Sansa's Opening Move

[Hypnomagica]

I think this a bit premature at this point

Everything I said was stated in cannon, actually. That said he is obviously going to be on his best behavior with her, at least at first and he clearly knows how to talk to women, hence the bastards.

Sansa probably won't like the bastards but I doubt he'll have them around.

[Another Locust]

I think this a bit premature at this point. I think it will depend on how "gallant" Harry is and his general character. And I think we just don't know yet. The fact he has several bastards may not bode well for him in Sansa's eyes. We'll see though I guess.

He has fathered 2 bastards, and has a third coming shortly. That's why I don't think Harry is going to the ideal candidate here. But it hardly matters in the long run, Littlefinger needs the Vale regardless of Sansa's interests. She simply doesn't really have much of a choice. That, or Baelish purposely chose Harry so that she could play the mummers farce thing with him. That's also kind of a negative outcome.

And you're right. We just don't have any idea what she thinks. Perhaps 25 years from now we will.

I do not care about romance either, that's why the idea of Sansa and Sandor falling in love annoys me, the romance of it all sickens me.

And call it a "coming of age" all you want but Sansa is still a teenage girl and she is still pray to all the emotions and hormones that begets. If they marry, they will fuck, if he is good in bed, she will grow attached.

Oxytocin and all that jazz.

That said, you can still hope that she experiences more of an adult love like the one Danny had for Drogo.

Hah! Sansa calling Harrold her "sun and stars".

We were having a serious conversation, you know.

[RoamingRonin]

Harry the Heir likes to get busy. Alayne is going to push the envelope. I guarantee that's what her controversial chapter is all about.

[OldGimletEye]

Everything I said was stated in cannon, actually. That said he is obviously going to be on his best behavior with her, at least at first and he clearly knows how to talk to women, hence the bastards.

Sansa probably won't like the bastards but I doubt he'll have them around.

How much do we know about his guy other than what LF told her? Maybe I forgot some chapters.

[Another Locust]

As for Sansa's opening move, she will have to find a way to get her armies out of the currently impassable Vale, then march straight to the Twins and burn the stone to the ground. Then, she'll take the Frey host at Riverrun unawares and storm the castle. With the support of the Riverlords, she can either march North to confront the Boltons, or South to tie some loose ends.

She'll have to prioritize though. Cersei is definetely a threat, but it's unclear how much longer she will have power. The Boltons, on the other hand, have Winterfell, and she needs to put a stop to that. The hardest part would be Moat Calain, because Roose Bolton would probably have it garrisoned when he hears of Sansa taking Riverrun and the sacking of the Twins. This would leave the Kingsroad out of the question. The Neck is another option, but an armyof 20,000 simply cannot pass through there. Half of them would fall in quicksand, and the other half would be eaten by Crannogmen.

If and when she does make it to the North, she should join forces with Stannis to increase her strength. They say Winterfell with 500 men can hold against an army of 10,000. Or, she could wait for Bolton to attack Stannis, then take Winterfell unawares. It all depends on the timing.

[Another Locust]

Harry the Heir likes to get busy. Alayne is going to push the envelope. I guarantee that's what her controversial chapter is all about.

Lets not complicate things, shall we?

How much do we know about his guy other than what LF told her? Maybe I forgot some chapters.

Not much, except that he's very gallant and has 3 bastards. Both of which are important characteristics. I doubt that he would be a loyal husband, like King Bob. (Why do people keep calling him that?) This is actually a pretty big deal, by the way.

[Hypnomagica]

How much do we know about his guy other than what LF told her? Maybe I forgot some chapters.

We know that he was knighted by Bronze Yohn Royce after winning a small tournament. We know that is considered extremely attractive, and we know that he is by-and-large a middling noble outside of being the heir apparent after Sweet Robin.

