Did rhaegar change his mind?

[purple-eyes]

rhaegar thought aegon is the promised prince with a song of ice and fire after his birth. 

Later He ran off with lyanna and fathered jon. 

Do you think he changed his mind and decided this time jon is the promised prince because lyanna is obviously ice? 

Or he only thought jon is just his third head, a spouse or helper for real promised prince aegon? 

He seems extremely protective on jon, assigning three KG for him but zero for aegon. 

KG also seemed very into jon rather than any other royal members. 

Maybe after he met lyanna he decided only his son from lyanna would be a song of ice and fire thus the promised prince? 

 

 

 

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Aegon was protected by Kings Landing and thousands of loyalists while the pregnant Lyanna only had three men. Aegon had the better protection.

 

From his conversation with Jaime, as well as Aerys and Rhaegars refusal to call on more Reach soldiers, it seems that he was confident of beating the Rebels on the Trident.

[eazy]

Rhaegar changed his mind before, as we know at first he had thought that he himself is the PTWP, so I can see him changing his mind again. However I don't think that was the reason why he left 3 KG with Jon and none with Aegon. Aegon was safe in Rhager's mind, remember that Rhaegar was sure that the rebelion falls after Trident, so I guess in his mind Aegon didn't need any special defenders, since he was already behind the well-garrisoned walls.

ETA: ninja'd for most of my reply

[redtree]

He thought baby Aegon was the magic prince, he just needed another to complete three heads of dragons. The spare, i think. Too bad he didn't assign plan B for the designated magic prince, if only he assigned someone who know the underground way of the red keep to protect Elia and their children, they'd at least be alive

[Lord Fauntleroy]

Just because Aegon (is still) the Prince that was Promised doesn't undermine the three-heads rule. He looks Dany right in the face and tells her as much. Aegon is the PtwP, but he needs two companion "heads" to fulfill the prophesy. (one being Dany since Rhaegar stares at her when he says this)

 

Jon being the third head makes him very important yes, and deserving of secrecy and protection. But Aegon still stays in a fortified castle that only got breached because Aerys is retarded. 

[Mladen]

Was it possible? With the mind as fickle as Rhaegar's was on the matter, it is indeed possible. Did he? I doubt.

There are many unknown variables here. Was Lyanna solely the womb for the 3rd dragon's head? We have enough to doubt that he has indeed loved her. Who else was involved in entire thing? And what were Rhaegar's thoughts on the matter at the time of his death is unknown. What we do know is that he did believe Aegon was the one, and that he needed 3rd head at some point. That is the last thing we know he said about this. Honestly, given that I very seriously doubt Elia was part of all this conundrum, I do believe Rhaegar was thinking Aegon is the one, and that child with Lyanna would be the third - female head of the dragon. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

 

Jon being the third head makes him very important yes, and deserving of secrecy and protection. But Aegon still stays in a fortified castle that only got breached because Aerys is retarded. 

Rhaegar had a hand in that as well.

Jon Darry and Barristan Selmy rode to Stoney Sept to rally what they could of griffins' men, and Prince Rhaegar returned from the south and persuaded his father to swallow his pride and summon my father.

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Could he changed his mind? Definatelly yes. Did he? I don't think so. He went through with his plan even after the declaration of the Rebellion. That for me speaks volumes about how obsesed he was with the prophecy.

 

After all @OP you seem to believe that he thought that Lyanna will give birth to another PTWP who has ice, when I think that he was trying to give his TPTWP aka Aegon a future bride which would had been his ice part.

[Barty]

I dont think so - He just needed another child to fulfill the dragon has 3 heads nonsense. I think he expected Jon would be a girl. 

And as has been mentioned before he didnt leave Aegon unguarded. He just didnt expect to lose - the more fool he. 

[UnmaskedLurker]

I have long been a proponent of the theory that Rheagar could have changed his mind about who was going to be TPTWP. Many of the reasons have already been stated -- he changed his mind once already from himself to Aegon -- he states that the song of TPTWP is the Song of Ice and Fire, and a son by Rhaegar and Lyanna would be a Son(g) of Ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar), personified. The statement in TWOIAF that an arranged marriage (that never ended up happening,by the way) during DoD 1.0 between a Targ and a Stark had been called the Pact of Ice and Fire. That reference, which Rhaegar as a student of history likely would know about, would suggest that Rhaegar would view a union between himself and Lyanna as a union of ice and fire. As to the notion that Rhaegar wanted an Ice daughter to marry his Fir son, Aegon, there is no reason to think that Aegon is Fire while a daughter with Lyanna would be Ice as that daughter would still be half Targ.

As to the question of why Rhaegar did not chase after Lyanna sooner if he thought she would be Ice to his Fire -- the answer is simple, he was married to Elia. It was not until Elia found out she could not give Rhaegar a third child that Rhaegar would consider having a child with another woman. When Aegon is born, Rhaegar only thinks he needs the third head. Then Elia finds out she can have no more children and Rhaegar needs the third head from another woman. When that woman turns out to be Lyanna -- the Ice/Fire connection would become obvious to Rhaegar.

