily mean "little brother" or "little sibling", but that would be stretching it a bit far I guess :)

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Ok, I have a question. Why did Maggy use a Valyrian word instead of saying it outright? Is it a clue or a quirk? If it's a clue, then the valonqar in question might be of Valyrian blood, which would narrow things down quite a bit. If it's a quirk then its sole purpose is to send the readers into endless speculation.

Valyrian blood candidates:

Aegon, if he really is Rhaegar's son

Jon, if he really is Rhaegar's son

Daenerys, who is not a brother, and I can't really see her strangling anyone. She'd just have her dragons crispify Cersei.

Other candidates:

Tyrion, oh the irony of this being the one thing Cersei was right about

Jamie, nice twist but wouldn't be that interesting, as it's predictable

Littlefinger, as the OP proposes, Cat refers to him as like a little brother to her (not sure if that's in the book, haven't read it in a while, but it was in the show)

Stannis, Robert's brother, loads of motive

Bran, through warging someone like Hodor or Wun Wun

Rickon, but not til he's grown up a lot

Arya, but again not a brother, and probably lacks the strength to strangle

Varys, crackpot

Darkstar, crackpot

Trystane Martell, in retaliation for Myrcella's death. ETA: Arianne could also end up dead because of Cersei and that would give Trystane double motive.

[Parizad]

I've always had a doubt "valonqar" just means "little brother" or that it directly refers to someone who is someone's sibling at all.

If the prophecy is to be taken literally, I guess we can bet on Jaime to be the valonqar. It makes the most sense in the serie, according to the fact GRRM has built up J+C's relationship a lot and then he has Cersei going deeper into madness while Jaime starts growing apart from her. For the sake of the story, it just makes more sense if it's Jaime who puts an end to Cersei's madness.

If we can compare the books and the show, at the end of season 2, Cersei is determined to poison Tommen in case the city is taken by Stannis Baratheon, she'd rather they die than they're taken alive. We haven't seen a similar scene in the books (yet?), but it woul make sense that granted she's authorised to see her son again and words of Aegon's landing come to her, and if he marches on KL, Cersei will rather see her children die at her hands than let them be seized by Aegon's troops imo. Which would undoubtedly trigger Jaime's certainty that Cersei needs to go.

As for LittleFinger, I don't think it would make sense at all. Petyr Baelish's relationship with Cersei is not that strong and frankly his arc doesn't seem to be leading him back to KL soon. Also it would be very anti-climatic to have LF kill Cersei, it would weaken Cersei's story line imo. The whole point about the "valonqar" is Cersei despising Tyrion while he is actually not the sibling who's going to cause her demise.

Another proposal that I find interesting for the valonqar is if Lady Stoneheart has something to do with Cersei's death. "valonqar" could be a polysemic word that does not necessarily mean "little brother" or "little sibling", but that would be stretching it a bit far I guess :)

So far the prophecy has been quite literal. I mean Maggy gave her the exact number of children... Anyway, I do agree that Jamie being Cersei's doom is a good twist but I think if we take the prophecy's prediction in the context of itself the Valonqar is associated with the queen who will replace Cersei and the deaths of her children. That way the best candidate is someone cruel and ambitious like LF or Dany who was the little sibling. Dany might still become a cruel ruler, so that's not out of the question. All in all, LF fits the whole prophecy (not just the Valonqar meaning little brother) very well.

[Parizad]

Ok, I have a question. Why did Maggy use a Valyrian word instead of saying it outright? Is it a clue or a quirk? If it's a clue, then the valonqar in question might be of Valyrian blood, which would narrow things down quite a bit. If it's a quirk then its sole purpose is to send the readers into endless speculation.

Valyrian blood candidates:

Aegon, if he really is Rhaegar's son

Jon, if he really is Rhaegar's son

Daenerys, who is not a brother, and I can't really see her strangling anyone. She'd just have her dragons crispify Cersei.

Other candidates:

Tyrion, oh the irony of this being the one thing Cersei was right about

Jamie, nice twist but wouldn't be that interesting, as it's predictable

Littlefinger, as the OP proposes, Cat refers to him as like a little brother to her (not sure if that's in the book, haven't read it in a while, but it was in the show)

Stannis, Robert's brother, loads of motive

Bran, through warging someone like Hodor or Wun Wun

Rickon, but not til he's grown up a lot

Arya, but again not a brother, and probably lacks the strength to strangle

Varys, crackpot

Darkstar, crackpot

Trystane Martell, in retaliation for Myrcella's death. ETA: Arianne could also end up dead because of Cersei and that would give Trystane double motive.

If Valonqar is to mean valyrian then I think it's Danny. She still may grow to be more cruel or grudging, who knows!

[Parizad]

Jamie does not fit the prophecy that well. He does make an appealing candidate because of his history with Cersei but I doubt that he will kill her for her infidelity

[Parizad]

little is not necessarily younger... it can also be smaller...

:agree:

Little finger (who has little in his name) is small in person ans in status and in personality.

[stateofdissipation]

Very interesting, esp. given Aemon's revelation of how everyone has misinterpreted the Valyrian PtwP as being a male.

dragon, fire, and heir do not have gender.... Valyrian has gender

dubys is sibling

hāedar is little sister

[WTF's a Lommy]

I believe the actual "strangling" aspect of the the prophecy is well... prophetic, and not to be taken literally. I agree with the fact that it can be any little brother because she says THE Valonquar not YOUR valonquar.

My theory is that The Valonquar is The Hound. The theory is assuming that Ser Robert Strong is some form of The Mountain and that the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle is The Hound and he is named Champion by The Faith for Cersei's trial.

[stateofdissipation]

The volanqar comes after Cersei drowning in tears and after the death of her children

three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

So the children die, then cersei drowns in tears, then Cersei gets choked.

It is hard to imagine Cersei's trial resulting in or coming after the deaths of the children. Once the children are dead, so is Cersei's claim to the throne and power. If Cersei kills her children, Jamie is the little brother. Other than that it is most likely that whoever the little brother is kills the children and then Cersei. Other than that it is completely coincidental and Cersei happens to get choked after drowning in tears after her children die.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I think we can all agree it won't be Jojen Reed. :smug:

[Parizad]

The volanqar comes after Cersei drowning in tears and after the death of her children

three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

So the children die, then cersei drowns in tears, then Cersei gets choked.

It is hard to imagine Cersei's trial resulting in or coming after the deaths of the children. Once the children are dead, so is Cersei's claim to the throne and power. If Cersei kills her children, Jamie is the little brother. Other than that it is most likely that whoever the little brother is kills the children and then Cersei. Other than that it is completely coincidental and Cersei happens to get choked after drowning in tears after her children die.

:agree: the Valonqar I believe is the person responsible for the death of Cersei's children. This is one reason I think LF is a good candidate