A Man Has Said Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Stannis. Tywin was more of a terrorist than a battle commander. When he sent Gregor and Amory Lorch into the Riverlands, that was straight up a war crime. (later he hired Vargo Hoat to do the same - rapine, plunder and terrorism.) I don't know why anyone would want to compare Stannis to Tywin Lannister in any respect. Stannis is flawed, but a far, far better man than Tywin, who is basically the Westerosi version of Professor Moriarty - the force behind every truly evil deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Military: StannisPolitics: Tywin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 This is a pretty cut and dry answer. Stannis is the better battle commander, no question. I would really love to see Tywin in the North trying to rally troops and prepare them for battle. I honestly don't think Tywin had the mettle for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Feybrad Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Um more like Tyrion's lol I doubt it took very much convincing to win over the Tyrells, who were already kind of in the shit with Stannis at the time. Um wtf, Tyrion did all of that. He also brought Dorne onto their side, which is HUGE considering the Lannister enmity going on there. The Dornish were almost assuredly going to join Renly soon once he won a few victories so they could get their justice. Wasn't it Littlefinger who brought the tyrell's into the Fold? Because - yes, Tywin told him to do so, but he was busy losing the War against Robb to do it himself. This can#t be attributed to a Lannister, that was Petyr Baelish. Tyrion did ensure Dorne's Neutrality, not their Support. There is a huge Difference in that. And Stannis didn't really get his Arse kicked - he could not have known of the Wildfire Trap and still recovered from the Loss of his Fleet and would have taken King's landing if not for the timely Tyrell Intervention - which he also couldn't have included into his plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael Abel Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Wasn't it Littlefinger who brought the tyrell's into the Fold? Because - yes, Tywin told him to do so, but he was busy losing the War against Robb to do it himself. This can#t be attributed to a Lannister, that was Petyr Baelish. Tyrion did ensure Dorne's Neutrality, not their Support. There is a huge Difference in that. And Stannis didn't really get his Arse kicked - he could not have known of the Wildfire Trap and still recovered from the Loss of his Fleet and would have taken King's landing if not for the timely Tyrell Intervention. Tyrion sent LF to try to bring the Reach to the side of the Lannisters. Tywin even credits this as one of Tyrion's successes as hand when Tyrion confronts him after waking up from his injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iliasb Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 And Stannis didn't really get his Arse kicked - he could not have known of the Wildfire Trap and still recovered from the Loss of his Fleet and would have taken King's landing if not for the timely Tyrell Intervention - which he also couldn't have included into his plans. But by the time his army - consisting of men loyal to Renly, not Stannis - realized they were losing the war, they had already tucked tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iliasb Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Oh, I don't doubt that Stannis is better on the field of battle, that wasn't my point. With quill and paper, Tywin has him seriously outmatched. “Wars are won with quills and ravens, wasn't that what you said?” - Tyrion Lannister (double post, sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Feybrad Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Tyrion sent LF to try to bring the Reach to the side of the Lannisters. Tywin even credits this as one of Tyrion's successes as hand when Tyrion confronts him after waking up from his injuries. So it is even less to be attributed to Tywin. The Guy wasn't involved at all. Case closed! But by the time his army - consisting of men loyal to Renly, not Stannis - realized they were losing the war, they had already tucked tail. And that is Stannis' fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Stannis. He's as ruthless as Tywin but has thrice the amount of balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Wasn't it Littlefinger who brought the tyrell's into the Fold? Because - yes, Tywin told him to do so, but he was busy losing the War against Robb to do it himself. This can#t be attributed to a Lannister, that was Petyr Baelish. Tyrion did ensure Dorne's Neutrality, not their Support. There is a huge Difference in that. And Stannis didn't really get his Arse kicked - he could not have known of the Wildfire Trap and still recovered from the Loss of his Fleet and would have taken King's landing if not for the timely Tyrell Intervention - which he also couldn't have included into his plans. No, he ensured their support as well, it just wasn't needed by the time all of this was going down. It's why Oberyn went to King's Landing, to take a small council seat and help rule. If it came to blows again, the Dornish would certainly be expected to make some sort of contribution. For instance, if the Stormlands wasn't so easily cowed, they would very likely be expected to lead a host to subdue them. Whether or not they would is up for debate, but it was expected by the terms of their marriage pact. What use is Myrcella if they aren't going to help uphold the power structure that, you know, gives her power? And no it was all Tyrion, not Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal_got Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Stannis never trusted Varys and Littlefinger Tywin trusted Varys and Littlefinger Who is alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Stannis never trusted Varys and Littelfinger Tywin trusted Varys and Littelfinger Who is alive? /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Stannis. He's as ruthless as Tywin but has thrice the amount of balls. So, Stannis has 6 balls :leaving: Sorry, I still love Stannis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Feybrad Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 No, he ensured their support as well, it just wasn't needed by the time all of this was going down. It's why Oberyn went to King's Landing, to take a small council seat and help rule. If it came to blows again, the Dornish would certainly be expected to make some sort of contribution. For instance, if the Stormlands wasn't so easily cowed, they would very likely be expected to lead a host to subdue them. Whether or not they would is up for debate, but it was expected by the terms of their marriage pact. What use is Myrcella if they aren't going to help uphold the power structure that, you know, gives her power? And no it was all Tyrion, not Tywin. Thank you for the Enlightenment. Tyrion defeated Stannis by means of Diplomacy when he was losing the Battle of Blackwater despite the Wildfire, while Tywin lost the War to Robb. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iliasb Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 And that is Stannis' fault? Well, you could say he expected too much from them to be loyal to someone they were preparing to fight. That's where Stannis made a mistake and tried to keep them straight, while their loyalty was with Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 So, Stannis has 6 9 titanium balls :leaving: Sorry, I still love Stannis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Feybrad Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well, you could say he expected too much from them to be loyal to someone they were preparing to fight. That's where Stannis made a mistake and tried to keep them straight, while their loyalty was with Renly. I don't actually think, their Loyalty to Renly was the Reason they fled. The Tyrell's Loyalty was with renly and they turned the Tide, but Stannis never expected the Tyrells to fight for him. His own Troops fled, when the battle was already lost due to the unexpected reinforcements turning tides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iliasb Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 I don't actually think, their Loyalty to renly was the Reason they fled. They were sworn bannermen hosue Baratheon. They chose Renly over Stannis.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well, Robb was the most loved by his army, and his campaign would draw a thumbs up from Sun Tzu, minus the lack of spies. I agree that Robb was probably the most loved by his army and he definately had the potential to become a great commander. Not sure abouth the thumbs up from Sun Tzu though because Robb made one fatal mistake. He failed to fully apprise Edmure of his plans and his order of "hold Riverrun" was vague at best. Given Hosters health, Edmure was basically the de facto Lord of Riverrun and Robb failing to fully apprise him of his plan is really inexcusable. This of course ended up having dire consequences for both Robb and Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Feybrad Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 They were sworn bannermen hosue Baratheon. They chose Renly over Stannis.... Yeah, but the second Renly died all of them came running to Stannis. They chose out of Opportunism, always. They were with Renly, since he had the largest Army and the greatest Chance of Victory. Then they were with Stannis, when Renly's great Army disbanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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