Did rhaegar change his mind?

[OuttaOldtown]

What's the point of telling us a boy who was known to be killed is this so-called savior three books prior to introducing us to a boy who may be this child? I believe your assertions are misinterpretations, I think Aegon is a fake & the vision is false. I question the validity of what she learns in the HotU being factual, there is some truth mixed in but I think it's more cryptic than you. I've read that chapter a dozen times, I still don't feel I understand everything but remain convinced the vision of Rhaegar isn't meant to be taken literally. Nope, do not believe the son of Rhaegar & Elia is the 'the song of ice and fire', not trying to change any minds, believe as you wish. If changing my mind is your goal you have no chance..

[purple-eyes]

Rhaegar is bookish and smart and into prophecy well. I do believe when he met lyanna in HH, he already thought about lyanna is ice to his fire. You know, the pact of ice and fire thing. This may even can explain his sudden move to crown her. 

If he only fell in love with her, he could have confessed his love in a more private way to avoid the political risk (which is not small since his father is mad with him already). 

 

[OuttaOldtown]

Rhaegar is bookish and smart and into prophecy well. I do believe when he met lyanna in HH, he already thought about lyanna is ice to his fire. You know, the pact of ice and fire thing. This may even can explain his sudden move to crown her. 

If he only fell in love with her, he could have confessed his love in a more private way to avoid the political risk (which is not small since his father is mad with him already). 

Not my opinion, I think it has to do with the sigil displayed by the KatLT, I feel that was what triggered it..

[purple-eyes]

Not my opinion, I think it has to do with the sigil displayed by the KatLT, I feel that was what triggered it..

heart tree? it means north and old gods I guess, but there was no obvious ice there. 

I think when he met her as KOLT and talked with her and knew she was from northern House Stark and suddenly or shortly after this, he thought about the ice and fire stuff. House Stark is related to ice. Not heart tree. 

[OuttaOldtown]

The carved weirwood face, seems like a likely symbol of Westerosi royalty to me, as the three headed dragon would be for Valryian. Considering Howland was at the Isle of Faces prior to going to HH. Again, can care less if anyone agrees with me, in fact I love that few do & try to make the 'love' & faithfulness the centerpiece of the discussion..

[UnmaskedLurker]

What's the point of telling us a boy who was known to be killed is this so-called savior three books prior to introducing us to a boy who may be this child? I believe your assertions are misinterpretations, I think Aegon is a fake & the vision is false. I question the validity of what she learns in the HotU being factual, there is some truth mixed in but I think it's more cryptic than you. I've read that chapter a dozen times, I still don't feel I understand everything but remain convinced the vision of Rhaegar isn't meant to be taken literally. Nope, do not believe the son of Rhaegar & Elia is the 'the song of ice and fire', not trying to change any minds, believe as you wish. If changing my mind is your goal you have no chance..

Now you have lost me. Do you think that I believe that Aegon is TPTWP? Do you think that I believe that YG is the "real" Aegon, son of Rhaegar? If you do, then I have done a poor job expressing myself.

And I am not trying to convince you of anything. I have two goals: (1) have an analytical discussion where each side's points are fully vetted through back-and-forth explanation by each and (2) outline the positions as clearly as possible for other readers so that they can make up their own minds with as much of the relevant information given to them as possible.

So there are two completely separate issues -- who did Rhaegar believe is TPTWP and who really is TPTPW. No matter who Rhaegar came to believe is TPTWP, I believe that Jon is TPTWP. He is the promised prince ("Promise me, Ned"). He is the Son(g) of Ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar), personified. When Mel tries to see AAR (another name for TPTWP, I believe), all she sees is Snow.

I also believe that YG is not the son of Rhaegar, and more likely the son of Illyrio and possibly Varys's sister, and might have Blackfyre and Brightflame ancestors. I certainly don't think that YG or anyone named Aegon is TPTWP.

But none of that information is relevant to the OP, so I am not sure why you brought up YG and whether he really is TPTWP. It is not really relevant to the question of what Rhaegar believed and when. Rhaegar clearly could be mistaken in his beliefs. So even if Rhaegar died believing Aegon is TPTWP, Rhaegar would have died being wrong.

