Kaibaman Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Maybe Bloodraven wants to die and the only way he can do that is by getting somebody else to take his place. Maybe like in that show Once Upon a Time, the previous Dark One Zoso felt his life had become a burden. So he planned his own demise by manipulating Rumpelstiltskin, a man who was desperate and power hungry to kill him and take his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowShark Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I'm stoked that this post has been reanimated because I missed it first time around. We have all these possible wargs and skinchangers lurking about the place but are given so little information about the process. I'm on board with the idea that warging/skinchanging is connected with the physical body (the blood in that original body?) and that it could be possible for a skinchanging spirit to go from body to body if the body has the requisite ability. I'm a little less convinced by the allegation that BR has called Bran to him in order to skinchange into Bran and use him as an escape pod- but as I don't have an alternative explanation as to BR's motives and something of a mild hostility towards the idea of the "it was all BR", I'd be happy to see if this is where this storyline goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebourget Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 BR needsto warg a warg to escape his cave, so he picks a cripple and drags him all the way to said cave he can't escape in the middle of nowhere? Crackpot is crackpot. Also why assume that the children warded the cave to keep him trapped and then stay there with him, apparently aiding him... And he's a warg so it doesn't matter that you physically trapped him. And how often are we told about wards which are made to keep out others? Every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodraven's Bastard Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Bloodraven is portrayed as the ultimate utilitarian, willing to sacrifice everything for the greater good, including his honor and himself. And now, 75-100 years later he is hell bent on leaving his influential post in the weirnet? For selfish reasons? Killing the most powerful and potentially enormously useful warg in the process? Pretty stupid theory, isn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 BR needsto warg a warg to escape his cave, so he picks a cripple and drags him all the way to said cave he can't escape in the middle of nowhere? Crackpot is crackpot. Also why assume that the children warded the cave to keep him trapped and then stay there with him, apparently aiding him... And he's a warg so it doesn't matter that you physically trapped him. And how often are we told about wards which are made to keep out others? Every time. But BR can opt for a 2nd life in a crippled warg in the middle of nowhere, and remain in the cave. Bran being so young, that would mean another + 100 years of life and power to the tree. Or he can opt for a 2nd life in a strong body of a simpleton who's mind has already been made use to surrender to a skinchanger, and walk out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodraven's Bastard Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 But BR can opt for a 2nd life in a crippled warg in the middle of nowhere, and remain in the cave. Bran being so young, that would mean another + 100 years of life and power to the tree. Or he can opt for a 2nd life in a strong body of a simpleton who's mind has already been made use to surrender to a skinchanger, and walk out. Bloodraven has been around for a while,. His concern is for the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Bloodraven has been around for a while,. His concern is for the realm. Yup, and in that concern he may consider it worthwhile to do either the 1st or the 2nd. I think the 1st could only happen, while Bran's skinchanging Hodor. So, then you'd have BR in Bran's crippled body and Bran stuck in Hodor. But he'd have the legs to leave the cave or go someplace through the cavetunnels, and the strength and adult body to become a knight. He won't get to be Bran anymore to the outside world anymore though - I mean inheritance wise. If BR does the 2nd, he'd leave a novice greenseer behind, but BR doesn't need to learn to fight either. He'd make Hodor instantly a good warrior. I truly don't see Bran crawling through a cave system all the way south of the wall again. Being wedded to the tree, having a wierwood throne built for him, and crippled, while the Others and wights only get more numerous. Meanwhile you have Hodor and Meera (and a tiny chance of perhaps Jojen) basically doing nada at the cave and serving little to no purpose anymore. Option 1 seems like a good, unexpected twist, and actually something Bran might not even regret at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodraven's Bastard Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yup, and in that concern he may consider it worthwhile to do either the 1st or the 2nd. I think the 1st could only happen, while Bran's skinchanging Hodor. So, then you'd have BR in Bran's crippled body and Bran stuck in Hodor. But he'd have the legs to leave the cave or go someplace through the cavetunnels, and the strength and adult body to become a knight. He won't get to be Bran anymore to the outside world anymore though - I mean inheritance wise. If BR does the 2nd, he'd leave a novice greenseer behind, but BR doesn't need to learn to fight either. He'd make Hodor instantly a good warrior. I truly don't see Bran crawling through a cave system all the way south of the wall again. Being wedded to the tree, having a wierwood throne built for him, and crippled, while the Others and wights only get more numerous. Meanwhile you have Hodor and Meera (and a tiny chance of perhaps Jojen) basically doing nada at the cave and serving little to no purpose anymore. Option 1 seems like a good, unexpected twist, and actually something Bran might not even regret at all. Bran doesn't have a choice. He's crippled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Bran doesn't have a choice. He's crippled. He can have the mental choice to be in Hodor. And Hodor doesn't have the mental choice or ability to fight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tongue Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I guess I see what your saying. To me, it would have been a waste to give us the Varamyr chapter if the info we got about warging in it wasn't correct. I think that was more of a set up for Jon's story. Not sure if this is where Bran's quest is going, but I do get a little apprehensive on his part. I know how much mythology GRRM likes to pepper into the story and couldn't help but think of Hercules and Atlas. Part of me feels that Bran is a bit doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodraven's Bastard Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 He can have the mental choice to be in Hodor. And Hodor doesn't have the mental choice or ability to fight it. I had a cheeseburger for dinner last night. The cow whose meat was harvested for my meal had no choice neither... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Al Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I've always thought that Varamyrs unsuccessful attempt to warg a human was shown as a counterpoint to the relative ease with which Bran wargs Hodor, showing how powerful Bran really is. I also think that Bran will leave the cave as Bran as his journey won't end at BR'S cave as he will have to make his way to the Heart of Winter, the hub of Weirwoodnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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