About Baela and Alyn Velaryon

[purple-eyes]

These two are cousins (or uncle and niece), both of them were burned by dragon fire somehow. 

I am not sure if their union is a love match or political match. Probably an arranged one since Alyn needs Baela to reinforce his claim towards Driftmark. 

But Alyn had some love affair with a young Dornish Princess Aliandra, he also had two bastard children with a very young Princess Elaena out of wedlock. 

At least when they started their affair, Baela should be alive because Longwaters told Jaime that Elaena is his true love although he was married to Baela. 

So he cheated on his wife so many times?

It seems cheating is very normal in Westeros for married men and mostly it will be described as true love and romantic beautiful relationship. 

Like Alyn with his two princesses, daemon with Nettles, Lyanna and Rhaegar, daemon and daenyres, etc. 

But when a married woman had some affairs, it is usually described as a bad thing. even when this woman is a queen. 

Like Rhaenyra with Harwin, Cersei with Jaime, even Naerys and Aemon's rumored relationship were thought as some crime and Daeron was called falseborn.  

Is not it unfair?

 

 

 

[Lord Varys]

It is not clear whether Baela was still alive when Alyn had his affair with Elaena in the 170s. I'm inclined to believe that she wasn't. As to the other affair(s), their marriage was most certainly arranged, but it would have been very difficult not to like a woman like Baela Targaryen, so Alyn's affairs most likely had to do with his youth and his long journeys resulting in being absent from his wife than with the fact that he didn't like her.

But you are right, of course, that women aren't allowed to have extramarital affairs in this society outside of Dorne.

[Anath]

Longwaters said that about 150 years after the events. Hardly a source of authority. It just sounds more romantic. Of course this lovely young woman would be Alyn's great love, it's just like in the songs!

People also said Daemon Blackfyre rebelled out of love for Daenerys...

And while Baela and Alyn's marriage was most certainly arranged, I'd be very surprised if he took a mistress at the time he was with his wife. I mean, home. Corlys was almost certainly afraid to acknowledge his bastards and Baela was Rhaenys' granddaughter. She would not have let this one fly without doing something worthy to be noted in the books.

We don't know that Baela was alive when Alyn and Elaena became a thing. The fact that Elaena hoped to marry him points more to another obstacle that could be overcome, not a living wife, IMO. He couldn't have two. I think Aegon the Unworthy might have been the problem. He's just the type to deny Elaena the marriage just out of spite, especially if he was into her himself, as the rumours of him fathering Viserys Plum might suggest.

[purple-eyes]

Longwaters said that about 150 years after the events. Hardly a source of authority. It just sounds more romantic. Of course this lovely young woman would be Alyn's great love, it's just like in the songs!

People also said Daemon Blackfyre rebelled out of love for Daenerys...

And while Baela and Alyn's marriage was most certainly arranged, I'd be very surprised if he took a mistress at the time he was with his wife. I mean, home. Corlys was almost certainly afraid to acknowledge his bastards and Baela was Rhaenys' granddaughter. She would not have let this one fly without doing something worthy to be noted in the books.

We don't know that Baela was alive when Alyn and Elaena became a thing. The fact that Elaena hoped to marry him points more to another obstacle that could be overcome, not a living wife, IMO. He couldn't have two. I think Aegon the Unworthy might have been the problem. He's just the type to deny Elaena the marriage just out of spite, especially if he was into her himself, as the rumours of him fathering Viserys Plum might suggest.

oh, this makes sense. 

Aegon may not want to marry her to a powerful man like aryn. Then he would not have chance to sleep with her. 

Talking about this, I think aegon IV was kind of amazing. He successfully slept with two princesses Daena and elaena and gave both of them bastards. It did not look like they were forced to sleep with him. He must be a charming person. 

 

 

[purple-eyes]

It is not clear whether Baela was still alive when Alyn had his affair with Elaena in the 170s. I'm inclined to believe that she wasn't. As to the other affair(s), their marriage was most certainly arranged, but it would have been very difficult not to like a woman like Baela Targaryen, so Alyn's affairs most likely had to do with his youth and his long journeys resulting in being absent from his wife than with the fact that he didn't like her.

But you are right, of course, that women aren't allowed to have extramarital affairs in this society outside of Dorne.

but baela was badly burned at a young age and may be ugly. Alyn may admire her bravery but he may prefer healthier beauties like aliandra and elaena. 

[Anath]

Talking about this, I think aegon IV was kind of amazing. He successfully slept with two princesses Daena and elaena and gave both of them bastards. It did not look like they were forced to sleep with him. He must be a charming person. 

I am not quite sure. I think the girls' circumstances were amazing, and I don't mean that in the good sense. They were isolated in this Maidenvault for many years and I doubt they had very good instincts about men. Even Daena's escapades cannot compare to living a normal life and meeting men every day. IMO, Daena liked not Aegon himself but the fact that he was Baelor's total opposite. If she lived long enough into his reign, she might have well thought, "The Stranger takes it, I cannot believe my own lack of taste!"

