Aegon Targaryen

[Harold II]

I think it doesn't particularly matter if the Blackfyre line is female or male.

The Golden Company, Varys, Illyrio and fAegon. Do you think with all their bitterness and hatred towards Targaryens that they really care, so long as they have SOMEONE to put forward as their claimant?

There is so much backstory and plot development around the Blackfyre rebellion, Dance of Dragons, animosity between Dorne and the Reach. Its a major plot line that hasn't really been explored... its just been simmering in the background.

This will be the major theatre of conflict in WoW, once the North and Slavers Bay are settled early in the story. We have House Lannister completely unravelling and increasingly relying on Tyrell forces and leaders, and a bitter Dorne looking for revenge and desperately looking for a political alliance with Targaryens. This, along with the Citadel plot line will drive the story forward.

We have also seen quite a few POV characters converging in these southern regions.

--- The grand plot ---

And to those who say its come out of nowhere, that's very wrong. This has been coming ever since Ser Gregor raped and murdered the royal family, thus creating feud with the Martells. Varys scheming isn't for nothing either. This will be the second last act in the plot surrounding the Iron Throne.

Act I - Baratheon downfall, rise of Lannister

Act II - Stark/Tully and Greyjoy Rebellions, Baratheon contesting claims, Tyrell joining Lannister

Act III - Lannister/Tyrell downfall, rise of Backfyre/Dorne (WoW main plot?)

Act IV - Rise of Targaryen, final eradication of Backfyres (aDoS main plot?)

I suppose you could consider the war with the others as Act V, but its been running in parallel in the background since the first sentence of the books, which makes all the fighting for the throne petty and pointless. Jon will unite anyone left, by saying what Mance did to the wildlings - unite or die.

Jon Snow as a Stark-Targaryen king would fit nicely into the fact the story is loosely based on the War of the Roses. He will be the beginning of a dynasty similar to the Tudors. It will be interesting to see who his consort is.

The only thing I'm not sure of is the role of the Vale in all this. I bet Peter Baelish will be looking to mobilise the Vale to claim the Iron Throne or at least increase his own power in all this chaos.

Then you have all the "agenda" plot threads:

Magic - Citadel/Master's anti-magic agenda vs the role of magic in the coming war

Slavery - Faceless Men and their anti-slavery agenda vs Danny, the anti-slave Dragon queen and her slaver Valeryian heritage.

Religion - Faith of the Seven, the Old Gods and the Red God followers

I expect there to be a renewal of the great Houses through marriage pacts centred around the Starks in the post war world (for example, Gendry and Arya forming a new house replacing the Baratheons at Storms End? A new bull Sigil?). The last book was to be called "A Time for Wolves" for a reason.

I think the "bitter sweet" ending portends to some characters dying. My money will be on Bran (as magic will be killed off at the end), Danny (mother of dragons restores her family, dies heroically) and a few others.

All the historic feuds will be put to rest, and they will peacefully rebuild in a post apocalyptic world.

[corbon]

The Golden Company, Varys, Illyrio and fAegon. Do you think with all their bitterness and hatred towards Targaryens that they really care, so long as they have SOMEONE to put forward as their claimant?

What bitterness and hatred?

[Chatty Duelist]

It's been 5 books and Dany still hasn't reached Westeros.

Aegon reached Westeros and made an explosive entrance in just 1 book!

Aegon > Dany.

I personally believe he's legit. The Blackfyre theory has more holes than swiss cheese.

[Toccs]

I personally believe he's legit. The Blackfyre theory has more holes than swiss cheese.

As opposed to the "he's legit" theory, which the only two pieces of evidence in favour are the words of Varys and Illyrio Mopatis. I'm sure those two guys are telling the truth :laugh:

[The Dragon has three heads]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the male/female line thing, and its importance.

All of that merely shows that Illyrio has a connection to the top level inside GC, not control of it (an inside line, not the definitive inside line). They were not prepared to drop everything at Illyrio's word, but at Illyrio's word combined with a realistic chance at them achieving their stated goals.