[Another Locust]

We know that he was knighted by Bronze Yohn Royce after winning a small tournament. We know that is considered extremely attractive, and we know that he is by-and-large a middling noble outside of being the heir apparent after Sweet Robin.

For your troubles:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Harrold_Hardyng

[OldGimletEye]

Not much, except that he's very gallant and has 3 bastards. Both of which are important characteristics. I doubt that he would be a loyal husband, like King Bob. (Why do people keep calling him that?) This is actually a pretty big deal, by the way.

And most this info came from LF right? If so, for some reason, I am just not willing to take his word for it. Just not sure how "gallant" he is going to be.

[Another Locust]

And most this info came from LF right? If so, for some reason, I am just not willing to take his word for it. Just not sure how "gallant" he is going to be.

It's safe to take the Lord Protector's comments as a grain of salt. I can't remember who told her about the bastards, I think it was Randa Royce.

[Hypnomagica]

And most this info came from LF right? If so, for some reason, I am just not willing to take his word for it. Just not sure how "gallant" he is going to be.

I'm really not sure why you're so hung up on the "gallant" bit. There is no reason why he should not be gallant and he is stated to be such.

[OldGimletEye]

I'm really not sure why you're so hung up on the "gallant" bit. There is no reason why he should not be gallant and he is stated to be such.

Because that was one of his selling points, right? And who stated it? LF. Yeah, there is an opinion to trust.

[Another Locust]

I'm really not sure why you're so hung up on the "gallant" bit. There is no reason why he should not be gallant and he is stated to be such.

The concern mainly comes from the handsome and gallant prince Joffrey, and the fact that LF seems to be directly targeting Sansa's supposed interests. I think it's BS simply because of how it's worded and the occasion and the fact that the trustworthy Petyr Baelish said it. And his attitude while saying it was suspicious. And his actions before saying, while saying it, and after saying it were questionable at a minimum.

[Hypnomagica]

What in all the Seven Hells would Baelish gain from lying about this? He never states he is gallant, Sansa herself has a generally good impression of him when they meet and even notes that he is attractive.

The important thing is that their marriage makes political sense, THAT is his selling point, THAT is what Baelish brags to Sansa about. His gallantry is attested to by other characters and LF would gain nothing from lying because it would be such an obvious lie.

[Another Locust]

What in all the Seven Hells would Baelish gain from lying about this? He never states he is gallant, Sansa herself has a generally good impression of him when they meet and even notes that he is attractive.

The important thing is that their marriage makes political sense, THAT is his selling point, THAT is what Baelish brags to Sansa about. His gallantry is attested to by other characters and LF would gain nothing from lying because it would be such an obvious lie.

Well, one thing he would gain is a higher chance of Sansa following his orders. That would seem pretty important to me. I suggest you re-read Alayne II from A Feast for Crows. There, you will find the entire conversation. I just re-read it myself, and I was going to quote it. It was too long unfortunately. Boo hoo.

[OldGimletEye]

What in all the Seven Hells would Baelish gain from lying about this? He never states he is gallant, Sansa herself has a generally good impression of him when they meet and even notes that he is attractive.

The important thing is that their marriage makes political sense, THAT is his selling point, THAT is what Baelish brags to Sansa about. His gallantry is attested to by other characters and LF would gain nothing from lying because it would be such an obvious lie.

No. Baelish did say Harry was gallant. In fact he he said Harry was "very gallant" if I recall correctly. Also, you brought up the gallant word when you argued how Sansa will just follow head over heels in love with him. And why would Baelish lie? Well probably for lots of reasons. Just because I haven't figured out what he is exactly up to, doesn't mean I should just take everything he says at face value. I don't need a smoking gun to be skeptical of what he is saying.

However, yes maybe Sansa will marry him for political reasons and not because she is particulary fond of him. That is in the realm of possibility. But, I thought the original assertion was something along the lines that Sansa would go all gaga for him because he was handsome, gallant, and sexually experience, etc, etc.

Edited for spelling.