All that aside, my argument is that I think that Rhaegar initially believed that he himself was TPTWP, and then he changed his mind to believe the Aegon was TPTWP and then possibly he changed his mind again and came to believe that his child with Lyanna (the boy we know as Jon Snow) would be TPTWP.

So the point of introducing Aegon in the vision has nothing to do with letting the readers know about Aegon three books before introducing the "real" Aegon. I don't believe that at all. I think the conversation really happened between Rhaegar and Elia. I think at the time of the birth of Aegon, Rhaegar believed that Aegon was TPTWP and told Elia this information. But Rhaegar was wrong. Aegon is not TPTWP. Rhaegar believed it and told it to Elia -- but he was wrong. And maybe he later realized he was wrong when he was expecting a child with Lyanna, a woman who is Ice to his Fire, he realized that child would be TPTWP. And if he came to that realization, then I believe he was correct in his final belief. But Rhaegar's belief is a completely different question from who really is TPTWP.

But the point of the vision is multi-fold. It introduces the readers to Rhaegar, who is a meaningful part of the back-story for the series (and ultimately quite important for the reveal of Jon's parents). It gives information about the prophecy -- that Rhaegar believes his children will be the three heads of the dragon (although some people have disagreed that Rhaegar is suggesting that point). And it is the one time where the title of the series is used when Rhaegar states that the song of TPTWP is A Song of Ice and Fire.

What is the point of it not being an actual scene from the past? How is that better for the story?

[OuttaOldtown]

Now you have lost me. Do you think that I believe that Aegon is TPTWP? Do you think that I believe that YG is the "real" Aegon, son of Rhaegar? If you do, then I have done a poor job expressing myself.

And I am not trying to convince you of anything. I have two goals: (1) have an analytical discussion where each side's points are fully vetted through back-and-forth explanation by each and (2) outline the positions as clearly as possible for other readers so that they can make up their own minds with as much of the relevant information given to them as possible.

So there are two completely separate issues -- who did Rhaegar believe is TPTWP and who really is TPTPW. No matter who Rhaegar came to believe is TPTWP, I believe that Jon is TPTWP. He is the promised prince ("Promise me, Ned"). He is the Son(g) of Ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar), personified. When Mel tries to see AAR (another name for TPTWP, I believe), all she sees is Snow.

I also believe that YG is not the son of Rhaegar, and more likely the son of Illyrio and possibly Varys's sister, and might have Blackfyre and Brightflame ancestors. I certainly don't think that YG or anyone named Aegon is TPTWP.

But none of that information is relevant to the OP, so I am not sure why you brought up YG and whether he really is TPTWP. It is not really relevant to the question of what Rhaegar believed and when. Rhaegar clearly could be mistaken in his beliefs. So even if Rhaegar died believing Aegon is TPTWP, Rhaegar would have died being wrong.

All that aside, my argument is that I think that Rhaegar initially believed that he himself was TPTWP, and then he changed his mind to believe the Aegon was TPTWP and then possibly he changed his mind again and came to believe that his child with Lyanna (the boy we know as Jon Snow) would be TPTWP.

So the point of introducing Aegon in the vision has nothing to do with letting the readers know about Aegon three books before introducing the "real" Aegon. I don't believe that at all. I think the conversation really happened between Rhaegar and Elia. I think at the time of the birth of Aegon, Rhaegar believed that Aegon was TPTWP and told Elia this information. But Rhaegar was wrong. Aegon is not TPTWP. Rhaegar believed it and told it to Elia -- but he was wrong. And maybe he later realized he was wrong when he was expecting a child with Lyanna, a woman who is Ice to his Fire, he realized that child would be TPTWP. And if he came to that realization, then I believe he was correct in his final belief. But Rhaegar's belief is a completely different question from who really is TPTWP.

