Does Melisandre Destroy Stannis's Honour?

[Olenna'sCheese]

I'm curious as to whether Mel is directly responsible for the decision Stannis made to claim the throne. Despite being a bastard born of abomination, in every legal document possible Joffrey is Robert's son, which (most likely) legally makes him Robert's direct heir and the King of Westeros. Stannis is, of course, notable for his near addiction to following the laws of gods and men. Is the fact that he chooses to oppose Joffrey down to the influence of Melisandre? I'm not sure if it was himself who decided to claim the throne or another who convinced him.

Of course, this is not the only time Stannis betrayed his king, and that was an extremely difficult decision to make, despite the King being insane and the rebel being his brother. Note that at this time we didn't have a full idea of just how mad Joff was, although Stannis might know more (cat story etc.).

I'm curious as to what really convinced him to rebel both the first and the second time.

[yolkboy]

Remember Stannis had been looking at Gendry pre-GoT.

[RockyRagnarok]

Stannis was already on the look out for Tom foolery and he came to the conclusion of Cersi's twincest long before the Lady Melisandre came to him on Dragon Stone...

As far as Stannis' s honor goes, I believe he threw out most of his morals and is on a course to become the Night's King 2.0...

[Dolorous22]

Stannins doesn't want to use Mel to win battles and he is not overly devout to the faith either. I would never describe him as honorable but I don't believe we have all that much information on him pre Mel or pre GOT. He has his brother murdered. Not a lot of honor in that however Stannis would justify it by declaring that it is his 'duty' to the realm that is more important. IMO.

[Hodor's Dragon]

Not in seeking the crown - I think he had a legitimate justification for that. In other actions, though, I'd say yes, she led him to do dishonorable things.

[The Mother of The Others]

It's a great question but one I'd direct at Stannis later on. I'd ask it of the present day Stannis. When he first took up arms against KL I believe it was all him. He refused to be ruled by Joff, not because of any whisper in his ear from a witch. He didn't need to be convinced by anyone else that the crown had just been stolen from him, and he had his own courage to deal with the situation.

But he probably had extra confidence that he could get away with defying the "king" because he had a witch standing by his side. It's that effect she has on his decision making that may be leading to his damnation. Her presence means there's always a way, that he never needs to consider coming to the table and making peace, because he ultimately doesn't fear the enemy's superior numbers, etc., since Melisandre can just whip something up to equalize the situation. So Stan's honor could be quietly eroding without him noticing because he has this powerful witch propping him up so he never stumbles and notices what he's becoming.

He could become a Lucifer type who just keeps plugging away forever out of spite long after it's stopped being about what's right or good for the realm. If continuing the fight is just going to ruin whatever remains of the civilization, at some point an honorable kingly type person would realize the horrors aren't worth his own vindication. But there's no give in Melisandre's drive to fend off the darkness with her lightshow. So she could turn him back toward more carnage after his heart starts to tell him to give up his claim? And is her continued presence guaranteed to kill him from the wasting away process she's put him through thus far? And the shadow baby victories he's purchased with that wasting away of his vigor haven't been honorable victories, either. So maybe dumping her and ending his association with cheat-to-win victories would help to salvage his honor too? Mostly, I like the witch too much to ask her to leave, so I've forgiven Stannis for feeling the same. But it might be that he's supposed to re-akaken his own independent self and divorce Melisandre in order to get healthy again and "deserve" the crown. That might be his test.

Edit: or is the lesson that he's the one with no ability to bend, while Melisandre is the less damned one? She, for example, had to go behind Stannis' back to do the correct thing for the north tactically by saving Mance when Stannis lacked the mercy to make the best move?

[Salafi Stannis]

No, his honour is indestructible.

[Guard of the Rainking]

No, but she destroys his understanding of women.

[Two and a Halfhand]

Yes,i think she is destroying some aspects of his honor,but that doesnt mean its all bad.Many hinorable characters like Robb and Ned were rewarded in the worst way possible because they puted honor,kindness and love above reason.Stannis today is between the pragmatic and ruthless ways of Melissandre and honor,justice and altruist wyas of Davos,which is constantly trying to remind him of the man he used to be.As awesome as Pre-Mel Stannis was,we have to admit that he and Davos wouldve been crushed by Renly's troops if hasn't for Mel "dirty" tricks so as the man itself likes to say "Hard truths cut both ways"

[kimim]

I don't think Stannis is overly concerned with "honor," whatever that means. The guy assassinates Renly and Penrose. A more honorable man like Loras would have forced a battle and caused the deaths of hundreds in order to kill his foe honorably. Stannis' decision is less honorable and way less destructive. I think Stannis is a realist. Mel is powerful, so he takes advantage of what Mel can do for him, while realizing that his sword is "magic" in the crudest sense possible. Using Mel means he needs to appease R'hllor worshipers, so he burns four cannibals at the stake. I think that realism is also a part of his thing with Davos. Davos likes Stannis (Stannis wants to be liked) and Davos is wise, so Stannis overlooks low birth, etc., and makes Davos his Hand.

[Salafi Stannis]

Stannis wants to be liked

Lol at this