RezBarbie24 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I only have aDWD on audiobook so they must have flown over my head cuz I never noticed them... Could you guys give me a few examples? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.P. Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Huh? He doesn't have any blackouts, as far as I remember..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 In The Turncloak, the George details Theon's walk away from Rowan and out of keep through the ruined castle and up to thevtop of inner wall. We get some more musing, and then whammo, he's in the godswood standing before the heart tree wondering why the heck he was there. Of course, he standing amidst tendrils of mist hanging in the air like ghostly ribbons... Then he asks forgiveness and hears an echo of Bran's sorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezBarbie24 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yeah I heard there's a theory that during the blackouts that THAT is when someone is murdering men... I thought it was Able/Mance... but as I said I only have the audiobook which makes it a whole lot easier to miss things and harder to study since I only listen while cleaning, gardening, driving ect.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezBarbie24 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 I had also seen one in one of the Wow I never noticed that threads where Theon jumps from dawn straight to midday after lunch in just a few sentences....Not sure if it was written on purpose or if it happens a lot in his aDWD chapters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yeah I heard there's a theory that during the blackouts that THAT is when someone is murdering men... I thought it was Able/Mance... but as I said I only have the audiobook which makes it a whole lot easier to miss things and harder to study since I only listen while cleaning, gardening, driving ect....The Mance's spear wives killed the victims in Winterfell, all except Little Walder--he was killed by Big Walder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I like the idea that Theon killed Little Walder in a blackout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezBarbie24 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Here's that passage I was talking about... I found it online though not in the Wow I never noticed that thread...“As the garrison BROKE IT'S FAST on stale bread fried in bacon grease (the lords and knights ate the bacon), the talk along the benches was of little but the corpse.“Stannis has friends inside the castle.” Theon heard one serjeant mutter. He was an old Tallhart man, three trees sewn on his ragged surcoat. THE WATCH HAD JUST CHANGED. Men were coming in from the cold, stomping their feet to knock the snow off their boots and breeches as the MIDDAY meal was served-blood sausage, leeks, and brown bread still warm from the oven.- A ghost in Winterfell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Here's that passage I was talking about... I found it online though not in the Wow I never noticed that thread...“As the garrison BROKE IT'S FAST on stale bread fried in bacon grease (the lords and knights ate the bacon), the talk along the benches was of little but the corpse.“Stannis has friends inside the castle.” Theon heard one serjeant mutter. He was an old Tallhart man, three trees sewn on his ragged surcoat. THE WATCH HAD JUST CHANGED. Men were coming in from the cold, stomping their feet to knock the snow off their boots and breeches as the MIDDAY meal was served-blood sausage, leeks, and brown bread still warm from the oven.- The ghost in Winterfell I know this one has been used before. While it's possible that it points to Theon blacking out, there are a couple of alternative explanations. 1. Time has actually elapsed in between paragraphs. The "garrison broke its fast" line describes how the day started (everyone talking about the corpse) and the Tallhart man is really speaking later in the day. Theon hasn't blacked out, it's just time passing. If this is the case then yeah I think he could have denoted it better. 2. The watch is on different shifts. So it could be that breakfast for one section of the watch is actually lunch for another. 3. It's an editing mistake. Time elements, in my experience, are some of the easiest things to overlook or cross. I think that if GRRM wanted to actually convey Theon having blackouts, he'd be a little less subtle than that. Maybe not, that's just my impression. Yeah I heard there's a theory that during the blackouts that THAT is when someone is murdering men... I thought it was Able/Mance... but as I said I only have the audiobook which makes it a whole lot easier to miss things and harder to study since I only listen while cleaning, gardening, driving ect.... It's not Mance killing anyone. The spearwives had been killing the men and I think the evidence strongly suggests that Big Walder killed Little Walder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezBarbie24 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Man I just wish I had the hardback copy... I've listened to aDWD TWICE now (it's 48 HOURS long omg lol) and it just isn't the same as reading and going over details at my own pace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezBarbie24 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Well I just found this link online... Wondering what we here on this forum think about it... http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/10fll7/spoilers_all_two_reeks_and_the_ghost_in_winterfell/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The Mance's spear wives killed the victims in Winterfell, all except Little Walder--he was killed by Big Walder.That's not confirmed though (about Big Walder, I mean). I think the presence of the hooded man and the fact that Theon doesn't remember if four or five swords were missing from the crypts could point to someone else killing Little Walder. Also, there's a very relevant cut in the chapter that ends with the spearwives taking Theon to Mance. Who knows how much Theon told him, and vice versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 That's not confirmed though (about Big Walder, I mean). I think the presence of the hooded man and the fact that Theon doesn't remember if four or five swords were missing from the crypts could point to someone else killing Little Walder.Also, there's a very relevant cut in the chapter that ends with the spearwives taking Theon to Mance. Who knows how much Theon told him, and vice versa I doubt Little Walder's killer is ever explicitly identified. I do think, slam dunk, it was Big Walder, but there'll