Men of the rivers

[Wmarshal]

Robb was sneaking into enemy territory to attack a enemy army in an unknown region , he would definitely need a rear guard then so he does not get trapped between two armies. After destroying the army he had total control of the West and would have scouts out looking for Tywin so he would not need protection then.

No he didn't, Tywin far away and not moving. As to in the West, Robb did not know the West like Tywin did, he had no where to run when entered and the backing of his lords.

[Blackfish Tully]

No he didn't, Tywin far away and not moving. As to in the West, Robb did not know the West like Tywin did, he had no where to run when entered and the backing of his lords.

Tywin could move at any moment , you cannot assume in warfare that the enemy is going to just sit there and not be prepared for the unexpected unless you want to end up like Jaimie Lannister and crushed at the Whispering Woods.

Once Robb had destroyed the army at Oxcross he had total control of the West , there was no one left there to challenge him so he could go anywhere in the West he wanted to except he could not take Casterly Rock or Lannisport . The Western lords could do nothing but hide in their castles. The Blackfish's scouts would have been all over the West and they would have been ready if Tywin crossed over the river.

[Wmarshal]

Tywin could move at any moment , you cannot assume in warfare that the enemy is going to just sit there and not be prepared for the unexpected unless you want to end up like Jaimie Lannister and crushed at the Whispering Woods.

Once Robb had destroyed the army at Oxcross he had total control of the West , there was no one left there to challenge him so he could go anywhere in the West he wanted to except he could not take Casterly Rock or Lannisport . The Western lords could do nothing but hide in their castles. The Blackfish's scouts would have been all over the West and they would have been ready if Tywin crossed over the river.

Yeah you can, Tywin at the time was sitting in Harrenhall unmoving, Robb was quick quiet as a mouse snuck into the West.

And what? Try to trick him? In his own home? Robb was out numbered and outclass, any fool see that.

Edmure letting Tywin past was Robb's doom.

[Blackfish Tully]

Yeah you can, Tywin at the time was sitting in Harrenhall unmoving, Robb was quick quiet as a mouse snuck into the West.

And what? Try to trick him? In his own home? Robb was out numbered and outclass, any fool see that.

Edmure letting Tywin past was Robb's doom.

so you can assume because Tywin has not moved yet that he definitely will not move at any time.

That an assumption a good general cannot afford to make.

The Blackfish is one of the best generals in Westeroes why would he stay in the West if there is no chance they could win if Tywin came West.

If Robb was doomed when Tywin came West then why wasn't Cat worried about that?

Because she trusted her uncle would be able to protect himself and her son.

[Wmarshal]

so you can assume because Tywin has not moved yet that he definitely will not move at any time.

That an assumption a good general cannot afford to make.

The Blackfish is one of the best generals in Westeroes why would he stay in the West if there is no chance they could win if Tywin came West.

If Robb was doomed when Tywin came West then why wasn't Cat worried about that?

Because she trusted her uncle would be able to protect himself and her son.

I assume Tywin can't teleport himself into areas like show Baelish.

Probably because he knew Edmure would stop him.

Fuck if I know, she gave go good reason not to attack Tywin.

Again, Edmure had his orders.

[Blackfish Tully]

I assume Tywin can't teleport himself into areas like show Baelish.

Probably because he knew Edmure would stop him.

Fuck if I know, she gave go good reason not to attack Tywin.

Again, Edmure had his orders.

Orders don't last forever. Emdure's orders had expired once Robb crushed the Lannisters at Oxcross. Red Fork was his decision and did not have anything to do with his orders.

The last thing Tywin was worried about was Edmure stopping him , The Lannisters had easily defeated the Riverlords at every turn.

Tywin did not have to teleport himself, all he needed was one scout to see Robb heading West and he could has been on the move the next day to try and catch Robb between his forces. Robb could not just assume that his rear was safe, that would be just stupid.

[Wmarshal]

Orders don't last forever. Emdure's orders had expired once Robb crushed the Lannisters at Oxcross. Red Fork was his decision and did not have anything to do with his orders.

The last thing Tywin was worried about was Edmure stopping him , The Lannisters had easily defeated the Riverlords at every turn.

Tywin did not have to teleport himself, all he needed was one scout to see Robb heading West and he could has been on the move the next day to try and catch Robb between his forces. Robb could not just assume that his rear was safe, that would be just stupid.

If someone no other orders yes they do. How do know you that? Martyn never mentions any of this.

Talking about Brynden

No really couldn't, he had massive host and getting there wasn't a day's ride even small party.

What is stupid is assuming he could get out of the West once Tywin entered.

[Blackfish Tully]

If someone no other orders yes they do. How do you that? Martyn never mentions any of this.

not sure what this even means and when did Martyn become the gospel on when Edmure's orders begin and end?

