Joseph Stark Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 So a question that came to mind after reading Cersei's memories about her sex life with King Robert is what exactly was ol' Robert doing to her that she was so displeased with? Was it just that he was handling her rough or was there more to it?(The details are kind of vague) Another question is was he like this with all women or just her? He has been with many many women highborn ladies, tavern wenches, and whores and has a reputation of being a heavy drinker and a womanizer, but his reputation as being very generous and making friends easily makes him more seem like a jolly old fat man who loves life and lives it to the fullest(and in excess) and besides his love of battle and his understandable hatred of the Targs he doesnt come off as a mean drunk or an abbuser who likes to hurt people just for fun. We definately dont hear any other reports of him being abusive towards women, in fact we get the opposite that some of these women are quite fond of him and dont mind sharing a bed with him at all.(like the whore at chatayas in KL and the one at the Peach that claims Bella is his daughter) So why the different MO with Cersei? Was it because he actually hated her and was just using sex as a way to exert his control over her rather then it being about his sexual desire for her? What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 He only came to her when he was drunk, it was rough and not pretty. All the women that said they liked him probably said so because... hey, the king. Just sayin.Plus, she would be displeased no matter what. Remember her wedding night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Cersei hates Robert because he called her "Lyanna" on her wedding night and she can't forgive any insult to her pride, no matter how small. So, like the psycho she is, she essentially spent the entirety of her marriage waging war on her husband in every way she knew how, and demonized him in her mind so she could feel that she was in the right when in fact she was in the wrong. I am convinced that her memories of him, as she describes him in AFFC, are immensely exaggerating the actual harm he did her and ignoring anything nice he did. Two things are telling here: when Ned asks Cersei why she hates Robert, she doesn't talk of beatings and rapings, she talks of him calling the wrong name even though Ned probably would have been more sympathetic if she had; and secondly, even Jaime doesn't seem to hate Robert even half as much as Cersei, he resents him as a drunken oaf rather than vilifying him as a monster. So yeah, I call bullshit on Cersei here. We know for a fact that she is ignoring her own bad behavior, vilifying the other, and building herself up as a victim when she talks about Sansa, so why is it so hard for some people to grasp that she's being equally unfair to Robert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Let's not go place all the blame on Cersei please. I don't like her at all, but just like she hated Bob for calling her Lyanna, he resented her as much for not being Lyanna. Or, his dreamy imagine of Lyanna that probably was nothing like the real deal.. but y'know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Let's not go place all the blame on Cersei please. I don't like her at all, but just like she hated Bob for calling her Lyanna, he resented her as much for not being Lyanna. Or, his dreamy imagine of Lyanna that probably was nothing like the real deal.. but y'know what I mean. How do you know that? It seems to me that Robert resented Cersei mainly because she was awful to him. If she'd been good to him he probably would have gotten over Lyanna and come to love her. But because she makes him miserable, he remains hung up on Lyanna, who in his mind represents the happy marriage that he should have had and didn't get. That's the meaning, I believe, behind the words "Rhaegar won, damn him... he has Lyanna now, and I have her." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Robert raped Cersei plenty of times. No doubt about it. The unreliable narrator stuff is a really lame excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Crows Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 He resented her for certain. The sexual aspect of their relationship seems like a simple case of her not desiring him and him drunkenly taking his husbandly "rights". Alcohol + Amorous King = not tender loving care... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Its been awhile since my last re read, but I kind of remember Bob had good intentions, unlist at the begining of their marriage, like inviting her to his hunting trips....Things were never going to work with Cersei, even without the "Lyanna" thing. Remember she banged Jaime the day of her own wedding. Bob could have fathered a bastard even if he was the perfect husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Its been awhile since my last re read, but I kind of remember Bob had good intentions, unlist at the begining of their marriage, like inviting her to his hunting trips.... Only a moron like Bob would think a hunting trip was a good idea. He didn't know his wife at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 It seems to me that Robert resented Cersei mainly because she was awful to him. If she'd been good to him he probably would have gotten over Lyanna and come to love her. But because she makes him miserable, he remains hung up on Lyanna, who in his mind represents the happy marriage that he should have had and didn't get. That's the meaning, I believe, behind the words "Rhaegar won, damn him [....] he has Lyanna now, and I have her." This is the worst excuse for abouse that I have ever read. puff please. Cersei is a bitch an by no means a saint, but Robert is the king of self-pitying man who would never have been happy with what he had, not if he could cry over what he'd lost instead and use it as an excuse to sleep around and feel justified. He still mistreated her, shamed her in public and be just plain awful -- also, Robert wouldn't even have been happy with Lyanna if he'd gotten her, IMO (and also let's not forget the "love is sweet, but it can't change a man's nature" quote) and he definitely would never have been happy with Cersei They absolutely deserved each other, but was very much a mutual destruction thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Only a moron like Bob would think a hunting trip was a good idea. He didn't know his wife at all.and so? that doesnt mean he had no good intentions with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Robert raped Cersei plenty of times. No doubt about it. The unreliable narrator stuff is a really lame excuse.I see a medieval husband taking his "rights" with his wife. Disgusting? of course. But if we are going to apply our rape 21 century standars to asoif half of what happens is rape. Starting with Rhaegar who has sex with a 14-15 years old girl....rape under most of western laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 This is the worst excuse for abouse that I have ever read. puff please. Cersei is a bitch an by no means a saint, but Robert is the king of self-pitying man who would never have been happy