Characters unfairly judged.

[Salafi Stannis]

The only grievance I have with Ned is that he didn't bring back the bones of those who went to the ToJ back to the North. But I don't hate Ned at all, he, like many of us, was our "guy" in book 1.

Did we ever get an explanation for that? I mean, the Ned's all about honour, he must have had some reason.

[lady jellybean]

I don't like it when people hate on Cat so much because of how she treats Jon Snow. --- I'm not saying it's nice, good, acceptable behaviour, but it's completely understandable given the context. Jon is a walking, talking symbol of betrayal by the man she loves most in the world. Are all of said Cat haters basically saying that if their long term Significant Other was to suddenly come home with a tiny baby/get pregnant and say 'oh, hi this isn't yours - I just cheated on you, but you can't really send it away or leave me' that they'd be totally ok with that? Sure it's not nice, but I dont understand how she can be on a par with Cersei, who would as soon slaughter her husband's bastards as look at them?

[lady jellybean]

Cat did say she could forgive him hundreds of bastards if they were someplace else. Iirc

Also she and ned were not in love with each other. So hes not a living reminder of a "love" betrayed.

Cat treats jon like shit cuz she fears he or his children will someday try and claim winterfell from her children. Thats why she was so happy he went to the NW.

now I can understand her fears, still doesnt stop me from thinking shes the "wicked step mother" and an all around horrible person.

But to say that a child conceived before a love tie was formed is a betrayal of that love is wrong. Betrayal of vows yes, but love no

[aje12]

Cat did say she could forgive him hundreds of bastards if they were someplace else. Iirc

Also she and ned were not in love with each other. So hes not a living reminder of a "love" betrayed.

Cat treats jon like shit cuz she fears he or his children will someday try and claim winterfell from her children. Thats why she was so happy he went to the NW.

now I can understand her fears, still doesnt stop me from thinking shes the "wicked step mother" and an all around horrible person.

But to say that a child conceived before a love tie was formed is a betrayal of that love is wrong. Betrayal of vows yes, but love no

Cat's main issues with Jon are as follows

1. Its a massive slight on her honor and the Tully family to raise a bastard amongst the trueborn children. And its for the whole world to see. Its one of the worst ways a woman can be shamed by her husband. This is even worsened when you consider a highborn woman's worth revolves around her childbearing abilities in Westeros.
2. It makes her insecure of her husbands love for her compared to this shady, un-named woman who Mr Honor loved enough to dishonor Catelyn with Jon's presence. This wouldn't have been such a problem before she fell in love with him, but once she did the green eyed monster surely would have visited.
3. It is a threat to her children's lineage. See Aegon the Unworthy.

It was not the act of sex with another woman, before they were in love, that makes Catelyn distressed. Its the fact that Jon was raised by Ned in Winterfell and treated almost the same as say Robb was.

Try and empathize with how the combination of these things would have felt to a normal emotional human being. Now consider that she wasn't evil and wicked towards him, but distanced herself from him and avoided interaction (bar that one time where she was sleep deprived, maniacal and in deep grief). Its a pretty understandable reaction if you ask me.

[EatCrow]

Too Much Love

SANDOR: I kinda like him myself, but that's only because I think his redemption arc may be somewhat genuine. But it often seems most of his fans and defenders do not want him to change. And he should change. He really should. He is not okay the way he is.

RENLY: tried to seize power on the basis of "might makes right" and therefore deserves all the hate he gets; he burns in the lowest of the Seven Hells as we speak.

TYRION: Started bad, and the elevator to Hell just keeps descending

JAIME: Unlike Sandor, he has no noticeable redemption arc at all.

ARYA: Very disturbing arc. And her wolf is eating people. Gets forgiveness points for being a kid, but still, needs to shape up.

LITTLEFINGER: All he need to is titter and twirl his moustache and all the devil-worshipers have instant orgasms about his evil genius. Of course they don't know what he's up to any more than I do. When we find out, it will probably make no sense at all.

Too Much Hate

SWEETROBIN, SANSA, LANCEL

[EatCrow]

I agree about Jaime. He hasn't really done anything to redeem himself, all he does is wine about his hand and Cersei. He sends Brienne out all alone to look for Sansa. If he really wanted to redeem himself he would have would have told Cersei to go to hell and leave with Brienne.

[Sourjapes]

Well, what is unfair? How you judge someone depends on the values you believe should be of most importance.

If you value humane treatment of civilians then you are probably going to hate Tywin Lannister. However if you feel that long term stability is more important, even if it is bought with slaughter, then you might see him more favorably. I for one am more inclined to see Tywin as a ruthless and even cruel man who knew how to build and run a nation. I find his death in the story tragic because I feel that no good came come of it at that point: with him gone the fragile stability that was starting to descend on the land will evaporate.

It is very, very easy to hate Roose Bolton or the Late Walder Frey, but then you don't have weight of a great house on your shoulders, do you? If you are a leader of a prominent faction or family and wish to rise higher then it is usually not possible to do so without getting your hands dirty. Look at the history of just about any great nation on Earth: not a one of them rose to power by being nice. They played the "game of thrones" and won, and you can't play that game with compassion and good will. It has to be done with cunning and ruthlessness. I didn't want to see the Starks fall, but I have to respect the game Roose played. From the start he was playing to win, to ensure that no matter what happened he'd walk away with more than he'd had before. House Bolton was coming out of that war for the better no matter what (well so far, anyway). Good on them. In 500 years if they win out then perhaps someone gentler will sit on their throne, someone like Ned, who can afford to be a little nicer because their power-base is secure, a base first laid down by a much more sinister predecessor.

[averde]

I guess it's because anti-heroes are held to a lower moral standard than "nice" characters. So, heroic acts for a character like the Hound get exaggerated, as do dick ups for a character like Barry.

This.