The Elaena affair is just a rumour and while it's certainly possible that they did have one, I'd think Elaena had other expectations of him, not those of romantic love, given how firmly she was entrenched into Daeron's camp later.

[Lord Varys]

Baela's marriage to Alyn was only arranged after the Dance, and this was clearly a move by Corlys to secure his legacy, marrying his only surviving son to his eldest granddaughter.

Nothing suggests that Baela was disfigured during the fight against Sunfyre. She suffered some burns, yes, but we don't know where those were, nor how bad/lasting they were. Not to mention that nothing suggests that Alyn had affairs early in his marriage. His affair with Elaena - the only confirmed affair, actually - happened around forty years after the end of the Dance.

The nature of the Elaena-Alyn affair must now be much different from the original Amok description thing. Alyn Velaryon was an old man at this point, and this thing most likely wasn't exactly an ideal romance. An old, done man falling for a young and inexperienced girl who had little more to offer than purple eyes and silver-gold hair - Elaena would turn out to be one of the smartest women of her generation but I'm not sure that was already evident when she came out of the Maidenvault (and she lacked good looks, though, at least in her youth - both Daena and Rhaena were more beautiful that she was). If Baela was already dead by this time then Alyn's disappearance at sea might have been the only thing that prevented their marriage.

Elaena's later marriage to Ossifer Plumm was clearly nothing but a joke. Ossifer was a walking corpse, just as Alyn had been a dead man walking. Surely Aegon IV told everyone who wanted to hear it that he had found the ideal husband for his dear cousin considering her taste in men.

Whether Aegon actually seduced Elaena - and did not rather rape her - is completely unclear. If Ossifer died during the bedding and before the marriage was consummated then Aegon's plan to claim the Plumm riches for himself upon his death was sort of in danger considering that a marriage usually has to be consummated.

And I'm pretty sure Daena was also not really into her cousin Aegon. She never became his mistress, and her bastard was part of the reason why she lost the Iron Throne to her uncle Viserys II. We know that Barbra Bracken was one of the companions of the princesses in the Maidenvault, and I'd not be surprised one bit if she had already been Aegon's lover by that time and played a crucial role hooking up Aegon and Daena so that Aegon could ruin her reputation and get thus closer to the throne. The chances that Aegon could contact Daena without using some inside help or that Daena just chanced upon her cousin outside the Maidenvault are both pretty low.

But Aegon is still described as a very witty and bright guy in his youth. He was most likely one of the smartest Targaryens running around, and the only who used his wits exclusively to his own advantage. He sure as hell should have had no problems seducing both Daena and Elaena while they were in the Maidenvault and perhaps even shortly thereafter.

[purple-eyes]

Baela's marriage to Alyn was only arranged after the Dance, and this was clearly a move by Corlys to secure his legacy, marrying his only surviving son to his eldest granddaughter.

Nothing suggests that Baela was disfigured during the fight against Sunfyre. She suffered some burns, yes, but we don't know where those were, nor how bad/lasting they were. Not to mention that nothing suggests that Alyn had affairs early in his marriage. His affair with Elaena - the only confirmed affair, actually - happened around forty years after the end of the Dance.

The nature of the Elaena-Alyn affair must now be much different from the original Amok description thing. Alyn Velaryon was an old man at this point, and this thing most likely wasn't exactly an ideal romance. An old, done man falling for a young and inexperienced girl who had little more to offer than purple eyes and silver-gold hair - Elaena would turn out to be one of the smartest women of her generation but I'm not sure that was already evident when she came out of the Maidenvault (and she lacked good looks, though, at least in her youth - both Daena and Rhaena were more beautiful that she was). If Baela was already dead by this time then Alyn's disappearance at sea might have been the only thing that prevented their marriage.

Elaena's later marriage to Ossifer Plumm was clearly nothing but a joke. Ossifer was a walking corpse, just as Alyn had been a dead man walking. Surely Aegon IV told everyone who wanted to hear it that he had found the ideal husband for his dear cousin considering her taste in men.

Whether Aegon actually seduced Elaena - and did not rather rape her - is completely unclear. If Ossifer died during the bedding and before the marriage was consummated then Aegon's plan to claim the Plumm riches for himself upon his death was sort of in danger considering that a marriage usually has to be consummated.

And I'm pretty sure Daena was also not really into her cousin Aegon. She never became his mistress, and her bastard was part of the reason why she lost the Iron Throne to her uncle Viserys II. We know that Barbra Bracken was one of the companions of the princesses in the Maidenvault, and I'd not be surprised one bit if she had already been Aegon's lover by that time and played a crucial role hooking up Aegon and Daena so that Aegon could ruin her reputation and get thus closer to the throne. The chances that Aegon could contact Daena without using some inside help or that Daena just chanced upon her cousin outside the Maidenvault are both pretty low.