But the point of the vision is multi-fold. It introduces the readers to Rhaegar, who is a meaningful part of the back-story for the series (and ultimately quite important for the reveal of Jon's parents). It gives information about the prophecy -- that Rhaegar believes his children will be the three heads of the dragon (although some people have disagreed that Rhaegar is suggesting that point). And it is the one time where the title of the series is used when Rhaegar states that the song of TPTWP is A Song of Ice and Fire.

What is the point of it not being an actual scene from the past? How is that better for the story?

I agree with you on nearly everything you wrote up until your view on the vision of Rhaegar saying to Dany that Aegon, his son with Elia, is the TPtwP. I believe the prophecy did not play itself out until the events at the tourney unfolded involving Lyanna..

[UnmaskedLurker]

I agree with you on nearly everything you wrote up until your view on the vision of Rhaegar saying to Dany that Aegon, his son with Elia, is the TPtwP. I believe the prophecy did not play itself out until the events at the tourney unfolded involving Lyanna..

Again, I am confused. Rhaegar meets Lyanna at a tourney that occured BEFORE Aegon is born. Lyanna probably was TKotLT at that tourney and we know Rhaegar crowned her TQoLaB there. Nothing else happened between them there and no prophecy was really involved there. So I have no idea what you mean by your last sentence.

Some time after the tourney, Aegon is born to Elia. Rhaegar has a conversation with Elia shortly after Aegon's birth. I believe the vision in HotU is an accurate re-telling of that conversation. In that conversation Rhaegar tells Elia (not Dany who is not even born yet) that Aegon is TPTWP and the song of TPTWP is ASOIAF. No prophecy is played out there. It is just a conversation between Rhaegar and his wife about their new-born son. Then in HotU, Dany is given a vision where she sees a replay of this conversation. The only "magical" part of the vision (other than Dany being able to see a vision of a conversation that took place more than 15 years in the past) is when Rhaegar appears to look at Dany. That "magic" is important because what Rhaegar says at that point -- a statement he made to Elia more than 15 years in the past -- serves now also as a message to Dany that she needs to find the other heads of the dragon.

Now some time after that conversation between Rhaegar and Elia (which happened more than 15 years in the past), Elia finds out she cannot have any more children. Then Rhaegar decides he needs to have the third head with another woman. At some point thereafter, Rhaegar and Lyanna meet up and go off together and Lyanna gets pregnant and eventually gives birth to Jon.

I believe that some time between the conversation between Elia and Rhaegar (shortly after the birth of Aegon, when Rhaegar clearly believes that Aegon is TPTWP) and the pregnancy of Lyanna, Rhaegar might have come to the opinion that the baby with Lyanna -- and not Aegon -- really will be TPTWP. But it does not matter if Rhaegar changed his mind. Jon is TPTWP no matter what Rhaegar thought. But the question in the OP is whether Rhaegar changed his mind about TPTWP being Jon rather than Aegon.

ETA: Of course Dany does not believe that Rheagar is correct that Aegon is TPTWP. Dany realizes that Rhaegar made those statements while he and Elia and Aegon were all still alive. The message that Dany takes from the vision (and I think she is right) is that she is one of the heads of the dragon and she needs to find the other two Targs who are the other two heads of the dragon. But Rhaegar does not tell Dany this information. Dany deduces this information from hearing the conversation between Rhaegar and Elia that took place more than 15 years prior. And the "magic" of having Rhaegar seem to look at Dany is meant as a clue to Dany to pay attention to what Rhaegar is saying at that moment because it contains a message to her -- and she clearly gets and understands that message.

[OuttaOldtown]

 

Not sure what you don't get, I do not believe Rhaegar ever said that or thought that, I think the vision is false. I don't know how else to explain it, I think he knew the child he had with Lyanna would be TPtwP. 

 

 

[purple-eyes]

Again, I am confused. Rhaegar meets Lyanna at a tourney that occured BEFORE Aegon is born. Lyanna probably was TKotLT at that tourney and we know Rhaegar crowned her TQoLaB there. Nothing else happened between them there and no prophecy was really involved there. So I have no idea what you mean by your last sentence.