That would make Danny...not important?

Henry II of England came to the throne through a maternal claim to the throne of William the conquerer....so tell me again how the matrilineal line is not important? :)

[The Great Cornholio!]

As opposed to the "he's legit" theory, which the only two pieces of evidence in favour are the words of Varys and Illyrio Mopatis. I'm sure those two guys are telling the truth :laugh:

The two most trustworthy characters in the series.

[corbon]

As opposed to the "he's legit" theory, which the only two pieces of evidence in favour are the words of Varys and Illyrio Mopatis. I'm sure those two guys are telling the truth :laugh:

Ahh, its the default position in the books, which is textual evidence (not proof!) itself, unless something goes to show its untrue - which nothing has.

Not that I'm saying it can't be untrue, just disputing that there are only two pieces of evidence for it.

[corbon]

That would make Danny...not important?

Henry II of England came to the throne through a maternal claim to the throne of William the conquerer....so tell me again how the matrilineal line is not important? :)

Dany is important because she is undisputedly a Targ, the daughter of the last Targ King and most importantly of all has dragons. Note how quickly and easily she was sold of to a barbarian though. She wasn't important in her own right before the dragons.

The Targs have a multi-generational no-females rule since the the Dance of the Dragons. If a female doesn't have the right to rule, she can;t pass that right on to her descendants.

Henry II is an utterly different case. His grandfather was the King Henry I who's only son died and who declared his daughter Matlida to be his heir. Matilda was Queen, claimed the throne, but lost out to her cousin Stephen in a civil war. She had a fair claim which she was not able to enforce, and passed it to her son who was recognised by Stephen in a peace treaty and succeeded him.

To compare that to a multi-generational lost lineage of bastards through the non-recognised matrilineal line is something of a joke.

[Toccs]

Ahh, its the default position in the books, which is textual evidence (not proof!) itself, unless something goes to show its untrue - which nothing has.

Not that I'm saying it can't be untrue, just disputing that there are only two pieces of evidence for it.

I don't think that it is the default position of the books. Of the people who have met or heard of Aegon so far, Tyrion has his doubts, Doran has his doubts, Arianne shares Doran's doubts, Randyll Tarly, Mace Tyrell and Kevan Lannister all doubt him. It is a massive cloud of doubt that seems to be the books position at this time.

I was wrong before, because on closer inspection even Illyrio doesn't ever say that Aegon is a Targaryen and the real deal. Jon Connington does, but thinks he is because he was specifically told so by Varys. It all ultimately comes down to the word of Varys saying that he is Aegon Targaryen VI. Varys told Connington and Varys told Kevan, everybody else doubts it.

The alleged baby swap is in and of itself a bit ridiculous and fraught with inconsistencies and on that we definitely only have Varys word that it ever occurred. The baby swap story exists nowhere outside of Varys' dialouge so can't possibly be the default position of the books, however without a baby swap, the idea of Aegon being legitimate is impossible.

So it is all entirely reliant on Varys words.

[King Benjen II]

Is it just me or is anyone else pissed off that this supposed boy king Aegon Targaryen just rocks up out of absolutely nowhere and has an immense opportunity to sieze the Iron Throne.

It feels like hes stealing it! For books and books we have been reading and following Danearys Targaryen's journey towards her ultimate goal - getting her fathers throne back.

All of a sudden Aegon comes out of nowhere and at this stage I just dont feel like there needs to be another contestant for the throne.

It just feels like an all to sudden plot change crammed into the story at the last minute to add a bit of extra spice to the Targaryen situation and to the War of the Kings.

It only feels like a crammed unexpected plot change because you don't like it. GRRM is writing a wide range story that feels like your reading history. To do this you need alot of characters. Aegon adds drama and mystery. Something each story needs in order to remain interesting.

[King Benjen II]

Being caught up on the show and then gone through all the books once, I am not surprised of Aegon popping up.

One of the underlying things in the story is how everything is tied to Rhaegar/Elia/Lyana, their children and the fall of the Mad King.