with what he had, not if he could cry over what he'd lost instead and use it as an excuse to sleep around and feel justified. He still mistreated her, shamed her in public and be just plain awful -- also, Robert wouldn't even have been happy with Lyanna if he'd gotten her, IMO (and also let's not forget the "love is sweet, but it can't change a man's nature" quote) and he definitely would never have been happy with Cersei They absolutely deserved each other, but was very much a mutual destruction thing. There is certainly room for differing interpretations here, but remember, we only get to see Robert and Cersei after they've been miserably married for many years and their pattern of mutual abuse is well-established. We do not see them early on when they were getting to know each other and feeling each other out. Given everything we know about Cersei (spiteful, vengeful, never forgives a slight, treats people as either all-good or all-evil with no in-between) and everything we know about Robert (drunk and promiscuous but also generous and forgiving), I think it is far more likely that she was mainly responsible for the development of their dysfunctional relationship. I simply and flatly disagree with you about the point I bolded. I expect Robert would have slept around and fathered bastards no matter who he married, but I doubt he would have been abusive to a wife who didn't give him so much cause to hate her. No matter how nice someone is and no matter how hard they try, if the other person doesn't give them a chance and treats them like an enemy at every turn, it's not going to work. Even if Robert had been a saint, that one wrong word on the wedding night probably would have still sunk their marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Stark Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 So what do you think he actually did to her? Was it rape in the sense that she didnt want it or did she resist and he actually held her down and forced her? By abusive do you just mean rough sex or do you think he actually hit her? IIRC she told Ned that he had only hit her a few times and never in the face. Was what he did to her along the same lines and what Aerys did to his wife after the burnings? I would just like to know what the quote "what brought him pleasure at night shamed him in the morning" was in reference to?(not exact quote im paraphrasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 There is certainly room for differing interpretations here, but remember, we only get to see Robert and Cersei after they've been miserably married for many years and their pattern of mutual abuse is well-established. We do not see them early on when they were getting to know each other and feeling each other out. Given everything we know about Cersei (spiteful, vengeful, never forgives a slight, treats people as either all-good or all-evil with no in-between) and everything we know about Robert (drunk and promiscuous but also generous and forgiving), I think it is far more likely that she was mainly responsible for the development of their dysfunctional relationship. I simply and flatly disagree with you about the point I bolded. I expect Robert would have slept around and fathered bastards no matter who he married, but I doubt he would have been abusive to a wife who didn't give him so much cause to hate her.Your bolded basically agrees with me that Robert would have been a bad husband to Cersei no matter what. That 'hunting trip' line someone brought out is IMO Robert in a nutshell - he makes efforts, but never serious ones. He wants to share with Cersei things he likes, at first, but never cares to find out what she would enjoy. He's a selfish person (and I don't mean only in bed) and fundamentally lazy, which meant he'd never have made real efforts.Also, the underlined text: Cersei giving him cause to hate her was no cause to be an abusive jerk. I do realize I'm kinda going against my own dogma of 'judging by real-world standards' here, and him being rough and shaming her in public was perfectly accepted behavior.. but still, I couldn't see a Ned Stark acting that way if he were the one married to Cersei.But let's just agree to disagree, I see that we at least see eye to eye on the 'mutual cycle of destruction' bit. :) So what do you think he actually did to her? Was it rape in the sense that she didnt want it or did she resist and he actually held her down and forced her? By abusive do you just mean rough sex or do you think he actually hit her? IIRC she told Ned that he had only hit her a few times and never in the face. Was what he did to her along the same lines and what Aerys did to his wife after the burnings? I would just like to know what the quote "what brought him pleasure at night shamed him in the morning" was in reference to?(not exact quote im paraphrasing.Robert saw himself as a good man, and good men don't hurt their wives during sex. I've always read it like that - he got, uhm, 'intense', and saw the bruises in the morning and pretended not to remember. He never hit her I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Robert Baratheon, the First of His Name, may there never be a second. A dim, drunken brute of a man. Let him weep in hell. Taena warmed the bed as well as Robert ever had, and never tried to force Cersei’s legs apart.... She wondered what it would feel like to suckle on those breasts, to lay the Myrish woman on her back and push her legs apart and use her as a man would use her, the way Robert would use her when the drink was in him, and she was unable to bring him off with hand or mouth.Those had been the worst nights, lying helpless underneath him as he took his pleasure, stinking of wine and grunting like a boar. Usually he rolled off and went to sleep as soon as it was done, and was snoring before his seed could dry upon her thighs. She was always sore afterward, raw between the legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. The only time he’d ever made her wet was on their wedding nigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 This is just so terribly sad, and IMO goes nicely with my idea that Cersei's... thing with Taena was nothing more than a way to feel 'in charge like a man' more than any sexual experimenation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theon'sSong Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 it's not a matter of interpretation, GRRM meant to portray Robert as a terrible husband, unfit king, ultimately a drunkard and scorned lover miscast in the role of a hero. man of very little redeeming qualities in his latter years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 it's not a matter of interpretation, GRRM meant to portray Robert as a terrible husband, unfit king, ultimately a drunkard and scorned lover miscast in the role of a hero. man of very little redeeming qualities in his latter yearsI agree with you on Robert, but everything is open to interpretation.That's the beauty of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Stark Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 She was always sore afterward, raw between the legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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