[Wmarshal]

not sure what this even means and when did Martyn become the gospel on when Edmure's orders begin and end?

Robb gave him little to no information. His orders seem to have no end. Be it he was the only one that reported it.

[Blackfish Tully]

Robb gave him little to no information. His orders seem to have no end. Be it he was the only one that reported it.

we did not have a POV present when Robb gave Edmure his orders so we really have no idea what was said , hopefully in the next book we will see more of Edmure and Blackfish and maybe we will find out more information.

[Wmarshal]

we did not have a POV present when Robb gave Edmure his orders so we really have no idea what was said , hopefully in the next book we will see more of Edmure and Blackfish and maybe we will find out more information.

Yeah we do, from Martyn.

[Barty]

Yeah you can, Tywin at the time was sitting in Harrenhall unmoving, Robb was quick quiet as a mouse snuck into the West.

And what? Try to trick him? In his own home? Robb was out numbered and outclass, any fool see that.

Edmure letting Tywin past was Robb's doom.

You believe that?? KL would have fallen well before Tywin faced Robb(Tywin barely got there in time as is) - and at least everyone can agree that once KL falls Tywin will sue for peace.

It's pretty clear to me that If Edmure had let Tywin pass KL would have fallen, Peace would be signed between the Lannisters and Starks and both sides would now be facing Stannis.

You, like Edmure, ignore the Stannis factor - Letting Tywin pass might have been the doom of Robb had Stannis not been about to take KL. Please read the part where the BF explains Robb's plan - they did not intend to fight Tywin, just make sure he wasted enough time coming west and chasing them that KL falls. Also while Robb's marriage to the westerlings was a huge mistake - it did come with certain advantages, like natives who know the country as well as Tywin for one. Also Robb had months of time to prepare for Tywin's arrival into the west - He and the BF probably had a plan of action ready and seeing as these two are brilliant battlefield minds, its a safe bet that their plan was a bloody good one.

[Wmarshal]

You believe that?? KL would have fallen well before Tywin faced Robb(Tywin barely got there in time as is) - and at least everyone can agree that once KL falls Tywin will sue for peace.

It's pretty clear to me that If Edmure had let Tywin pass KL would have fallen, Peace would be signed between the Lannisters and Starks and both sides would now be facing Stannis.

You, like Edmure, ignore the Stannis factor - Letting Tywin pass might have been the doom of Robb had Stannis not been about to take KL. Please read the part where the BF explains Robb's plan - they did not intend to fight Tywin, just make sure he wasted enough time coming west and chasing them that KL falls. Also while Robb's marriage to the westerlings was a huge mistake - it did come with certain advantages, like natives who know the country as well as Tywin for one. Also Robb had months of time to prepare for Tywin's arrival into the west - He and the BF probably had a plan of action ready and seeing as these two are brilliant battlefield minds, its a safe bet that their plan was a bloody good one.

Why would sue for peace with Robb? Tommen would be alive in Rosby.

Why on earth would they side together? Robb wanted Stannis to win.

And would stop Tywin from gutting them once in side? Nothing. They were not there for months, as to their plan, we already have Martyn telling us that Edmure was syppose to guard their rear, that was the plan.

[Blackfish Tully]

Yeah we do, from Martyn.

Martyn is not a POV character.

[Wmarshal]

Martyn is not a POV character.

But he did have Robb's orders, if what Robb told to only guard him up till he got thru, Martyn would never had repeated it after Robb was pretty in to Cat, for it would have be worthless information.

[Blackfish Tully]

They were not there for months, as to their plan, we already have Martyn telling us that Edmure was syppose to guard their rear, that was the plan.

How long were they there? according to the timeline I referenced earlier Robb and the Blackfish were in the West for over 90 days , that sounds like a few months to me.

[Barty]

Why would sue for peace with Robb? Tommen would be alive in Rosby.

Why on earth would they side together? Robb wanted Stannis to win.

And would stop Tywin from gutting them once in side? Nothing. They were not there for months, as to their plan, we already have Martyn telling us that Edmure was syppose to guard their rear, that was the plan.

And Stannis wouldnt find out where Tommen was?? Or is Gyles Rosby so trustworthy? Did Tywin even know Tommen was alive? The fact is that even if Tommen is alive and by some miracle falls into the hands of Tywin - Tywin would still want peace with Robb. Currently Stannis is holding the capital with as many men as Tywin, And Stannis and Robb are enemies so are Tywin and Stannis. If Tywin attacks Robb - he will lose thousands of his men, and will drive the remaining Northmen(10k with Bolton) and riverlords(11k with Edmure) right to Stannis. Tywin would be reducing his strength, while at the same time strengthening his enemy.

