The Blood Betrayal

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Before Mance and friends arrived at Winterfell, there was something mentioned about a missing sword from the crypts. This is a sword with some significance, or else why make mention of it?

I've wondered about a deeper connection between The Starks and The Others. It spins around certain phrases connected to The Starks and The North. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell - The North Remembers - Winter Is Coming. It's not lifting the house above all others to have so many tales of The North with so many Starks in them. There is real significance in House Stark beyond words, beyond tales, beyond myths.

Some people, clearly not knowing Northern English words, say that Winterfell is the place where Winter Fell. Wrong! I live in the North of English, in Lancashiire. Where I live is close to a place called Winter Hill. It could easily have been called Winter Fell. Fell is an olde Englishe worde for hill.

Other uses of the word 'fell' include fell-walking and fell-racing. Fell-walking was once a very popular pastime to take northern folk out of the towns and cities of industry. Basically, find some open space, with hills, and set off on foot. Fell-racing is a form of cross-country running that straddle several peaks or hills. What you'll see will remind you of Westeros.

Back to the plot..... Winterfell will hold some relevance we have yet to discover. All that's known is Brandon The Builder erected it a short time after completing The Wall. That could mean there was more than one Brandon The Builder, because The Wall is an almighty piece of construction work. To add Winterfell on to that.... Perhaps sons of the original continued the work started.

My thinking takes me along the lines of this was the place where the final peace pact was signed. It's also close to another significant site, which adds to the myth I'm suggesting. I don't think there was a clear winner at the conclusion of the last Long Night. In fact, who really wins at the close of any war? All sides suffer heavy losses, such is the nature of the beast. Enough can be enough.

What could also happen is oaths are made over the signing of peace treaties. There could be symbols exchanged, like swords handed over by both sides, or, perhaps, a weapon of great significance.

I know I keep repeating that word but it's not done for the sake of repetition. Significance of certain facts and symbols, and words, can be lost over the expanse of time.

The re-emergence of The Others sounds ominous. But, is it? On this, I am still wondering. It must have, excuse me, significance. Maybe they were able to foresee events than we've seen unfold.

I think those missing swords are just a reference to the ones that Bran and Co took.

If we he go back to my Brandon of the Bloody Blade is Brandon the Builder theory, and sacrificed giants and Children to create the Wall, before founding house Stark, then that explains the Walls magic too. The same magic which stops them entering the Cildrens grotto, is likely Children's blood. There are skulls of dead children everywhere there.

Interesting what you say about Winterfell, but George didn't from Northern England, so I'm not to sure about that. He doesn't use Olde English,

I definitely think that the Nights King was a Stark, so there is more connection there.

Origin of her hy White Walkers, who can ever know? Vengeful children or necromatic First Men?

[UtherSnow]

Ghost grass is pinkish white and bioluminescent if I remember correctly. Not frost affected at all, and certainly not in more volcanic region. The Dothraki clearly have origins in this area, since they don't cross the Bone Mountsins, unless this plant thrives in darkness (Asshai by the Shdow is where it grows) and it expanded to the Dothraki Sea during that time. Not impossible.

I was trying to give a natural angle to this. However, what I missed before is, could ghost grass be something like a condition affecting plant-life, like a blight? Different ones are recorded in history, destroying crops and causing more problems because of the lack of food. Darkness is always mentioned - dark times, dark days.... Dark = shadows.... Symbolism! Don't you just love it!

[UtherSnow]

Interesting what you say about Winterfell, but George didn't from Northern England, so I'm not to sure about that. He doesn't use Olde English,

When George went to visit Hadrian's Wall, where was he? Just a few hours easy drive from my location, you are at the western end of Hadrian's Wall. That's Northern England, and full of history, as is Scotland, over the border. If there is one thing George loves, history is it, with all its twists and turns. George would know of the term. He did his research of historical events for things that became events like Red Wedding. Geography becomes part of that research, almost by default.

