The Richard Morgan Thread

[Kabada]

Science fiction is mostly dead. Apart from one, possibly two-three living writers, it's all fantasy in drag. Sometimes well executed fantasy, to be sure, better than the most anything being pushed in the official hot-chick-in-chainmail aisle. But fantasy nonetheless.

Exactly the same can be said for fantasy, horror, network television and pretty much anything else you'd care to mention. It's just not true. The only reason why you'd feel sf is stale is bacause you choose to read stale sf. There's plenty of exciting new stuff around now, imho actually exactly as plenty as there was 10 years ago or 40 years ago.

People change and so do their tastes. Sometimes that leads to a mismatch between the currently predominant style in a genre and the particular tastes of a reader. MY conclusion would be that most of the time, actually pretty much always, the reader is at fault and not the genre.

@Sex in Morgan's novels:

I like me my explicit, full-on steamy sex scenes very much, thank you. They feel VERY much in place within Morgan's books and any skirting around them (and then describing every last and gory detail of the headshot one page later) would feel just... douchebaggy.

Although I could do with a little more boy-on-boy action.

[Amras]

I really like the cover actually. Is The Steel Remains a standalone? He seems to make no mention of sequels.

As for his description of the book, it reminds me of Abercrombie more than anything.

He says it's supposed to be a trilogy on his blog, though that might've changed since he posted that particular entry.

I agree with you regarding the Abercrombie-comparison. But that's a good thing

[Werthead]

I get the impression that Gollancz are very pleased with the book and will be doing a big marketing push for it as, to a large audience who refuses to touch SF with a bargepole, this will be effectively Morgan's debut novel.

Morgan also says on his blog that there will be at least one sequel to Black Man, or at least another book set in the same universe. He also has words to say to everyone who thinks it's a rehash of Altered Carbon or is pissed off because it isn't Altered Carbon Part 15.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

Science fiction is mostly dead. Apart from one, possibly two-three living writers, it's all fantasy in drag. Sometimes well executed fantasy, to be sure, better than the most anything being pushed in the official hot-chick-in-chainmail aisle. But fantasy nonetheless.

Nah. Science fiction and fantasy has always been more or less the same form of literature. What you are describing is actually science fiction at it's top form.

[Arthmail]

Well i tried my hand at Asimov. I tried my hand at Ian M. Banks, and that Alastair Reynolds fellow, and i was underwhelmed for both. A great deal of noise, but not alot going on, at least in my opinion. I'll simply never enjoy hard science with a side dish of story.

Though there is some good science in Morgan's books (swapping bodies is relevant, considering what i have read of Ray Kurzwel), there is more story than science. It is still a novle, not necessarily a full on science paper.

[Doran Doran]

It's just not true. The only reason why you'd feel sf is stale is bacause you choose to read stale sf. There's plenty of exciting new stuff around now, imho actually exactly as plenty as there was 10 years ago or 40 years ago.

For readers who read SF almost exclusively for the moments of sensawunda, or the moments of stretching their minds over breathtaking new ideas, the last decades have been poor fare indeed. You'll notice nobody ever demands their mind be similarly stretched by fantasy.

Of course, I might be wrong and there's actually plenty of what you would describe as non-stale SF out there. If so, you could do me a favor by listing it - I suspect, however, that things you consider fresh are simply things that are well executed in ways that has no bearing on the central value promise of SF - like, say Altered Carbon et consortes - or else the perceived freshness is just an artifact of not being well-read enough in the SF field.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

Doran, isn't is possible that you're just getting old? I have a harder time today to find sf with really engaging ideas than I did in my teens, but I very much doubt that it's the fault of the genre.

I don't think you have to look all that hard to find current sf with strong ideas. Looking over my book log from the last couple of years I find several titles that would fit that description: Karl Schroeder's Sun of Suns, Robert Charles Wilson's Spin and Charles Stross's Accelerando are a few. Now mind you that I would describe all of these books as more or less flawed, but I still think they deliver intriguing ideas and some classical sense of wonder.

[Thrashalla]

You'll notice nobody ever demands their mind be similarly stretched by fantasy.

Maybe not in the same way as SF readers, but there's plenty of us that read fantasy (almost) exclusively that expect more than the "THAR BE DRAGINS!!1!!" drooling masses you seem to be eluding to. If I'm missing your point entirely, please forgive me and go a little further in depth into the type of mind expansion you're referring to. (I'm genuinely curious, not being sarcastic or argumentative)

As for the topic at hand, I read the description for The Steel Remains on Pat's blog and thought it sounded good, so I looked into Richard Morgans other books and plan on buying Altered Carbon in the near future; so there is one good thing about him doing some genre hopping - attracting possible new readers to SF.

[Altherion]

Morgan also says on his blog that there will be at least one sequel to Black Man, or at least another book set in the same universe.

I hope he leaves the Schroedinger's Cat ending alone though.

[Doran Doran]

Doran, isn't is possible that you're just getting old? I have a harder time today to find sf with really engaging ideas than I did in my teens, but I very much doubt that it's the fault of the genre.

It's been know to happen - getting old, I mean.

It's been said that the golden age of SF is 13, which, while perhaps unkind holds more than a nugget of truth in it. Not because real SF (as opposed to dreck like Star Trek/Star Wars and the like) doesn't have anything to offer to older readers, but because that's the age when anybody reasonably intelligent will start wondering about the nature of reality and all the SFnal conjectures on the subject come to you fresh. Recapturing that in your 30s, when you are both more jaded and more knowledgeable is a tall order on the part of a writer, to be sure.

