Lord of Moat Cailin Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 When Aegon Landed houses Valeryon and Celtigar, which had come from Valaryia with the Targaryens, were with him. Orys Baratheon, also with Aegon when he landed, was made Lord Paramount of the Storm Lands, but Valeryon and Celtigar, even though they had great influence with the Targs, only kept their islands. Why were Valeryons and Celtigars never made LPs like Baratheons were.Related note, if the Baratheons are of Valaryion origin why don't they look like other Valaryians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 They were given seats on the small council, potentially more influence and power than even the former king/LPs at the royal court. Aegon followed a policy that gave an incentive for kings to surrender: surrender and you keep your lands and dominion over your territory, defy me and burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Moat Cailin Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 They were given seats on the small council, potentially more influence and power than even the former king/LPs at the royal court. Aegon followed a policy that gave an incentive for kings to surrender: surrender and you keep your lands and dominion over your territory, defy me and burn. But the Tullys, Greyjoys and Tyrells were not King's before, couldn't they have gotten some lf those regions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in The Mount Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Related note, if the Baratheons are of Valaryion origin why don't they look like other Valaryians Orys Baratheon married the daughter of the storm lord. I don't remember Orys' description, but if the Durrandon seed was strong (like Robert's) and the Targaryen/Valiryan one weak (that's why they loved incest so much), then it's possible that all Baratheons after Orys looked like Durrandons.(If Orys didn't look like a Targaryen, it would be for the same strong vs weak seed reason: He looks like his mother instead of Aegon's father) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolomonBlack Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 There's being a sworn bannerman and then there's being Aegon's BFF, strong right Hand, and probably bastard brother. Other then his sisters there is no one more readily important in Aegon I's life. As for why he doesn't have Valyrian features he was no more then half-Valyrian which doesn't breed that strongly anyways and his picture looks rather Robert-ish. Presumably whomever Mama Baratheon was she was a strong lusty wench of dark hair and that set the pattern. House Baratheon is born of Orys and Argella Durrandon daughter of the last Storm King who should be of First/Andal mix like the whole of the Southron kingdoms. So even if the art in the Worldbook is not accurate the intervening 300 years takes care of that. Remember the present generation is 1/4 Targaryen and none of the three had silver hair, nor do the Martells who are also all Targaryen descents more distantly. While say Baelor Breakspear favored his Martell mother though in the other direction Egg had the Valyrian features with a Martell grandmother and Dayne mother. Back to Orys and Argella though, that marriage is also why nobody else got promoted to Lord Paramount from Aegon's retainers. The Riverlands were a conquered kingdom with no native kings, the Reach just had its royals extinguished and well probably too many potential claims, and the Iron Islands are a whole other barrel of squid. There wasn't (or wasn't recorded) any eligible surviving daughter like Argella to really sell a claim with marriage as a dynastic shift not wholesale foreign takeover, especially since reading between the lines that marriage might have been a love match too. So it very probably wasn't politically expedient given how much native blood ties matter in Westeros. Actually Tully and Tyrell might have been chosen precisely because they were acceptably native and distinguished but not strong enough claims to restore any kingdoms. And who's to say Celtigar and Velaryon had eligible unmarried scions either? And while the Celtigars I don't recall the Velaryon's are almost better described as a cadet branch of Targaryen. Lots of intermarriage, dragonriders, nigh hereditary Master of Ships, and Corlys Velaryon was so wealthy he out crapped the Lions. So their minor house is more recent back in the day they were indeed major players. Celtigar is probably the victim of not being blood of the dragon, though I expect they had more then just the first Master of Coin to their name. I'd blame the Dance of the Dragons for both falling from any favor I think. Just in general you don't give too many of your loyal servants a major powerbase if you want any loyal servants left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thaeglei of Frostpyre Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 For Aegon to maintain his control of the other regions he just conquered, he needs lord paramounts who holds significant influence on their regions.. The Starks, Lannisters and Arryns were all former Royal houses and the have kept their subjects love and support.. The Baratheons married into the Durrandons thus becoming the heir bodies to the Storm Kings.. The Tullys and Greyjoys have always been among the greatest lords of their respected regions.. The Tyrells, well they had Aegon's support.. The Velaryons and Celtigars were not created Lord Paramounts because they don't have the history and support of any major region in the continent.. Plus, they actually don't need it since they have close relations to the Royal house, particularly the Velaryons.. Plus the Velaryons control the trade in Blackwater Bay plus their towns were once greater in commerce than King's Landing itself.. The Velaryons became the wealthiest house in the Seven Kingdoms, with naval power comparable to a very few.. They have am almost hereditary seat in the small council, fame, prestige and Royal favor.. That is being better in my book than being Lord paramount of a small, poor region.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Joe the Unknighted Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 If Laenor Valaryon had actually had any actual children with Rhaenyra Targaryen instead of her Valaryon children being Strong bastards in all likelihood and Aegon II wouldn't have usurped his half sister's place (I know a lot of what-ifs) then the King following Rhaenyra would have been King Jaecerys Velaryon I. The Velaryon's were that close to becoming the royal house of Westeros. Instead all three of Rhaenyra's Valaryon children were likely bastard sons of Ser Harwin Strong and Laenor was probably not interested in Rhaenyra (or any woman). House Valaryon would only continue through the bastard son of Lord Corlys Valaryon (The Sea Snake) Alyn "of Hull" Valaryon (formerly Waters) who was a great man who married his cousin/niece and daughter of Daemon Targaryen (Queen Rhaenyra's Prince consort) and Laena Valaryon and a famous admiral and explorer but House Valaryon never really recovered from the Dance of Dragons and the early deaths of Laenor Valaryon and his sister Laena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Just in general you don't give too many of your loyal servants a major powerbase if you want any loyal servants left. This is probably the main reason, I think. Not to mention that the other houses of Valyrian descent would probably be in on a number of House Targaryen's dirty little secrets - whose perceived status as above and beyond other men was just being established in those days. It's also a very decent point that they were far more important in those days than their present rather-minor-house status would suggest. But then there were a number of civil wars, and finally Robert's Rebellion, any one of which would be enough to put anyone out of favor, with a long period of rebuilding required. Particularly as those houses are not exactly deeply entrenched - House Frey pre-dates them by a few centuries, and yet they're still seen as upstarts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 But the Tullys, Greyjoys and Tyrells were not King's before, couldn't they have gotten some lf those regions The riverlords had been trying to gain independence since the Storm King took over, and naming one of their own as their overlord was a smart move given their history. Trying to place a Celtigar or Velaryon as LP over the Iron Isles is a fool's errand. Aegon knew that, and was smart to let them honor their tradition and hold a kingsmoot. The Tyrells bent the knee, and surrendered HG. They have Gardener blood, and again, Reach men are ruling Reach men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Joe the Unknighted Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Valaryons were a sea power. They would have had no interest in moving inland to the Riverlands so far from their lands. Baratheon was closer to Aegon and also had no lands of his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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