I've now been wondering. Is Rhaegar's daughter was hidden away as well? We all are pretty sure Jon Snow is Rhaegar's too. Will all of the lost dragons unite?

I won't believe Jon is Rhaegar's until I see textual evidence.

[corbon]

I don't think that it is the default position of the books. Of the people who have met or heard of Aegon so far, Tyrion has his doubts, Doran has his doubts, Arianne shares Doran's doubts, Randyll Tarly, Mace Tyrell and Kevan Lannister all doubt him. It is a massive cloud of doubt that seems to be the books position at this time.

None of that changes the default position though. He is presented to the readers as a true Aegon, in diguise as Young Griff.

Most of those doubts are utterly irrelevant as they belong to people who have literally zero knowledge of the actual events, or fAegon himself.

Its a similar situation as Joffrey's parentage, except this time in reverse. Joffrey is presented initially as a real Baratheon, but then we are shown increasing eveidence amounting to proof of his falseness. But until that evidence mounted, he was presented to us as a Baratheon. Just so fAegon is presented to us as Aegon masquerading as Young Griff, once we get past the masquerade. As evidence mounts, if it mounts, that he is false, then he will be presented to us as Faegon, who believes he is Aegon, and was masquerading as Young Griff.

Right now there is not enough evidence to be assured of that so his current presentation is as Aegon, with enough doubt to be nicknamed fAegon by readers. But the default is still Aegon, and there is no solid alternative yet (pisswater boy and secret blackfyre running favourites, but both unofficial)

The alleged baby swap is in and of itself a bit ridiculous and fraught with inconsistencies

Simply not true. Its basic, simple and easy to execute and there are no inconsistancies or problems.

Plenty of readers like to invent problems and inconsistencies, but I've yet to see one that stands up.

[Maybelle]

I think Aegon is the real deal but think he will be attacked, placed under the Dead Heart tree at Ravenwood and while he is dying, Bran will warg into him. Bran gets to be a warrior, fly, take the Iron throne and have Dany as queen. Jon will be king of the North when the wall falls and he is freed from his vows.

[RhaegarMarcTargaryen]

H

[RhaegarMarcTargaryen]

It's been 5 books and Dany still hasn't reached Westeros.

Aegon reached Westeros and made an explosive entrance in just 1 book!

Aegon > Dany.

I personally believe he's legit. The Blackfyre theory has more holes than swiss cheese.

Aegon > Dany???? No friggin way

Dany gave birth to dragons There is AC after conquering and BC before conquering that refers to aegon uniting 7 kingdoms. Dragons were a dime a dozen he just had the balls to fly on a huge dragon (forgot the name) and burn people to death or they yielded and kept their lands as lords

There was a storm and the dragons danced and all died

Dany> Aegon because she gave birth to dragons got on drogon the biggest craziest dragon she had while he was burning people and eating them she had the balls to to use her whip and say no her hair gets burned off again and flies away.

How can Aegon be better than Danny??

Madness. Plus the old targaryens knew the spells to control their dragons

What does Danny know? Trachares meaning spit fire???

Never insult mysa the mother of dragons

[RhaegarMarcTargaryen]

Is it just me or is anyone else pissed off that this supposed boy king Aegon Targaryen just rocks up out of absolutely nowhere and has an immense opportunity to sieze the Iron Throne.

It feels like hes stealing it! For books and books we have been reading and following Danearys Targaryen's journey towards her ultimate goal - getting her fathers throne back.

All of a sudden Aegon comes out of nowhere and at this stage I just dont feel like there needs to be another contestant for the throne.

It just feels like an all to sudden plot change crammed into the story at the last minute to add a bit of extra spice to the Targaryen situation and to the War of the Kings.