Still, it ain't all a matter of perspective. Serious SF has gotten progressively more difficult to write as we learn that most of the exciting props - FTL drives & coms, psionic abilities, megaengineering energy requirements, time travel and stuff like that - are relegated ever more decisively into the realm of pure fantasy as our understanding of the universe increases. And there are not many writers who have the sheer talent, guts and understanding to take what's left and spin interesting tales of What If? without resorting to the time-honored props which have become as clichéd as magic swords are in fantasy.

I don't think you have to look all that hard to find current sf with strong ideas. Looking over my book log from the last couple of years I find several titles that would fit that description: Karl Schroeder's Sun of Suns, Robert Charles Wilson's Spin and Charles Stross's Accelerando are a few. Now mind you that I would describe all of these books as more or less flawed, but I still think they deliver intriguing ideas and some classical sense of wonder.

Haven't read Sun of Suns, may need to look that up. _Spin_ and _Accelerando_ are decent reads but bring almost nothing new to the table. I'm not a huge Stross fan anyway, since I think he abuses nanotech horribly.

[Doran Doran]

Maybe not in the same way as SF readers, but there's plenty of us that read fantasy (almost) exclusively that expect more than the "THAR BE DRAGINS!!1!!" drooling masses you seem to be eluding to. If I'm missing your point entirely, please forgive me and go a little further in depth into the type of mind expansion you're referring to.

No, I'm no talking about the refuse being toted to hapless readers under the various extruded fantasy product labels, which is just the same as all the SF tie-ins; garbage. But even the best of fantasy - which, for me, would include writers like Bakker, Martin, Kay - seldom teaches or gives new perspectives. It's more of a emotional trip. The possible exception to this is Bakker's PON series, which sets out to discuss issues that I suspect are kinda mind-opening to many of its readers.

But what did you truly bring back from ASOIAF? Pretty much nothing, beyond the emotional involvement and immersion in that world. Those are not bad things, but they wouldn't be enough for SF, which needs the added speculative component to measure up on my scale.

Which is why I've considerably less disappointed with Morgan going full-bore fantasy than I was when this book was first announced. I've enjoyed Kovacs in his various incarnations, but it was pretty much fantasy to begin with. I would prefer that kind if I had to choose, but I'll give Morgan the benefit of doubt and hope he doesn't spring us another Market Forces with swords.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

Still, it ain't all a matter of perspective. Serious SF has gotten progressively more difficult to write as we learn that most of the exciting props - FTL drives & coms, psionic abilities, megaengineering energy requirements, time travel and stuff like that - are relegated ever more decisively into the realm of pure fantasy as our understanding of the universe increases. And there are not many writers who have the sheer talent, guts and understanding to take what's left and spin interesting tales of What If? without resorting to the time-honored props which have become as clichéd as magic swords are in fantasy.

I've heard this argument many times and I just don't think it's correct. FTL and time travel have been seen as impossible based on our scientific knowledge for the entire existence of the sf genre (which I will here see as starting with Gernsback) and the little extra knowledge we've managed to gather in the eighty years or so since then has done nothing to change this. Sf has always been fantasy more than not and these props have always been an essential part of the genre. Hard sf has always been a minority part of the genre and just keeping to writing about known science has never automatically lead to neither commercial nor critical success. Presenting the fanciful has always been a much a much more important function of the genre.

One can of course have opinions whether sf today is actually any good, but all I'm saying is that there have never been a point in the past when it was actually any better.

Haven't read Sun of Suns, may need to look that up. _Spin_ and _Accelerando_ are decent reads but bring almost nothing new to the table. I'm not a huge Stross fan anyway, since I think he abuses nanotech horribly.

Well, it's always difficult to claim that any one idea is new in a book, but I thought for instance that Stross's discussions about the legal and economical (capitalism 2.0 or whatever he called it) aspects of suerhuman AIs was very intriguing and at least new to me.

Sun of Suns is a classical pulp adventure, but Schroeder has made a huge effort to ground it all in actual science. It is primarily a very impressive exercise in world building.

[Amras]

Darren over at The Genre Files has managed to score an early look at "The Steel Remains".

It isn't what you'd call a negative review...

[kcf]

I just got an email from Simon Spanton (the publisher) - this is what Joe Abercrombie has to say about The Steel Remains:

“Bold, brutal, and making no compromises – Morgan doesn’t so much twist the clichés of fantasy as take an axe to them. Then set them on fireâ€

JOE ABERCROMBIE

There's more, but Simon says it's not for publication (maybe Joe will continue the blurb for us)

[malek]

...just today I bought 'Altered Carbon'

[Guinevere Seaworth]

Thanks to Pat's blog I won a copy of Altered Carbon! Now I will find out what the hype is. Looking forward to reading it once I get in the mail.

[Oddy]

...just today I bought 'Altered Carbon'

Same. I want to read him before trying The Steel Remains.

[Decius]

I just got an email from Simon Spanton (the publisher) - this is what Joe Abercrombie has to say about The Steel Remains:

There's more, but Simon says it's not for publication (maybe Joe will continue the blurb for us)

Well, not that I had any doubts, but that blurb by Joe Abercrombie settles it - preordered.

[Amras]

Joe continues the blurb in this very interesting blog entry about 'The Steel Remains' (it seems I'm the link-monster for this book...). I was already intrigued enough to buy it on publication, but after having read that review of sorts, I'm also a bit horrified at the fact that a book exists that even Abercrombie thinks is too gory and extreme.

Now I HAVE to read it

[Lupigis]

Wow:

...if you think my stuff is in any way extreme, then think again, rapidly, because fantasy just got a whole lot more extreme, guys. I am proudly middle-of-the road, now. I am made bland, and inoffensive, and believe me, so is everybody else.

Very interesting post indeed. I want to read this book, but I am starting to get a little worried. Altered Carbon is pretty near my limit as violence goes and I'm beginning to wonder just how much more violent The Steel remains is.