Some time after the tourney, Aegon is born to Elia. Rhaegar has a conversation with Elia shortly after Aegon's birth. I believe the vision in HotU is an accurate re-telling of that conversation. In that conversation Rhaegar tells Elia (not Dany who is not even born yet) that Aegon is TPTWP and the song of TPTWP is ASOIAF. No prophecy is played out there. It is just a conversation between Rhaegar and his wife about their new-born son. Then in HotU, Dany is given a vision where she sees a replay of this conversation. The only "magical" part of the vision (other than Dany being able to see a vision of a conversation that took place more than 15 years in the past) is when Rhaegar appears to look at Dany. That "magic" is important because what Rhaegar says at that point -- a statement he made to Elia more than 15 years in the past -- serves now also as a message to Dany that she needs to find the other heads of the dragon.

Now some time after that conversation between Rhaegar and Elia (which happened more than 15 years in the past), Elia finds out she cannot have any more children. Then Rhaegar decides he needs to have the third head with another woman. At some point thereafter, Rhaegar and Lyanna meet up and go off together and Lyanna gets pregnant and eventually gives birth to Jon.

I believe that some time between the conversation between Elia and Rhaegar (shortly after the birth of Aegon, when Rhaegar clearly believes that Aegon is TPTWP) and the pregnancy of Lyanna, Rhaegar might have come to the opinion that the baby with Lyanna -- and not Aegon -- really will be TPTWP. But it does not matter if Rhaegar changed his mind. Jon is TPTWP no matter what Rhaegar thought. But the question in the OP is whether Rhaegar changed his mind about TPTWP being Jon rather than Aegon.

ETA: Of course Dany does not believe that Rheagar is correct that Aegon is TPTWP. Dany realizes that Rhaegar made those statements while he and Elia and Aegon were all still alive. The message that Dany takes from the vision (and I think she is right) is that she is one of the heads of the dragon and she needs to find the other two Targs who are the other two heads of the dragon. But Rhaegar does not tell Dany this information. Dany deduces this information from hearing the conversation between Rhaegar and Elia that took place more than 15 years prior. And the "magic" of having Rhaegar seem to look at Dany is meant as a clue to Dany to pay attention to what Rhaegar is saying at that moment because it contains a message to her -- and she clearly gets and understands that message.

Actually we do not have a firm proof that Aegon was born after the HH tourney. 

(If you have a quote stating this, please share with me)

It can possibly be the opposite that baby Aegon was born before the tourney. 

 

 

[UnmaskedLurker]

Not sure what you don't get, I do not believe Rhaegar ever said that or thought that, I think the vision is false. I don't know how else to explain it, I think he knew the child he had with Lyanna would be TPtwP. 

We know Aegon was born before Lyanna got pregnant with Jon. So it is possible that Rhaegar initially believed that Aegon was TPTWP and then changed his mind to Jon. We know that Rhaegar initially thought that he himself was TPTWP -- Aemon tells us this information.

I still do not understand why you think that the vision is false. What give Dany a false vision? What is the point? Why is there any benefit in the story for the vision to be false?

Actually we do not have a firm proof that Aegon was born after the HH tourney. 

(If you have a quote stating this, please share with me)

It can possibly be the opposite that baby Aegon was born before the tourney. 

I think it is fairly certain that the tourney came first. Elia is at that tourney. Elia was bedridden for a long time after the birth of Aegon. The timing just does not work for Aegon to be born, Elia to recover from being bedridden, and then have the tourney. The tourney is in 281. Aegon is born in 281 or 282. There really just is not time for the event to happen in the other order -- the touney must have come first. But even IF the tourney came after the birth of Aegon, it would not affect my main point about the vision being a real re-telling of a conversation between Rhaegar and Elia shortly after the birth of Aegon. My basic outline still works either way. I still don't understand that point to saying that the vision is false. How does it work better for the story if the vision is false? What is the problem with the vision being real?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Actually we do not have a firm proof that Aegon was born after the HH tourney. 

(If you have a quote stating this, please share with me)

It can possibly be the opposite that baby Aegon was born before the tourney. 