But Aegon is still described as a very witty and bright guy in his youth. He was most likely one of the smartest Targaryens running around, and the only who used his wits exclusively to his own advantage. He sure as hell should have had no problems seducing both Daena and Elaena while they were in the Maidenvault and perhaps even shortly thereafter.

I agree that when Alyn disappeared, baela was probably already dead. But when they started their secret relationship, I think baela was still alive. Otherwise they would have married earlier. No need to let her potential children become bastards. 

And I also agree that Barba is the person who helped Daena to hook up with Aegon. 

But I do not think this is anything related to politics. Daena is beautiful and wanted to do something defiant, Aegon is Aegon, so he gladly accepted it. we know Aegon did not love her, so he just treated her like one of those 900 women I guess. Daena probably loved him, otherwise she can sleep with other men outside. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Isobel Harper]

Baela's marriage to Alyn was only arranged after the Dance, and this was clearly a move by Corlys to secure his legacy, marrying his only surviving son to his eldest granddaughter.

Nothing suggests that Baela was disfigured during the fight against Sunfyre. She suffered some burns, yes, but we don't know where those were, nor how bad/lasting they were. Not to mention that nothing suggests that Alyn had affairs early in his marriage. His affair with Elaena - the only confirmed affair, actually - happened around forty years after the end of the Dance.

The nature of the Elaena-Alyn affair must now be much different from the original Amok description thing. Alyn Velaryon was an old man at this point, and this thing most likely wasn't exactly an ideal romance. An old, done man falling for a young and inexperienced girl who had little more to offer than purple eyes and silver-gold hair - Elaena would turn out to be one of the smartest women of her generation but I'm not sure that was already evident when she came out of the Maidenvault (and she lacked good looks, though, at least in her youth - both Daena and Rhaena were more beautiful that she was). If Baela was already dead by this time then Alyn's disappearance at sea might have been the only thing that prevented their marriage.

Elaena's later marriage to Ossifer Plumm was clearly nothing but a joke. Ossifer was a walking corpse, just as Alyn had been a dead man walking. Surely Aegon IV told everyone who wanted to hear it that he had found the ideal husband for his dear cousin considering her taste in men.

Whether Aegon actually seduced Elaena - and did not rather rape her - is completely unclear. If Ossifer died during the bedding and before the marriage was consummated then Aegon's plan to claim the Plumm riches for himself upon his death was sort of in danger considering that a marriage usually has to be consummated.

And I'm pretty sure Daena was also not really into her cousin Aegon. She never became his mistress, and her bastard was part of the reason why she lost the Iron Throne to her uncle Viserys II. We know that Barbra Bracken was one of the companions of the princesses in the Maidenvault, and I'd not be surprised one bit if she had already been Aegon's lover by that time and played a crucial role hooking up Aegon and Daena so that Aegon could ruin her reputation and get thus closer to the throne. The chances that Aegon could contact Daena without using some inside help or that Daena just chanced upon her cousin outside the Maidenvault are both pretty low.

But Aegon is still described as a very witty and bright guy in his youth. He was most likely one of the smartest Targaryens running around, and the only who used his wits exclusively to his own advantage. He sure as hell should have had no problems seducing both Daena and Elaena while they were in the Maidenvault and perhaps even shortly thereafter.

Amazing.  I never considered that Aegon might've intended to ruin her reputation in order to gain the throne.

[Lord Varys]

Well, considering that TWoIaF revealed that Aegon IV was not just very horny but also a very smart, witty, and ruthless guy (hello there, patricide) I thought that whole thing was kind of obvious, at least as a theory.

The idea that he actually liked Daena is very unlikely in comparison, not to mention that she would have not been close to him in light of the fact that he was much older than she and she had spent nearly ten years in isolation without any male company. Her lack of experiences would have made her a very easy victim for Aegon's skills as seducer. The fact that she became pregnant and was incapable to get rid of it could be another hint. If Aegon didn't want to be nasty he could easily have provided her with the means to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

Another hint that they did not really get along later would be the fact that Daena refused to reveal the name of the father even after Aegon became king a few years later. I mean, Daemon Waters could only have profited from that, as could she herself, so why didn't she do it? Possibly because she figured out what Aegon had done to her, and why he had done it. It may even be that Aegon only acknowledged Daemon as his son after Daena had died - after all, there is no mentioning of her being around at the time when Daemon got Blackfyre, and one wonders whether Aegon waited this long because he feared that Daena would contradict his claim that he was the father of Daemon Waters.

Hell, as far as we know we only have Aegon the Unworthy's word that Daemon Blackfyre is his son. As far as we know Aegon and Daena were neither caught nor observed when they had intercourse, and one really has to ask the question how much Aegon's word is worth in all that (or in general)? I'd not be surprised if Daemon's father was somebody else, and Aegon just had made the boy his son after his mother's early death when he realized that his talents and looks would make him an ideal tool to use against his son, Prince Daeron...