There is a lot of Northern English influence with the books. Those accents on the show are not accidental. Sean Bean does talk like he did on the show. (He's from Sheffield, like Joe Cocker, Def Leppard and Human League.) Mark Addy was born in York, to the north of Sheffield. I'd not put it beyond Lena Headey to drop a Tyke accent (Tyke = Yorkshire). Her family have origins in Yorkshire. Yes, you'll hear words spoken that appear on the show, plus many more as well. All those curses..... George did a lot of work picking up those, for the books. There's plenty more where they came from!

I suggest looking at artists' impressions of Winterfell. It's archetypical of many castles and fortifications, across Europe. It has one of the most commanding positions you'll see.

It may be worthwhile googling Winter Hill, near Bolton, Lancashire. I can picture a large, sprawling castle up there very easily. Also, the view up there is truly amazing! Trust me on that.

[Durran Durrandon]

Nice work.

Isn't Pennytree described as a royal fief for the last hundred years, meaning it would have reverted to the crown a hundred years ago. I guess it could just be rounding up, if it reverted to the crown, say, 70 years ago?

That's my take .

[Ramsay's Penguins]

When George went to visit Hadrian's Wall, where was he? Just a few hours easy drive from my location, you are at the western end of Hadrian's Wall. That's Northern England, and full of history, as is Scotland, over the border. If there is one thing George loves, history is it, with all its twists and turns. George would know of the term. He did his research of historical events for things that became events like Red Wedding. Geography becomes part of that research, almost by default.

There is a lot of Northern English influence with the books. Those accents on the show are not accidental. Sean Bean does talk like he did on the show. (He's from Sheffield, like Joe Cocker, Def Leppard and Human League.) Mark Addy was born in York, to the north of Sheffield. I'd not put it beyond Lena Headey to drop a Tyke accent (Tyke = Yorkshire). Her family have origins in Yorkshire. Yes, you'll hear words spoken that appear on the show, plus many more as well. All those curses..... George did a lot of work picking up those, for the books. There's plenty more where they came from!

I suggest looking at artists' impressions of Winterfell. It's archetypical of many castles and fortifications, across Europe. It has one of the most commanding positions you'll see.

It may be worthwhile googling Winter Hill, near Bolton, Lancashire. I can picture a large, sprawling castle up there very easily. Also, the view up there is truly amazing! Trust me on that.

Yes good point. I'd forgotten he visited that place. Winter Hill near Bolton? That can't be good.

I was trying to give a natural angle to this. However, what I missed before is, could ghost grass be something like a condition affecting plant-life, like a blight? Different ones are recorded in history, destroying crops and causing more problems because of the lack of food. Darkness is always mentioned - dark times, dark days.... Dark = shadows.... Symbolism! Don't you just love it!

I love symbolism. I don't think so, blight kills plants, especially grasses and this stuff just keeps growing and growing. If it was blight them I'd say it'd be dead, unless it petrified the grass, which doesn't seem to have occurred.

[LmL]

Ramsay's penguins, your Brandon the Bloody. Blade was the Builder theory has a lot of merit. Interesting that Rose of Red Lake, the founder of house crane and a skinchanger offspring of Garth the Green, lives at Red Lake, where Brandon made his "sacrifices" of children and giants, turning blue lake into red lake. I think the warg / crane detail is made to get us to think about the north in regards to the Bloody Blade.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Ramsay's penguins, your Brandon the Bloody. Blade was the Builder theory has a lot of merit. Interesting that Rose of Red Lake, the founder of house crane and a skinchanger offspring of Garth the Green, lives at Red Lake, where Brandon made his "sacrifices" of children and giants, turning blue lake into red lake. I think the warg / crane detail is made to get us to think about the north in regards to the Bloody Blade.

Thank you!

Im not good at bringing stuff together but I do feel there is something there. Maybe sacrifice to Long Lake so he can freeze the entire thing and source ice from their, instead of the Red Lake?

I'll think on it,

[Durran Durrandon]

Changing blue to red is pretty potent symbolism.