The Tourney of Harrenhal took place in 281, most likely early in 281 given all the other events that took place that year.

Rheagar married Elia in 280. That would mean that Rhaenys would have been born in 280 at the earliest and we are told

Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar's wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker. After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon's birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince Rhaegar afterward.

 

Aegon had to have been born after the Tourney.

 

 

[purple-eyes]

We know Aegon was born before Lyanna got pregnant with Jon. So it is possible that Rhaegar initially believed that Aegon was TPTWP and then changed his mind to Jon. We know that Rhaegar initially thought that he himself was TPTWP -- Aemon tells us this information.

I still do not understand why you think that the vision is false. What give Dany a false vision? What is the point? Why is there any benefit in the story for the vision to be false?

I think it is fairly certain that the tourney came first. Elia is at that tourney. Elia was bedridden for a long time after the birth of Aegon. The timing just does not work for Aegon to be born, Elia to recover from being bedridden, and then have the tourney. The tourney is in 281. Aegon is born in 281 or 282. There really just is not time for the event to happen in the other order -- the touney must have come first. But even IF the tourney came after the birth of Aegon, it would not affect my main point about the vision being a real re-telling of a conversation between Rhaegar and Elia shortly after the birth of Aegon. My basic outline still works either way. I still don't understand that point to saying that the vision is false. How does it work better for the story if the vision is false? What is the problem with the vision being real?

I think vision is true. It is a past event, like a video there. Why need to be a false one?

But I think you can not say for certain that Aegon's birth happened after the tourney. 

For all we know when Rhaegar left DS or KL in very early 282, Aegon was his "young son" (not even "newborn son"). So it sounds like Aegon was born in late 281. And we know that tourney and false spring happened at the close of year 281. 

So if you think Aegon has not born yet during tourney, then Elia must be very heavy in her pregnancy and ready for the birth. She can not travel in this situation. so There is a chance that Aegon was born before Tourney.

Elia was bedridden for a long time after birth of Rhaenys, not Aegon. It is interesting that GRRM said Rhaegys made Elia stayed in bed for half year, but for Aegon she was almost killed. So he left himself a little bit flexibility that Elia can travel after Aegon's birth. This birth almost killed her in the birth bed, but was she in bed for very long time after this? Not sure. A difficult and long birth can almost kill the mother, but after the baby was delivered, the difficult part was done and she may recover in a couple of months. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[purple-eyes]

The Tourney of Harrenhal took place in 281, most likely early in 281 given all the other events that took place that year.

Rheagar married Elia in 280. That would mean that Rhaenys would have been born in 280 at the earliest and we are told

Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar's wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker. After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon's birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince Rhaegar afterward.

 

Aegon had to have been born after the Tourney.

 

 

I used to hold the same opinion as you. I assumed "false spring" should be in a normal "spring" time. Like Feb or March. 

Until the world book told us: 

The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close,winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. 

It sounds like false spring happened very late in the year. Considering there are several things happening before the tourney in 281:

Elia recovered, Elia traveled in Kingswood and was attacked, Arthur (and young Jaime) was sent to destroy the brotherhood, Jaime visited Cersei, Cersei arranged him to join KG using one month, then tourney was declared by Whent, then Tywin was angered and returned, then people went to HH for tourney. 

Keep in mind all of these happened before the tourney in 281. 

There is no doubt that Tourney happened in the late time of the year 281. 

So there is a possibility that Aegon was born before the tourney. 

 

 

[OuttaOldtown]

So he met Dany's eyes in the vision, did he really do that? She saw a lot of things I do not think should be taken literally. Including that vision. The 'song of ice and fire' being their baby makes no sense in any way shape or form to me. So the vision must be a misinterpretation..

[UnmaskedLurker]

 

I used to hold the same opinion as you. I assumed "false spring" should be in a normal "spring" time. Like Feb or March. 

Until the world book told us: 

The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close,winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. 

It sounds like false spring happened very late in the year. Considering there are several things happening before the tourney in 281:

Elia recovered, Elia traveled in Kingswood and was attacked, Arthur (and young Jaime) was sent to destroy the brotherhood, Jaime visited Cersei, Cersei arranged him to join KG using one month, then tourney was declared by Whent, then Tywin was angered and returned, then people went to HH for tourney. 

Keep in mind all of these happened before the tourney in 281. 

There is no doubt that Tourney happened in the late time of the year 281. 

So there is a possibility that Aegon was born before the tourney. 

 

 

I don't think you are interpreting those words correctly from TWOIAF.  It would be False Summer or False Fall if it came later. I think the words mean that after about 2 months, the weather started to turn colder, so that summer and fall were colder than normal summer and fall -- and then once winter hit it really got bad. No one would call a warm Autumn a False Spring. It makes no sense.

So he met Dany's eyes in the vision, did he really do that? She saw a lot of things I do not think should be taken literally. Including that vision. The 'song of ice and fire' being their baby makes no sense in any way shape or form to me. So the vision must be a misinterpretation..

I think I finally see your issue. You think that under no circumstances would Rhaegar think that Aegon could be TPTWP because he could not have the song of ice and fire. Let me try to explain what you might be missing. Again -- not to "convince" you but to have a full airing of the issues and let others make up their own minds.

I think that Rhaegar read in one of the versions of the prophecy that the song of the promised prince would be the song of ice and fire. I think that information merely was something he read -- so he believed it. A song in this context is like an epic poem about a glorious battle or war. So the prophecy is saying that the story of the promised prince and the battle he leads to save the world will be told in an epic poem entitled the Song of Ice and Fire. The woods witch gave a prophecy that the promised prince would come from a descendant of Aerys and Rhaella -- which is why Rhaegar first thought he would be TPTWP. And we know for a certainty that Rhaegar thought himself to be the promised prince at one point because Aemon says this explicitly -- and Rhaegar is not a combination of ice and fire.

Rhaegar would have no reason to believe that the prince himself is Ice and Fire. Rather, Rhaegar likely would assume that the prince (first thinking himself and then later his son) would be Fire -- as a Targ -- and the enemy fought in battle would be Ice (like the Others, perhaps, but we have no indication that Rhaegar ever made that direct connection). So the promised prince does not need to be a combination of ice and fire. The prince can be fire and the enemy being fought can be ice.

The prophecy also talked about the signs of the prince -- being born amidst smoke and salt and that a bleeding star would be a sign of him coming. Aegon seemed to meet these signs, given a comet was seen when Aegon was conceived and Rhaegar had him born on DS where there is smoke and salt (here is a quote about DS: "Dragonstone was grim beyond a doubt, a lonely citadel in the wet waste surrounded by storm and salt, with the smoking shadow of the mountain at its back."  )

Based on these clues, Rhaegar had every reason to believe that Aegon was TPTWP. And at that point Rhaegar had no reason to think he would have a child with someone other than Elia -- so he had no way to have a child of ice and fire. Only after Elia could no longer have children would just an idea come to Rhaegar. So the vision as a real re-telling of events makes perfect sense. There just is no point in making it a false vision. And it does not preclude the theory that later Rhaegar once again changed his mind and thought Jon would be the promised prince once Lyanna became pregnant.

As far a meeting Dany's eyes -- as I stated, that was the magic part. Rhaegar seems to meet her eyes so that she will realize that the statement about the 3 heads is a message to her -- and she gets it. But the rest is all just a re-telling of a long-ago conversation.

[purple-eyes]

 

I don't think you are interpreting those words correctly from TWOIAF.  It would be False Summer or False Fall if it came later. I think the words mean that after about 2 months, the weather started to turn colder, so that summer and fall were colder than normal summer and fall -- and then once winter hit it really got bad. No one would call a warm Autumn a False Spring. It makes no sense.

I think I finally see your issue. You think that under no circumstances would Rhaegar think that Aegon could be TPTWP because he could not have the song of ice and fire. Let me try to explain what you might be missing. Again -- not to "convince" you but to have a full airing of the issues and let others make up their own minds.

