Stannis or Tywin?

[iliasb]

Who is a better battle leader: Stannis or Tywin?

I don't know much about their capabilities of leading an army, so I would like to know from you who is better. Or perhaps someone else e.g. Ned, Robb, Jaime,...?

[Jacob Feybrad]

Define Leader, would you kindly?

I think, Stannis is a far more competent battle Commander and in a more idealistic Fantasy World, he would actually make a great political leader, but for Westeros' politics, he is too strict.

Tywin is not that bad of a battle Commander either, but his true Strength lies in Ruling a fucked up world like Westeros is.

All in all, i would add it up to a tie. Stannis would beat Tywin in Battle, but Tywin would be more comfortable in ruling the Mess.

[Frey Pentos]

Who is a better leader: Stannis or Tywin?

I don't know much about their capabilities of leading an army, so I would like to know from you who is better. Or perhaps someone else e.g. Ned, Robb, Jaime,...?

Tywin. He pretty much bested Stannis before Tyrion killed him. Didn't need a Red Witch either.

[Leonardo]

I think Stannis would probably be a better king if that's what you're asking, but both their methods are pretty similar. I don't think Stannis would ever abuse his children like Tywin was wont to do though; the whole Tysha thing would never have happened were he in Tywin's place I reckon. It would shame him greatly, but he wouldn't do the same as Tywin.

[Ziggy Targdust]

Tywin maybe better if you live directly under his lands, there's a lot of economic oppurtunity in his lands. But if you don't live there it's pretty much, "fuk you, fear me"

So overall I say Stannis.

[Frey Pentos]

I think Stannis would probably be a better king if that's what you're asking, but both their methods are pretty similar. I don't think Stannis would ever abuse his children like Tywin was wont to do though; the whole Tysha thing would never have happened were he in Tywin's place I reckon. It would shame him greatly, but he wouldn't do the same as Tywin.

The question is about leadership rather than who would be the nicest to their children.

[Sullen]

Tywin was much more effective leader than Stannis could hope to be, his brutal efficiency and ruthlessness were the stuff of legends. Stannis's obsession with justice makes him a good, ideal king on paper, but extremely weak and problematic in practice, where leadership requires you to negotiate with lords that should owe you their allegiance (and we know that seriously peeves Stannis).

That being said, I think that despite his faults, Stannis is more morally desirable, and could inspire love in some (but not a lot) of men. Tywin mostly ruled through fear, and his only subject we can be truly sure loved him was Pycelle.

[iliasb]

Define Leader, would you kindly?

Leader as in battle, which is logic I think :dunno:

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Stannis is the better battle commander, while Tywin is a more effective politician.

[SkaggCannibal]

Stannis

[Cersei the Great]

As alluded to by others, Stannis would make a better king and Tywin a better leader.

[iliasb]

Tywin was much more effective leader than Stannis could hope to be, his brutal efficiency and ruthlessness were the stuff of legends.

Stannis defeated The Iron Fleet whereas Tywin failed to protect the Lannister fleet, so perhaps Stannis isn't as ineffective as people think. Perhaps Tywin had more chances to prove himself (RR, WoTFK) while Stannis lived in Robert's shadow. Same as Tywin and Kevan :dunno:

[Leonardo]

The question is about leadership rather than who would be the nicest to their children.

And isn't everyone in Westeros basically your child or at least your responsibility as king?

I think how you treat your children says a loooot about a person, hence why I said what I did ;D

[Bael Abel]

Well, Robb was the most loved by his army, and his campaign would draw a thumbs up from Sun Tzu, minus the lack of spies.

Stannis' loss in the battle of Blackwater Bay was primarily the fault of Ser Imry Florent for not seeing the warning signs that were obvious to Ser Davos, and Edmure Tully, who kept Tywin in the riverlands just long enough for him to know he had to rush to KL.

Tywin wasn't a great leader from what I've gathered, just a very intimidating one with a good mind for intrigue. His victories were based off betrayal and political alliances, not from his skill as a leader.

[Jacob Feybrad]

Tywin. He pretty much bested Stannis before Tyrion killed him. Didn't need a Red Witch either.

I think you may be mistaken. In fact, it was the Tyrells Military and Littlefingers diplomatic Effort who brought Stannis down at the Blackwater. Tywin himself was bested by Robb Stark in Terms of Battles and even lost to Edmure Tully. Tywin did never straight up fight Stannis on his own.

And, as Leadership in Battle is concerned, Stannis is definitely superior - since he almost took King's landing despite all of Tywin's Efforts in the War. What changed the Tides, was the Tyrell's unexpected Change of Sides and the battle was very much going in Stannis' favor beforehands.

Stannis is therefore a better leader, since the OP described Battle as the Term to define this kind of Leadership.

[khalhotpie]

stannis for wartime

tywin for peace

[Sullen]

Stannis defeated The Iron Fleet whereas Tywin failed to protect the Lannister fleet, so perhaps Stannis isn't as ineffective as people think. Perhaps Tywin had more chances to prove himself (RR, WoTFK) while Stannis lived in Robert's shadow. Same as Tywin and Kevan :dunno:

Oh, I don't doubt that Stannis is better on the field of battle, that wasn't my point. With quill and paper, Tywin has him seriously outmatched.

[Frey Pentos]

I think you may be mistaken. In fact, it was the Tyrells Military and Littlefingers diplomatic Effort who brought Stannis down at the Blackwater. Tywin himself was bested by Robb Stark in Terms of Battles and even lost to Edmure Tully. Tywin did never straight up fight Stannis on his own.

And, as Leadership in Battle is concerned, Stannis is definitely superior - since he almost took King's landing despite all of Tywin's Efforts in the War. What changed the Tides, was the Tyrell's unexpected Change of Sides and the battle was very much going in Stannis' favor beforehands.

Stannis is therefore a better leader, since the OP described Battle as the Term to define this kind of Leadership.

Tywin was the man ultimately pulling all those strings. Stannis is good at doing what others tell him to do - hold Storms End, Defeat iron Fleet - left to his own tactics he rushed up the Blackwater and got his arse kicked.

[Leonardo]

I think you may be mistaken. In fact, it was the Tyrells Military and Littlefingers diplomatic Effort who brought Stannis down at the Blackwater. Tywin himself was bested by Robb Stark in Terms of Battles and even lost to Edmure Tully. Tywin did never straight up fight Stannis on his own.

And, as Leadership in Battle is concerned, Stannis is definitely superior - since he almost took King's landing despite all of Tywin's Efforts in the War. What changed the Tides, was the Tyrell's unexpected Change of Sides and the battle was very much going in Stannis' favor beforehands.

Stannis is therefore a better leader, since the OP described Battle as the Term to define this kind of Leadership.

Um more like Tyrion's lol

I doubt it took very much convincing to win over the Tyrells, who were already kind of in the shit with Stannis at the time.

Tywin was the man ultimately pulling all those strings. Stannis is good at doing what others tell him to do - hold Storms End, Defeat iron Fleet - left to his own tactics he rushed up the Blackwater and got his arse kicked.

Um wtf, Tyrion did all of that. He also brought Dorne onto their side, which is HUGE considering the Lannister enmity going on there. The Dornish were almost assuredly going to join Renly soon once he won a few victories so they could get their justice.

[SkaggCannibal]

One got his fleet destroyed by the Ironborn, the other destroyed the Ironborn fleet.