I'm not pissed at all How does this piss anyone off??? These are prequels to the game of thrones series. Everyone who knows game of thrones knows the targaryens ruled since aegon the conquerer combined all 7 kingdoms and even ruled before that. If that pisses you off definitely don't buy the prequel book coming out in October

[RhaegarMarcTargaryen]

How does this piss anyone off??? These are prequels to the game of thrones series. Everyone who knows game of thrones knows the targaryens ruled since aegon the conquerer combined all 7 kingdoms if this upsets you do not buy the prequel book coming out in october

[The King in Black]

Aegon > Dany???? No friggin way

Dany gave birth to dragons There is AC after conquering and BC before conquering that refers to aegon uniting 7 kingdoms. Dragons were a dime a dozen he just had the balls to fly on a huge dragon (forgot the name) and burn people to death or they yielded and kept their lands as lords

There was a storm and the dragons danced and all died

Dany> Aegon because she gave birth to dragons got on drogon the biggest craziest dragon she had while he was burning people and eating them she had the balls to to use her whip and say no her hair gets burned off again and flies away.

How can Aegon be better than Danny??

Madness. Plus the old targaryens knew the spells to control their dragons

What does Danny know? Trachares meaning spit fire???

Never insult mysa the mother of dragons

Mysa'a war will be fought and won for her by others. She got everything going for her in ludicrously simple ways yet she has done nothing spectacular whatsoever,deus ex machinas solve her problems for her.

Is she greater than aegon? Yup she still is but let's not pretend that aegon will simply die of a coronary to pave way for her. He'll either be her greatest nemesis or greatest ally, but he'll have a big impact on every storyline, that's for sure

[SunflashJT]

Personally I am an Aegon is real supporter, and I like the idea of him on the throne with Dany as his wife and queen.

[Justin Amey]

Is it just me or is anyone else pissed off that this supposed boy king Aegon Targaryen just rocks up out of absolutely nowhere and has an immense opportunity to sieze the Iron Throne.

It feels like hes stealing it! For books and books we have been reading and following Danearys Targaryen's journey towards her ultimate goal - getting her fathers throne back.

All of a sudden Aegon comes out of nowhere and at this stage I just dont feel like there needs to be another contestant for the throne.

It just feels like an all to sudden plot change crammed into the story at the last minute to add a bit of extra spice to the Targaryen situation and to the War of the Kings.

1GRRM hinted to his survival since book 1 and since ppl have been looking for him. I think ppl are pissed as where he has been this whole and how easily it was explained.

2 He is not stealing it, he is the rightful heir.

3 Dany was suppose to meet with Aegon on her way back to westeros and they take the 7 kingdoms together, but she playing in Merreen, so Aegon was like fuk it i will do it my self.

There is no way he is the real McCoy. After all the speculation regarding the Golden Company and the backstory of the Blackfyres' failed rebellions, they would be the very last to want to support a Targaryen. I don't know if any of you have read the Dunk and Egg stories, but they are pretty explicit in describing the enmity between the two Houses and just how close Daemon came to defeating the Loyalists. Why would a Company forged in defeat at the hands of the Targaryens want to foster their long lost prince and return him to the Iron Throne? There is only one answer I can conceive, which is that Aegon = Faegon. My best guess is that he comes from a hidden branch of the Blackfyres (many suspect Illyrio's Serra to be the mother, herself possibly being a daughter of Maelys the Monstrous). Daemon Blackfyre had seven sons, three of which were too young to be involved in the Blackfyre Rebellion or mentioned in the Dunk and Egg stories. Come forward 80 years and another failed rebellion somewhere in the middle and you have much more probability of that line producing a boy child of the right age and appearance to carry of the Mummer's charade.

Viserys and Dany approached the GC before to help them take the Ream back, If they hated Targs so much why didn't kill them? :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

Just because you don't like the plot doesn't mean it came from nowhere. Martin began spreading doubt about Aegon's death in ACOK, with the HOTU prophesy concerning a mummer's dragon. When asked, he has never said Aegon was dead; you can look this up in the So Spake Martin section, going back to 2000. Also AFFC seems to also hint at this, with the story about the blackTarg inn sign that fell into the river, which found its way thousands of miles down stream, by which point it was red with rust.