[Another Locust]

No. Baelish did say Harry was gallant. In fact he he said Harry was "very gallant" if I recall correctly. Also, you brought up the gallant word when you argued how Sansa will just follow head over heels in love with them. And why would Baelish lie? Well probably for lots of reasons. Just because I haven't figured out what he is exactly up to, doesn't mean I should just take everything he says at face value. I don't need a smoking gun to be skeptical of what he is saying.

However, yes maybe Sansa will marry him for political reasons and not because she is particulary fond of him. That is in the realm of possibility. But, I thought the original assertion was something along the lines that Sansa would go all gaga for him because he was handsome, gallant, and sexually experience, etc, etc.

I'm also pretty sure that Baelish figured she would like that, but I can't see this happening. Which is why I find Petyr to be lying. He's trying to make Sansa cooperate by giving her a reason to enjoy his company. I'm sure he's a womanizer and all, but I don't think that Petyr is being truthful about this, and we certainly shouldn't believe what he says. It would be in Sansa's best interest to doubt his statements, but we'll just have to wait.

And that's all I have time for because I just hallucinated smoke filling the room, good day.

[Lady Howell]

And we have officially hi-jacked this terrific thread. I apologize Lady Hollow, I do hope you forgive us.

Apology accepted. It is an interesting read nonetheless.

[Lady Howell]

As for Sansa's opening move, she will have to find a way to get her armies out of the currently impassable Vale, then march straight to the Twins and burn the stone to the ground. Then, she'll take the Frey host at Riverrun unawares and storm the castle. With the support of the Riverlords, she can either march North to confront the Boltons, or South to tie some loose ends.

She'll have to prioritize though. Cersei is definetely a threat, but it's unclear how much longer she will have power. The Boltons, on the other hand, have Winterfell, and she needs to put a stop to that. The hardest part would be Moat Calain, because Roose Bolton would probably have it garrisoned when he hears of Sansa taking Riverrun and the sacking of the Twins. This would leave the Kingsroad out of the question. The Neck is another option, but an armyof 20,000 simply cannot pass through there. Half of them would fall in quicksand, and the other half would be eaten by Crannogmen.

If and when she does make it to the North, she should join forces with Stannis to increase her strength. They say Winterfell with 500 men can hold against an army of 10,000. Or, she could wait for Bolton to attack Stannis, then take Winterfell unawares. It all depends on the timing.

Thank you for getting back on topic, Another Locust.

[Winnief]

She'll have to prioritize though. Cersei is definetely a threat, but it's unclear how much longer she will have power. The Boltons, on the other hand, have Winterfell, and she needs to put a stop to that. The hardest part would be Moat Calain, because Roose Bolton would probably have it garrisoned when he hears of Sansa taking Riverrun and the sacking of the Twins. This would leave the Kingsroad out of the question. The Neck is another option, but an armyof 20,000 simply cannot pass through there. Half of them would fall in quicksand, and the other half would be eaten by Crannogmen.

If and when she does make it to the North, she should join forces with Stannis to increase her strength. They say Winterfell with 500 men can hold against an army of 10,000. Or, she could wait for Bolton to attack Stannis, then take Winterfell unawares. It all depends on the timing.

Good theory Another Locust. Since much as Sansa hates the Lannister's, I think she's more intent on rebuilding WF and the Starks then revenge, I think North is the far more likely option for her. Especially since once a Stark heir, (aka Rickon) is safely installed at WF again, it would be relatively simple for a united North to repel Southern forces, (assuming Southern forces could even be sent-things are going downhill really fast for the Lannister regime-what with the GC and the IB, they just don't have time to be messing with the North, something Sansa and the BF would seize on,) and then everyone can concentrate on this darned threat from Beyond the Wall.

All this happens, after Sansa slays the Giant in the snow palace-of course aka LF. I think she's going to make contact with BF, take out Baelish, and go from there.