[Summer314]

I think that he changed his mind about him being the prince that was promised, but he still believed another long night would come soon. With respect to the third head of the dragon, it seems to me that the theory that Rhaegar wanted a third head comes from Dany's vision in the house of the undying, and I don't think the Rhaegar and Elia's vision is a verbatim scene of the past...

Lately, I think more and more likely that Rhaegar wanted, on one hand, to put Viserys, who was showing signs of insanity, further down on the line of succession by having more heirs, and on another hand, (and I know this is going to sound strange!) to have blood ties to the Starks, since they would have to have a close working relationship with them on the future. That Rhaegar and Lyanna liked each other didn't hurt either! None of it worked out the way he wanted, though.

[Anath]

I believe he changed his mind. Not only was not Aegon the Prince but he was not even a head of the dragon. The first three heads didn't have two different mothers. I believe he intended to start making the true dragon heads with Lyanna, no matter if he started it this way or he indeed saw the child he expected of her to be a girl. Who did he leave with the guys who are traditionally associated with the royal family? Not Elia and her children. Who did he leave to keep serving as hostage to Aerys (and Rhaegar himself, I believe, since he wanted Dorne's forces) when he called the shots and had Aerys eating from his hand? Not Lyanna. Who isn't mentioned in his last conversation with Jaime when reminding him that he was protecting the future king would be a normal reaction to soothe a boy's hurt pride in being left? Aegon.

IMO, Rhaegar intended to send Elia and her children away after he returned victorious and have a new prince of promise, prince of Dragonstone, heir of the Iron Throne in Lyanna's firstborn.

As additional thought that isn't being mentioned all this often here: what did he intend to do with Lyanna's subsequent children if he still thought Elia's were so vital? Would they play no part?

[OuttaOldtown]

Jumping to a conclusion that he knew he'd have to stray from Elia to eventually be with Lyanna is far to big of a leap for me, I sooner believe he saw the sign he was looking for at the tourney. Way to many assumptions that Rhaegar knew the cost of his choices, this is where I disagree with much of the fan base..

[Good Guy Garlan]

He needed three heads of the dragon so that Aegon the PtwP could be a child of three and fulfill the prophecy

[UnmaskedLurker]

Jumping to a conclusion that he knew he'd have to stray from Elia to eventually be with Lyanna is far to big of a leap for me, I sooner believe he saw the sign he was looking for at the tourney. Way to many assumptions that Rhaegar knew the cost of his choices, thus us where I disagree with much of the fan base..

I don't believe he knew he would stray from Elia at all at that time. When Aegon is born -- which is after the tourney -- Rhaegar believes Aegon is TPTWP and that Elia will give Rhaegar all 3 heads. Only AFTER Elia finds out she can have no more children and AFTER Rhaegar decides he needs to have the third head with another woman and AFTER he decides that other woman would be Lyanna -- only at that point would Rhaegar change his mind and consider that a child with Lyanna and not with Elia would be TPTWP.

[OuttaOldtown]

I don't believe he knew he would stray from Elia at all at that time. When Aegon is born -- which is after the tourney -- Rhaegar believes Aegon is TPTWP and that Elia will give Rhaegar all 3 heads. Only AFTER Elia finds out she can have no more children and AFTER Rhaegar decides he needs to have the third head with another woman and AFTER he decides that other woman would be Lyanna -- only at that point would Rhaegar change his mind and consider that a child with Lyanna and not with Elia would be TPTWP.

Many assume Elia was the woman in vision & many take it as a fact as you appear to be doing, I do not, I feel that this thinking is a misdirection. Since we do not know the actual prophecy of TPtwP or what it exactly entails I cannot say that would be his reasoning. One thing is clear, Rhaegar didn't choose Elia to be his wife so I'm hesitant to believe she is connected to the prophecy, and furthermore a Targ/Martell child hardly represents ice & fire. I know it's unpopular to not believe the vision in the HotU as factual but that's my opinion, it doesn't match up for me nearly well enough. I also think the 'three heads' is not something anyone can speak of as knowing what it means on a factual level, including myself.

 

 

[Shierak Qiya]

Aegon was protected by Kings Landing and thousands of loyalists while the pregnant Lyanna only had three men. Aegon had the better protection.

 

From his conversation with Jaime, as well as Aerys and Rhaegars refusal to call on more Reach soldiers, it seems that he was confident of beating the Rebels on the Trident.

Yes, plus another possibility existed.  Aegon was safely out of King's Landing.  Princess Ellia, Rhaenys, the other baby, and the Kingsguard were decoys.  You don't sneak Prince Aegon out with three Kingsguard in full uniform as that marks him like a bull's eye target.  Dayne, Hightower, and Whent were too well-known celebrities to use to escort Aegon out.   Aerys was spreading his family out to maximize the chances of his bloodline continuing.  The queen and Viserys were escorted by men who could blend in and were already safely placed on Dragonstone. 

What Rhaegar was thinking is not important.  He was wrong about more than a few things.  He never thought a sister born after his death could be the Azor Ahai.  Dany's (the dragon) birth (wake) on Dragonstone (stone) is the partial fulfillment of "to wake dragons from stone" in the prophecy.  The rest of the prophecy was completely fulfilled when Dany herself "woke dragons from stone" with the births of Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion.  Rhaegar's timing was one generation too early.  While it is true that the promised one has to come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella, it did not mean that she could come from Rhaegar's and Lyanna.  It's not enough to merely have half-Targaryen blood, the promised one needed to have all Targaryen blood.   We can look at some clues for this.  The reason why Aerys rejected Cersei for Rhaegar wasn't really due to his dislike for the Lannisters, despite what he said.  That was just arrogance and bluster talking when he called Tywin a servant.  How can a Martell stand above a Lannister?  Not socially.  Cersei just lacked the necessary ingredient in her blood.  No, Aerys was doing the best he could to bring about the prophecy.  He and Rhaella had sons, but not daughter.  He did the best he could and married Rhaegar to someone with Targaryen blood.  Sending Steffon to Essos before settling for Ellia was really about trying to find another "Targaryen carrier", as pure as possible.   Ashara was available but without knowing her family tree it's difficult to guess why she was rejected.  The promised one needed to have purity of the blood for three generations.  Daenerys fulfills that condition.  There it is again, the oft-cited #3. 

 

[UnmaskedLurker]

Many assume Elia was the woman in vision & many take it as a fact as you appear to be doing, I do not, I feel that this thinking is a misdirection. Since we do not know the actual prophecy of TPtwP or what it exactly entails I cannot say that would be his reasoning. One thing is clear, Rhaegar didn't choose Elia to be his wife so I'm hesitant to believe she is connected to the prophecy, and furthermore a Targ/Martell child hardly represents ice & fire. I know it's unpopular to not believe the vision in the HotU as factual but that's my opinion, it doesn't match up for me nearly well enough. I also think the 'three heads' is not something anyone can speak of as knowing what it means on a factual level, including myself.

 

Certainly you are entitled to your opinion. I don't follow the reasoning for how you came to that conclusion -- but you certainly can choose to believe whatever you wish. I find absolutely no reason to doubt that the conversation is real. In fact, GRRM was asked whether Elia is the woman in the vision and he confirmed she was -- now that confirmation does not prove that the conversation is a real conversation that actually happened, but I see no reason to believe otherwise.

I have no idea what it means when you say that "it doesn't match up for me nearly well enough." Match up in what sense? The conversation makes perfect sense. Elia has finally given Rhaegar a male heir (the first child being a girl). Rhaegar and Elia are talking about their infant son and Rhaegar is telling Elia why he chose the name and what destiny Aegon has and mentions that he needs a third child, i.e., there must be one more because the dragon has three heads. That statement clearly is not directed specifically to Dany because Dany is at most one head and would know of no other -- so from Dany's point of view she needs two more heads -- there must be two more. No, Rhaegar is talking about the situation at that time and the conversation makes perfect sense in that context.

And the message to Dany is that she needs to find the other heads -- so it serves as a message to Dany, but it cannot be a "magical vision" of Rhaegar talking to Dany because the reference to one more does not work in that sense -- it only works if Rhaegar really had that conversation with Elia and Dany is intended to understand the need to find the other heads of the dragon.

As to your point about Targ/Martell not being Ice/Fire -- I don't think Rhaegar originally thought that TPTWP would be the union of ice and fire -- only that his ultimate battle would in some way involved ice and fire. But later -- when Rhaegar is having a baby with Lyanna -- at that point Rhaegar would make the connection that this baby himself would be Ice/Fire.

[OuttaOldtown]

Pyat states she will see "things that never were", also the fact that it states 'he looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany's', if it happened who is he looking at? Sorry but I'm very content to disagree with the majority on my views on this, I think the fandom is biting a hook and insisting it's food. Oh and what George says means less to me than the words on the pages..

[UnmaskedLurker]

Pyat states she will see "things that never were", also the fact that it states 'he looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany's', if it happened who is he looking at? Sorry but I'm very content to disagree with the majority on my views on this, I think the fandom is biting a hook and insisting it's food. Oh and what George says means less to me than the words on the pages..

As I stated above, the vision's purpose in being shown to Dany is so that she knows to look for the other two heads. So the part about Rhaegar appearing to look at Dany is the vision telling Dany -- pay attention to this next statement, which is when he says that there must be one more because the dragon has three heads. And of course she sees things that "never were" -- like the vision of Rhaego that never is going to happen. But she also sees things that we know did happen -- like the death of Viserys. 

So some visions are "real" and some are "not real" and the reader needs to separate one from the other. No point would be served by having the Rhaegar vision not be real. What is the purpose? Just to mislead readers? Mislead them to believe what? And why? There needs to be a reason for the vision not to be real -- and I don't see any such reason here. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense in and of itself if it is real -- and it serves an important purpose in giving Dany needed information about there being 3 heads.