Heresy 120

[Black Crow]

Time to put this one to bed. See you all in Heresy 121 opening in a moment.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

I will answer you and Armstark here,none of what those quotes say disprove what i'm saying and i agree with all of them to the point where i can say with 100% certainty wws do not turn into,nor do they bring the white cold/mists/fog.The White cold is what drives the Wights and it has nothing to do with the wws.We know what happens when the wws come we have two incidents. It gets cold( and this cold is constant and not so bad,because 6 wws in the prologue didn't bring the party to its knees with 6 of them it was bearable) and the wind stops.

Sam's belief before and after goes again to the ambiguity that i did'nt put in but the author and it is those i am exploring i'm sorry that i don't subscribe to group think.

"That won't help you none when the White cold comes,Gilly had spoken of the White cold as well"(Sam.asos,pg.445).

"He gives the boys to the gods.Come the White cold,he does"(ACOK,pg.370).

“The boy’s brothers,” said the old woman on the left. “Craster’s sons. The white cold’s rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don’t lie. They’ll be here soon, the sons.”

Snowflakes swirled form the dark a dark sky and ashes rose to meet them,the grey and the white whirling around each other as flaming arrows arced up a wooden wall and dead things shambled silent through the cold. Beneath a grey cliff where fires burned inside a hundred caves.Then the wind rose and the white mist came sweeping in,impossibly cold and one by one the fires went out"(ADWD,Mel,pg.408).

A man can fight the dead, but when their masters come, when the white mists rise up how do you fights a mist crow? Shadows with teeth air so cold it hurts to breath, like a knife inside your chest you do not know, you cannot know can your sword cut cold?( ADWD,Jon Chp 58).

"The wind was rising as the shadows lengthened(ASOS,Prologue,pg.11)........When the shouting died away( Oath was being said) he heard the sound of the wind picking at the ringwall.The flames shivered and swirled as if they were too cold(p.14)......Whenever he thought of her before it had only been to remember how she looked dying.What was wrong with him? He could hardly breathe.Had he gone to sleep? He had got to his knees and something wet and cold touched his nose.Chett looked up.Snow was falling (p.15). soon after the blizzard blew in with the wights.

Actually in three of those cases it's referring to the White Cold Mists coming with the "sons", the "Cold Gods", and the "masters" which is just another way to say the Others, IMO. And in the last two it's referencing the wights coming, and if you believe Sam, and Old Nan, and on and on, the wights are thralls of the Others, so it makes perfect sense that the Cold White Mists of the Others would come with them as well.

[wolfmaid7]

Actually in three of those cases it's referring to the White Cold Mists coming with the "sons", the "Cold Gods", and the "masters" which is just another way to say the Others, IMO. And in the last two it's referencing the wights coming, and if you believe Sam, and Old Nan, and on and on, the wights are thralls of the Others, so it makes perfect sense that the Cold White Mists of the Others would come with them as well.

I know its your opinion,but what the wives truly saw if they saw anything at all is also ambiguous per Gilly's response to Small Paul as "him" being the one that came for the babe based on him having the blue eyes....

Which again feeds not only the ambiguity but it also casts reasonable doubt on certain pov.For all we know they could have been seeing Wights or what was seen years and years ago could have been wights.

Craster is the one that exposes the babes,the distance from the hut to where the babes are dropped off in addition to the Mists cannot yield identification that is 100%. Gilly refers to them as the "ones in the night" i doubt that more than one of them are needs to pick up a kid.

[Eira Seren]

I would suggest that it's simpler, that the majority of the CotF are exactly as they're described. Beings of nature that will fight to defend themselves and those things they hold sacred, but who see life and death as the process of nature.

However, I would also suggest that when the Pact was made, and men started to worship the Old Gods, and started to receive the gifts of skinchanging, green-dreaming, and eventually green-sight that things began to change. As more human greenseers found their way into the weirnet, it took on more of humanity, and with it, the thirst for revenge, and the desire for conquest.

I would suggest that some of the "Old Gods" became influenced by humanity, and became obsessed with revenge. For just as Summer affects Bran with visciousness and animalistic instincts, humanity "infected" some of the Old Gods.

This is an interesting take on the COTF and the "exchange' between FM and the greenseers. I like it, with a caveat to myself not to whitewash or Romanticize the COTF as primitives, pure of these motives prior to interacting with the FM. (Though I could see how the FM or Andals might be tempted to view them as such? I mean, the FM called them children). I wonder, if now that the COTF have been through war and the Pact and all the rest, that they have learned from their collective memories, which are helping hold these tendencies in check -- in favor of peace, because they have a rather long and complex understanding of the costs.