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[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

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Sometimes? Ha.

I would say it's the reverse. "Sometimes" GRRM has some logic fails or unrealistic levels of plot armour, etc. The show, when they are doing their own plotting almost always has logic fails. From this season only we have Asha's plan, Locke's plan, Sam's plan for Gilly, and Arya and the Mountain at the Vale gate, none of which make any sense whatsover. Only the rarest case do they make an improvement, such as when Jamie goes to Tywin to plead for Tyrion and he uses the situation to get what he wants, Jamie out of the KG.

Yeah they do a lot of logic fails, but really they are only evident for us book readers because we already know all the characters and their stories. Most of the unsullied won't remember the name of every character or every single detail about their lives so they prefer having a graphic scene or simplifying the plot rather than connecting everything logically. For example, a friend of mine (unsullied) couldn't remember Stannis' name and he is an important character so imagine some minor one.

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All this obsessing over Beatles. Good god, John and George are dead already! Get over it!

"I've named this one Ringo."

Edited by TheCrimsonKing

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Anybody else think it's weird that Orston (Orson?) Lannister is the name of the guy who doubled as Cleos Frey in season 2 back when Jaime owned his ass in the cage? He was kind of dumb, but not mentally handicapped.


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That was Alton Lannister not Orson "Beetle Smasher" Lannister.

Man did they these names out of the "Big Book of Random Crap?"

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I have another example of the show dumbing down the story. On the map that Jorah is looking at near :30 into the episode it completely omits Slaver's Bay, Valryia, and the west coast of Essos. It shows Meereen directly across the Narrow Sea from King's Landing. Part of the reason for Dany being stuck in Meereen is because of the vast distance back to Westeros. She doesn't have the ships to go by sea and can't risk the long march on the Demon Road. Again, are we too dumb to be able to comprehend distances or a sense of a large world?


Edited by Bushum

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So you think lying and manipulating several parties (including the king of lying) in that way to protect herself and being that convincing wasn't badass? Truly?

It was totally badass imo. I thought her performance was amazing. One of the best single performances on the show by any actress or actor. Emilia Clarke's mastery of the languages is impressive, but she never came close to this amount of raw emotion. Since this still hasn't happened in the books, I wonder if we are going to see the controversial Sansa scene before it happens in the book.

Whatever happens, Sophie Turner absolutely owned her role and I am actually more excited about Sansa's future then most other character's because of the unknown.

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i'm not sure the author of that piece has actually read the books. "Arya too has been made much darker than the book version" Can any book reader really argue that with a straight face?

Joanna Robinson has definitely read the books. I think she meant Ayra's become darker earlier, which I would say is true.

(TWOW spoiler)

Her TWOW chapter-kill with its cold, calculating dialogue was given to her this season. I'd say she's certainly darker.

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Joanna Robinson has definitely read the books. I think she meant Ayra's become darker earlier, which I would say is true.

(TWOW spoiler)

Her TWOW chapter-kill with its cold, calculating dialogue was given to her this season. I'd say she's certainly darker.

How exactly? In the books Arya was killing in cold blood as early as Harrenhall. What has show Arya done since then to make her character seem much darker?

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Could it be the relationship between Missandei and and Grey Worm is setting up a betrayal "to love" that was prophesied in the House of the Undying? Otherwise I don't know why they're spending time on this...


Edited by ThreePlateDan

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i'm not sure the author of that piece has actually read the books. "Arya too has been made much darker than the book version" Can any book reader really argue that with a straight face?

No kidding. Arya at the end of ASoS was totally broken and would never have broken out into laughter. It is ridiculous to postulate that the Arya of GoT is darker than the books. She left The Hound to the wolves rather than give him the gift of mercy. She was totally alone whereas in GoT she has latched onto The Hound and is developing a relationship. How many times does she think about having a hole where her heart should be? She has nothing but her list, a prayer for the power to give death to those she hates.

How can hysterical laughter be construed as darker than that?

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How exactly? In the books Arya was killing in cold blood as early as Harrenhall. What has show Arya done since then to make her character seem much darker?

In the TV show she has an emo haircut and people are actually afraid of her despite being 3 foot nothing with noodle arms, while in the book everybody laughs at her being a threat?

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Could it be the relationship between Missandei and and Grey Worm is setting up a betrayal "to love" that was prophesied in the House of the Undying? Otherwise I don't know why they're spending time on this...

more so setting up a backstory for the attacks on unsullied in mereen and being killed by the SoTH. Some were killed on their routine patrols,which prompted mandated "buddy patrols". When unsullied continue getting killed at night, readers find out that some visit the pleasure houses.Now show-Dany and viewers will be able to make sense of Eunuchs visiting whorehouses, since they both see a firsthand example (rather than a second hand story) about Unsullied still having sexual/romantic feelings.....that is unless they cut that part of the mereen story out.

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Tormund GiantsMANE, you make some excellent points, but still. Of course I can tend to overanalyze.

I think he has the right of it, but I agree, it's awkward and weird regardless.

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I get folks complaints about that storyline though, especially in an ep where you are literally just waiting for the last set piece and you feel like the clock is ticking. My explanation is purely based on "the other shoe dropping" and nigh time SotH murders to start popping off at some point....of course D&D could be totally trolling us and the "Big Reveal" is that the unsullied had their man parts all along and their Ken doll status was just an urban legend.


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In the TV show she has an emo haircut and people are actually afraid of her despite being 3 foot nothing with noodle arms, while in the book everybody laughs at her being a threat?

What people? Polliver when he talks about trying her out or The Hound when he laughs at her and slaps her? Rorge, when he stood in front of her so she could skewer him? The Freys who told her to fuck off?

I just don't see it.

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What people? Polliver when he talks about trying her out or The Hound when he laughs at her and slaps her? Rorge, when he stood in front of her so she could skewer him? The Freys who told her to fuck off?

I just don't see it.

It was only in season 3, they scaled it back thankfully.

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