I think that Rhaegar read in one of the versions of the prophecy that the song of the promised prince would be the song of ice and fire. I think that information merely was something he read -- so he believed it. A song in this context is like an epic poem about a glorious battle or war. So the prophecy is saying that the story of the promised prince and the battle he leads to save the world will be told in an epic poem entitled the Song of Ice and Fire. The woods witch gave a prophecy that the promised prince would come from a descendant of Aerys and Rhaella -- which is why Rhaegar first thought he would be TPTWP. And we know for a certainty that Rhaegar thought himself to be the promised prince at one point because Aemon says this explicitly -- and Rhaegar is not a combination of ice and fire.

Rhaegar would have no reason to believe that the prince himself is Ice and Fire. Rather, Rhaegar likely would assume that the prince (first thinking himself and then later his son) would be Fire -- as a Targ -- and the enemy fought in battle would be Ice (like the Others, perhaps, but we have no indication that Rhaegar ever made that direct connection). So the promised prince does not need to be a combination of ice and fire. The prince can be fire and the enemy being fought can be ice.

The prophecy also talked about the signs of the prince -- being born amidst smoke and salt and that a bleeding star would be a sign of him coming. Aegon seemed to meet these signs, given a comet was seen when Aegon was conceived and Rhaegar had him born on DS where there is smoke and salt (here is a quote about DS: "Dragonstone was grim beyond a doubt, a lonely citadel in the wet waste surrounded by storm and salt, with the smoking shadow of the mountain at its back."  )

Based on these clues, Rhaegar had every reason to believe that Aegon was TPTWP. And at that point Rhaegar had no reason to think he would have a child with someone other than Elia -- so he had no way to have a child of ice and fire. Only after Elia could no longer have children would just an idea come to Rhaegar. So the vision as a real re-telling of events makes perfect sense. There just is no point in making it a false vision. And it does not preclude the theory that later Rhaegar once again changed his mind and thought Jon would be the promised prince once Lyanna became pregnant.

As far a meeting Dany's eyes -- as I stated, that was the magic part. Rhaegar seems to meet her eyes so that she will realize that the statement about the 3 heads is a message to her -- and she gets it. But the rest is all just a re-telling of a long-ago conversation.

280 and 281 are winter for whole years. At some point it became warm so people thought spring finally came, but after less than two months, winter returned back. 

So it is called false spring. Spring has not come. It is still winter. It is a abrupt and short change of climate.  There was no summer, no autumn. 

This hsppened in real world a lot too. 

[purple-eyes]

Was toj a place of salt and smoke? 

It is inside red mountain, right? 

[UnmaskedLurker]

280 and 281 are winter for whole years. At some point it became warm so people thought spring finally came, but after less than two months, winter returned back. 

So it is called false spring. Spring has not come. It is still winter. It is a abrupt and short change of climate.  There was no summer, no autumn. 

This hsppened in real world a lot too. 

So you are saying if it is really cold -- cold as winter -- until September -- and then in September it starts to get warm and then stays warm for two months -- and then get really cold again -- people would refer to September and October as "false spring"? I don't think so. False autumn, maybe, I don't know. Why would Sept and Oct ever be called Spring? I still think my reading of the words makes more sense.

[purple-eyes]

So you are saying if it is really cold -- cold as winter -- until September -- and then in September it starts to get warm and then stays warm for two months -- and then get really cold again -- people would refer to September and October as "false spring"? I don't think so. False autumn, maybe, I don't know. Why would Sept and Oct ever be called Spring? I still think my reading of the words makes more sense.

You do not know climate in Westeros is totally different? 

Here seasons come randomly and each season can last several years. 

New season can start any time and last any time. For example, Spring can start in dec, then after several years, a summer will come, but not nesessary in middle of year. 

Grrm said we will know the secrets of climate in the end. 

Many felt in the end ice and fire will become balanced after the last war then seasons will become regular like real world. 

 

And yes, what you said is completely right. Since this is after winter, it should be spring, so this is called false spring. Not autumn. 

By the way, the real spring arrived somewhere during rebellion and when dany was born in 284, it is summer. Then this summer lasted for 10 years.