I think Aegon is a fraud, a Blackfyre, for reasons mentioned already. Personally I think some fans are upset moreso because Dany could have easily been in this position, if her story went different. What if Connington and Aegon arrived earlier during her Mereen story and proved their worth during the battle with the Yunkai; same with Tyrion. Afterwards they could head for Voltantis, free it with help of the dragons, and head off to Westeros. That type of plot seems like it could have been done, but instead Dany has taken the long road while Aegon took the fast one.

I honestly think Aegon will sit on the throne before TWOW ends. Meanwhile I have no idea what Dany will do next, although I look forward to seeing what her decision is. I just hope to god she doesn't hang around with dothraki for multiple chapters before heading back to Mereen.

I don't think Varys would be so confident in Aegon if he was fake. Dany has dragons that could eat him at will. him being a fake is a quick way into a dragon's belly, I think he real.

It didn't. People have been theorizing an Aegon return since the first time we were told that the babies face was unrecognisably smashed in. thats in AGoT IIRC...

And that theory doubled in strength (and some) when GRRM confirmed Rahenys was dead but notably did not confirm the same of Aegon.

Try a re-read and pay closer attention this time to what they actually say, and what they are now, as opposed to what they were 2 generations ago.

:bowdown:

Also I think Illyrio when talking to Tyrion he says "Red or Black a dragon is a dragon"

It can also be interpreted as the GC wanting to go home and they don't care if back under Targ banner to do so.

It's been 5 books and Dany still hasn't reached Westeros.

Aegon reached Westeros and made an explosive entrance in just 1 book!

Aegon > Dany.

I personally believe he's legit. The Blackfyre theory has more holes than swiss cheese.

:agree:

I don't think that it is the default position of the books. Of the people who have met or heard of Aegon so far, Tyrion has his doubts, Doran has his doubts, Arianne shares Doran's doubts, Randyll Tarly, Mace Tyrell and Kevan Lannister all doubt him. It is a massive cloud of doubt that seems to be the books position at this time.

I was wrong before, because on closer inspection even Illyrio doesn't ever say that Aegon is a Targaryen and the real deal. Jon Connington does, but thinks he is because he was specifically told so by Varys. It all ultimately comes down to the word of Varys saying that he is Aegon Targaryen VI. Varys told Connington and Varys told Kevan, everybody else doubts it.

The alleged baby swap is in and of itself a bit ridiculous and fraught with inconsistencies and on that we definitely only have Varys word that it ever occurred. The baby swap story exists nowhere outside of Varys' dialouge so can't possibly be the default position of the books, however without a baby swap, the idea of Aegon being legitimate is impossible.

So it is all entirely reliant on Varys words.

The baby swap is far more possible than varys and Illyrio scouring the free cites for a substitute to fool JonCon.

None of that changes the default position though. He is presented to the readers as a true Aegon, in diguise as Young Griff.

Most of those doubts are utterly irrelevant as they belong to people who have literally zero knowledge of the actual events, or fAegon himself.

Its a similar situation as Joffrey's parentage, except this time in reverse. Joffrey is presented initially as a real Baratheon, but then we are shown increasing eveidence amounting to proof of his falseness. But until that evidence mounted, he was presented to us as a Baratheon. Just so fAegon is presented to us as Aegon masquerading as Young Griff, once we get past the masquerade. As evidence mounts, if it mounts, that he is false, then he will be presented to us as Faegon, who believes he is Aegon, and was masquerading as Young Griff.

Right now there is not enough evidence to be assured of that so his current presentation is as Aegon, with enough doubt to be nicknamed fAegon by readers. But the default is still Aegon, and there is no solid alternative yet (pisswater boy and secret blackfyre running favourites, but both unofficial)

Simply not true. Its basic, simple and easy to execute and there are no inconsistancies or problems.

Plenty of readers like to invent problems and inconsistencies, but I've yet to see one that stands up.

Joffery was convinced that that he was the son of Robert B, but certain ppl knew otherwise. Look at all the trouble The Lannisters went through went Ned Stark exposed that bomb shell. That started a war that consumed the realm. Varys knew this all along so why in the 7 hells would he go right around and try put another fake on the throne knowing that another war could happen just as easily? :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: