Something about Lysa Tully

[Lord Fauntleroy]

1) So was Jon Arryn!

2) Not solely, no. But she absolutely had the power to prevent it, both by calling the banners in defense of her family as she was technically obligated to do by custom, and by simply not telling Catelyn that the Lannisters had murdered Jon Arryn.

This tbh

[Pod The Rod]

Neither Lysa nor Lyanna betrayed their families. Their fathers didn't give a damn about their daughters and married them to totally unsuitable husbands. A lifetime of getting raped is a horrible fate. Too bad, no one raped Rickard and Hoster.

Hoster Tully could have found some guy in Lysa's age range, if he cared about her, but he was fine with his daughter getting raped by a disgusting old man.

Tywin Lannister might not have known Robert B before he married Cersei to him (although he likely would arrange that marriage anyway), but Rickard didn't have that excuse. Ned grew up together with Robert and knew very well, that he would make a horrible husband, so I assume that Rickard knew it, too.

The one who betrayed his family by not marrying, whom he should, was Robb. Walder Frey has so many daughters and granddaughters and Robb could choose one, so he would neither have to marry a grandma nor an alcoholic slut with violent anger outbursts.

Pretty much every marriage is arranged in this time period. You're saying they all involve rape? Jon Arryn is/was a good, upstanding man, not some disgusting pervert.

Um, Ned thought Robert would still be a good husband, his friendship blinded him. 

 

There is just so much wrong in your post.

[NorthWestern]

Pretty much every marriage is arranged in this time period. You're saying they all involve rape? Jon Arryn is/was a good, upstanding man, not some disgusting pervert.

Um, Ned thought Robert would still be a good husband, his friendship blinded him. 

 

There is just so much wrong in your post.

No, I'm not saying that every arranged marriage involves rape (see, what I said about Robb), but a marriage to a totally unsuitable spouse does. Jon Arryn was at least 46 yrs Lysa's senior with bad breath, hard to imagine that she would want to have sex with him. Just thinking about having to sleep with someone like that make me cringe. Whether he is honorable or dishonorable doesn't change the fact, that she finds him physically repulsive. And that makes it rape.

[Wavey Sauce]

Mmmmm'kay. I have to tell some female friends that they are nuts. Won't be easy but Wavey Sauce said they are.

99% of people look at that as creepy nutty

[Wavey Sauce]

To those who think Sweet Robin is LF's cause is small and sickly...........no

 

Hoster had Lysa drinking tons of moon tea when he knew she was having sex with LF and maybe others. If she were to become pregnant before that big arranged marriage, she would be useless and not a suitable bride. But all that moon tea to keep her from being pregnant still had that bad long term effect

[Lee-Sensei]

1) So was Jon Arryn!

2) Not solely, no. But she absolutely had the power to prevent it, both by calling the banners in defense of her family as she was technically obligated to do by custom, and by simply not telling Catelyn that the Lannisters had murdered Jon Arryn.

1) I never said he wasn't.

2) It's not her responsibility to bail the Starks out when they're incompetence leads them into a disaster. She did the right thing when she stayed neutral and I bet the majority of the Valemen are grateful that she did,

[Lee-Sensei]

Neither Lysa nor Lyanna betrayed their families. Their fathers didn't give a damn about their daughters and married them to totally unsuitable husbands. A lifetime of getting raped is a horrible fate. Too bad, no one raped Rickard and Hoster.

Hoster Tully could have found some guy in Lysa's age range, if he cared about her, but he was fine with his daughter getting raped by a disgusting old man.

Tywin Lannister might not have known Robert B before he married Cersei to him (although he likely would arrange that marriage anyway), but Rickard didn't have that excuse. Ned grew up together with Robert and knew very well, that he would make a horrible husband, so I assume that Rickard knew it, too.

The one who betrayed his family by not marrying, whom he should, was Robb. Walder Frey has so many daughters and granddaughters and Robb could choose one, so he would neither have to marry a grandma nor an alcoholic slut with violent anger outbursts.

How would they know he'd make a terrible husband?

[Pod The Rod]

1) I never said he wasn't.

2) It's not her responsibility to bail the Starks out when they're incompetence leads them into a disaster. She did the right thing when she stayed neutral and I bet the majority of the Valemen are grateful that she did,

Stark incompetence? I'd say you can't be serious except I know you are. If the mountains of evidence that the Starks weren't incompetent but merely a victim of GRRM's thumb on the scales haven't convinced you already, you never will be.

Also, *their

[Lee-Sensei]

Stark incompetence? I'd say you can't be serious except I know you are. If the mountains of evidence that the Starks weren't incompetent but merely a victim of GRRM's thumb on the scales haven't convinced you already, you never will be.

Also, *their

1) Yes. Stark incompetence. They were screw ups and Lysa was under no obligation to bail them out.

2) Don't correct my spelling.

[Bloody Ben Blackwood]

Ok this escalated quickly.

Lot of marriages in my country are still arranged, this means half the women in my country are raped? I would not say so.

Lysa nearly executed Tyrion for a crime she knew he did not commit. Was her marriage to Jon Arryn to be blamed for that as well?

And if she really was this crazy in love brave girl then she could have eloped with Petyr, of course Petyr didn't love her and used for getting ahead. And Lysa while married to Jon Arryn kept helping out Petyr in secret, so much for her dignity.

Whether she should have helped Starks or not is a debatable question

[mmcg306]

Mmmmm'kay. I have to tell some female friends that they are nuts. Won't be easy but Wavey Sauce said they are.

Your friends are nuts, sorry.

Lysa was nuts. Its understandable why she became this way but nevertheless she was nuts. An overprotective smothering parent, a traitor to her family and a paranoid coward. I pretty much pinpoint all the Starks misfortune on her and Littlefinger being too horny for their own good.

[Lee-Sensei]

Your friends are nuts, sorry.

 

Lysa was nuts. Its understandable why she became this way but nevertheless she was nuts. An overprotective smothering parent, a traitor to her family and a paranoid coward. I pretty much pinpoint all the Starks misfortune on her and Littlefinger being too horny for their own good.

Really? how did she betray her son?

[kimim]

Ok this escalated quickly.

Lot of marriages in my country are still arranged, this means half the women in my country are raped? I would not say so.

Lysa nearly executed Tyrion for a crime she knew he did not commit. Was her marriage to Jon Arryn to be blamed for that as well?

And if she really was this crazy in love brave girl then she could have eloped with Petyr, of course Petyr didn't love her and used for getting ahead. And Lysa while married to Jon Arryn kept helping out Petyr in secret, so much for her dignity.

Whether she should have helped Starks or not is a debatable question

a lot of marriages in my family are arranged as well, and from what I can gather, many of them are happier than many of the "love" marriages I see in the US. I'm not calling for arranged marriages, but assuming rape as routine is ridiculous.

Also, yes, Lysa 1. nearly executed Tyrion, and didn't even go about it the right way. 2. She's abnormally protective of her son. I'm not sure what various people and their friends/family do today, but Westerosi women are not expected to breastfeed their kids until the age of six, or however old Robin is at that point. See Cat's response to Lysa and Robin. 3. She's insanely protective of LF, and as with Tyrion, her sense of justice is fucked up. She tries to toss Sansa out the moondoor because Petyr forced a kiss on her. Talk about punishing the victim.

 

[Wall Flower]

Lysa was unwilling to marry Jon Arryn so I think her marriage crossed the line into a forced marriage. The issue of arranged marriages in Westeros is probably an interesting topic in itself but in practice I think it is likely that there is not much choice and considerable social and family pressure involved in accepting the marriage that has been arranged. More social coercion that the marriage at swordpoint that Sansa was subjected to but not exactly freedom to agree or reject either.

I do have sympathy for Lysa in some respects and I understand why her son's safety trumps that of the Starks for her. However, Ned would still be chilling at Winterfell with his family if Lysa hadn't murdered her husband and sent that letter blaming the Lannisters. 

[mmcg306]

Really? how did she betray her son?

I wasn't saying she betrayed her son. But she may aswell have by the way she mothers him. I know he's a sick and dying idiot but I'm curious how Sweetrobin would have ended up if he was warded in the North.

[Lee-Sensei]

I wasn't saying she betrayed her son. But she may aswell have by the way she mothers him. I know he's a sick and dying idiot but I'm curious how Sweetrobin would have ended up if he was warded in the North.

You said she betrayed her family. Who's closer to her than her own son? Going by the Sansa TWOW chapter, he's more clued in than the Starks were.

[mmcg306]

You said she betrayed her family. Who's closer to her than her own son? Going by the Sansa TWOW chapter, he's more clued in than the Starks were.

in her own mind, there was no one of importance to Lysa than her own son. But to me, that's part of the initial problem, her tunnel vision when regarding who she cared about.

[Lee-Sensei]

in her own mind, there was no one of importance to Lysa than her own son. But to me, that's part of the initial problem, her tunnel vision when regarding who she cared about.

You still haven't explained how she betrayed her family. its not tunnel vision. Her son is rightfully more important to her than the rest of her family.

[mmcg306]

You still haven't explained how she betrayed her family. its not tunnel vision. Her son is rightfully more important to her than the rest of her family.

Ok.

[Bloody Ben Blackwood]

You still haven't explained how she betrayed her family. its not tunnel vision. Her son is rightfully more important to her than the rest of her family.

Ok