be no "Perry Mason" moment where the kid buckles and stands up and admits he did it. No, it's not confirmed, but some stuff is just left for people to figure out for themselves and I think this is one of those things. As for the "cut in the chapter," GRRM uses that technique in other places too, doesn't he? Jon and Tormund have a two-hour conversation about which we know nothing (yet). Does that "missing" time mean Jon blacked out? Or is it a case where GRRM doesn't yet want us to know what was talked about, so the conversation is withheld? That could actually point to Mance being the Pink Letter author: the stuff Theon tells him is the intel he would have needed to draft the letter, but if we knew already what they had talked about, Mance being the letter-writer would have been given away. So, it's withheld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I doubt Little Walder's killer is ever explicitly identified. I do think, slam dunk, it was Big Walder, but there'll be no "Perry Mason" moment where the kid buckles and stands up and admits he did it. No, it's not confirmed, but some stuff is just left for people to figure out for themselves and I think this is one of those things. As for the "cut in the chapter," GRRM uses that technique in other places too, doesn't he? Jon and Tormund have a two-hour conversation about which we know nothing (yet). Does that "missing" time mean Jon blacked out? Or is it a case where GRRM doesn't yet want us to know what was talked about, so the conversation is withheld? That could actually point to Mance being the Pink Letter author: the stuff Theon tells him is the intel he would have needed to draft the letter, but if we knew already what they had talked about, Mance being the letter-writer would have been given away. So, it's withheld.I know, I never said the Theon-Mance conversation was a blackout, more like a cut. Like you said, pretty similar to the Jon-Tormund convoAs to Little Walder, I do expect a sort of "aha!" moment, as I think Big Walder being the killer would be a very weak resolution, but agree to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 As to Little Walder, I do expect a sort of "aha!" moment, as I think Big Walder being the killer would be a very weak resolution, but agree to disagree Yes see I think that by the time that would happen everyone will have moved on and anyone who would have given a shit who killed him (namely the Freys) will be dead. Same sort of reason I don't think the hooded man will ever be identified (if he's even a real person). Is someone going to stand up in the middle of the Battle of Winterfell and announce that he was the hooded man Theon saw? I think the Big Walder/Little Walder dynamic is interesting. Little Walder is the more sociopathic of the two, yet it's Big Walder who gets away with murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yes see I think that by the time that would happen everyone will have moved on and anyone who would have given a shit who killed him (namely the Freys) will be dead. Same sort of reason I don't think the hooded man will ever be identified (if he's even a real person). Is someone going to stand up in the middle of the Battle of Winterfell and announce that he was the hooded man Theon saw? I think the Big Walder/Little Walder dynamic is interesting. Little Walder is the more sociopathic of the two, yet it's Big Walder who gets away with murder.You could've said the same about Jon Arryn's killer or the person who tried to kill Bran, but we still got straight answers for those questions. I think the hooded man is more likely to remain ambiguous than Little Walder's killer, though, my gut tells me, but who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 You could've said the same about Jon Arryn's killer or the person who tried to kill Bran, but we still got straight answers for those questions. I think the hooded man is more likely to remain ambiguous than Little Walder's killer, though, my gut tells me, but who knows Both of those were still relevant to the story at hand, though. It's huge that Sansa knows that Baelish and Lysa played a role in killing Arryn, while even though Joffrey is dead, the solution is still notable because it means Jaime, Cersei and/or Tyrion didn't do it. Both of those things were also pretty enormous events in the series in terms of moving the action; I just don't think the death of a fourth-tier Frey kid is really in the same league. *shrugs* ETA: Put it this way, I don't think we'll ever know for sure who killed Little Walder. But if we do, then it'll just be confirmation that it was, in fact, Big Walder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezBarbie24 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yes see I think that by the time that would happen everyone will have moved on and anyone who would have given a shit who killed him (namely the Freys) will be dead. Same sort of reason I don't think the hooded man will ever be identified (if he's even a real person). Is someone going to stand up in the middle of the Battle of Winterfell and announce that he was the hooded man Theon saw?Who's to say for sure? No one can say they know exactly what's to come next... That said I thought you guys were gonna agree to disagree... So I see no need for swearing & sarcasm when Jonofevildead tried to call a truce...Please don't take this personally Martini because I honestly value your response/thoughts to my question here... And I was glad people didn't automatically put me down for having this question as I've seen far too often on this forum... People can debate a topic without being harsh and making it personal...Eta: wrong Jon whoops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Who's to say for sure? No one can say they know exactly what's to come next...That said I thought you guys were gonna agree to disagree... So I see no need for swearing & sarcasm when Jonofevildead tried to call a truce...Please don't take this personally Martini because I honestly value your response/thoughts to my question here...And I was glad people didn't automatically put me down for having this question as I've seen far too often on this forum... People can debate a topic without being harsh and making it personal...Eta: wrong Jon whoops The only one taking it personally is you. I'm just discussing it, and yes, I swear. Call the fuzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezBarbie24 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 The only one taking it personally is you. I'm just discussing it, and yes, I swear. Call the fuzz.Case and point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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