Tywin is not that stupid. He knows Robb is a man of his word and wants to go back North to fight the ironborn, so he will want to sign a peace treaty(not an alliance) with Robb to make sure he can concentrate on Stannis and keep his main force intact.

Also why do you think Robb wants Stannis to win?? Robb surely wants Stannis to take KL, cause that rids him of Cersei,Tyrion, Joffrey and maybe Tommen all in one stroke but he is still Stannis' enemy - he does not want to bend the knee to Stannis and is willing to fight him if Stannis forces the issue(which he will)

Again - fear of facing to enemies at once will stop Tywin from gutting Robb in the side. They were there for almost the entirety of CoK - that's probably a few months. And how on earth does this Martyn know anything?? A bastard knows the orders a king gave Edmure better than the king himself?

[Wmarshal]

And Stannis wouldnt find out where Tommen was?? Or is Gyles Rosby so trustworthy? Did Tywin even know Tommen was alive? The fact is that even if Tommen is alive and by some miracle falls into the hands of Tywin - Tywin would still want peace with Robb. Currently Stannis is holding the capital with as many men as Tywin, And Stannis and Robb are enemies so are Tywin and Stannis. If Tywin attacks Robb - he will lose thousands of his men, and will drive the remaining Northmen(10k with Bolton) and riverlords(11k with Edmure) right to Stannis. Tywin would be reducing his strength, while at the same time strengthening his enemy.

Tywin is not that stupid. He knows Robb is a man of his word and wants to go back North to fight the ironborn, so he will want to sign a peace treaty(not an alliance) with Robb to make sure he can concentrate on Stannis and keep his main force intact.

Also why do you think Robb wants Stannis to win?? Robb surely wants Stannis to take KL, cause that rids him of Cersei,Tyrion, Joffrey and maybe Tommen all in one stroke but he is still Stannis' enemy - he does not want to bend the knee to Stannis and is willing to fight him if Stannis forces the issue(which he will)

Again - fear of facing to enemies at once will stop Tywin from gutting Robb in the side. They were there for almost the entirety of CoK - that's probably more than half a year. And how on earth does this Martyn know anything?? A bastard knows the orders a king gave Edmure better than the king himself?

Mayb, maybe not, still will take along time to get into the castle. Gyles is no longer in charge in his own castle. Why would he want peace? Robb and Stannis are not enemies, Robb wanted Stannis to win. They would go to him anyway, you Robb would side with the Lannisters in any case? He would give up his crown before that. How would loose a lot of men? Robb had 7000 vs his 20,000 he would crush Robb.

Robb never wanted to be king, just save his father and the North.

He isn't facing two enemies, just Robb. No it isn't, they were there when Cat got back, a while later Edmure faces Tywin and a little later they return.

What does it matter if he is a bastard? He was head of scouts and was probably there. And haven't notice, in that whole speech Robb gave Edmure it had one purpose; marry Edmure to a Frey.

[Lord Damian]

Blackfish, he tells off Jaime to his face and fears no one. His enemies fear him. Edmure is a joke.

[Barty]

Mayb, maybe not, still will take along time to get into the castle. Gyles is no longer in charge in his own castle. Why would he want peace? Robb and Stannis are not enemies, Robb wanted Stannis to win. They would go to him anyway, you Robb would side with the Lannisters in any case? He would give up his crown before that. How would loose a lot of men? Robb had 7000 vs his 20,000 he would crush Robb.

Robb never wanted to be king, just save his father and the North.

He isn't facing two enemies, just Robb. No it isn't, they were there when Cat got back, a while later Edmure faces Tywin and a little later they return.

What does it matter if he is a bastard? He was head of scouts and was probably there. And haven't notice, in that whole speech Robb gave Edmure it had one purpose; marry Edmure to a Frey.

Of course Robb and Stannis are enemies - Robb has already refused to bend the knee to Stannis and Stannis has already declared Robb his enemy. Again siding with the Lannisters implies Robb is teaming up with them - he is not. They are signing a peace treaty(Robb had already proposed peace with the Lannisters before - I dont see why you think Robb is too proud to actually do it). Please try to understand the difference between a peace treaty and alliance. North Korea and South Korea have peace currently - does not mean they have joined up together.

Again you are comparing pure numbers - even after I have explained the loss is not the main threat, its the 20k+men that will join Stannis if Tywin kills Robb that is the main threat. Also you are very quick to write off a general that has managed to defeat Lannister armies at 3-1 odds. It is clear that Robb is a battlefield prodigy - if you think any battle against him is going to be easy you are sorely mistaken.

As for Martyn - he was not head of the scouts when the order was given - that would be the blackfish. He became head of the scouts after robb left