Ashara Dayne's (sinister) role in Robert's Rebellion

[sweetsunray]

6 minutes ago, Hangover of the Morning said:

I agree but it's much easier for one person to hide than a whole company. A lonely Targaryen looking guy my fly under the radar if he puts his hood up but he's immediately much more suspicious if he's in a company of knights (even if they are pretending not to be too) and northern looking girl.

Rhaegar was missing for many months, by that time the tale of Lyanna's abduction and the disappearance of the prince and his Kingsguard would have reached most places. If someone saw a suspicious company weeks/moths before that but didn't think too much of it at that time, they were bound to remember when they hear about the northern girl missing. If anything I'd expect tons of people making false claims of sighting the prince. 

Personally, I think they did not travel all the way from the RL to Dorne overland. They took a ship, perhaps from Saltpans or Maidenpool. So news and suspicions may have been raised say at the Crossroads Inn, and after that it's easy conjecture for Brandon to suppose they went to KL; just as everybody supposed Cat took Tyrion along KR North. They might even have used Cat's trick... letting everyone in the Inn know they headed for KL, and instead traveled for Saltpans or Maidenpool and took a ship all the way to Starfall. What happened to the ship? No idea. Perhaps it was some Braavosi or Lyseni who didn't know who was who anyway.

[Jak Scaletongue]

22 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

This topic just gave me two thoughts about this bigger picture of Lyanna, Brandon, et al.

Someone proposed a theory that Ned figured out the location of ToJ from a combination of information from Ashara and Ethan Glover (who was likely in a cell in KL and then went with Ned to the ToJ). I don't recall who, but it was sound. One piece of info from Ashara and one from Ethan, Ned puts two and two together. Ashara still has agency and can feel guilty.

But more importantly, when and where did Brandon join up with the companions (Glover, Royce, Arryn, and Mallister) he went to KL with? They were not mentioned to have been with him at the duel at Riverrun, but why would Edmure serve as Brandon's squire if Ethan, Brandon's squire, was there? Why were none of the others mentioned? (This is not really good evidence, since it is just a lack of mentioning them, which is not confirmation of their absence.)

This leave opens that they were elsewhere in the Riverlands, but not with Rickard. Perhaps, partying at Harrenhal, only half-watching Lyanna?

The same problem arises, how do we learn about these events in story?

Just a random thought, and not really relevant to the OP but - Edmure could have squired for Brandon (even if Brandon's squire was present) as a sign of respect for his soon-to-be brother-in-law.  And vice versa as well, Brandon allowed Edmure to squire for him as a sign of respect for his soon-to-be brother-in-law.  It seems like something small, but in politics small things can be important!  Especially under the (possible) "Southron Ambition" politics Rickard and Hoster were playing.  Brandon turning down Edmure as a temp squire would do more possible harm to Stark/Tully relations than letting Ethan Glover sit and watch would harm Stark/Glover relations!

5 hours ago, Hangover of the Morning said:

Thanks a lot for reading. I am definitely starting to see sever flaws in my thinking and holes in the theory :-), which is great, because that't the whole point why I put it out there to see, if my ideas, hold water under the scrutiny of other readers. 

Allyria as daughter of Brandon and Ashara is quite tempting, given the SSM and the big age gap between Allyria and the rest of her siblings. However, I just can't shake the feeling that Ashara would have been much less likely to commit suicide, if she had a living child. Obviously, she wouldn't be the first mother who decided to kill herself and leave her kids behind but it makes it slightly less believable. And let's face it I'm a bit weary of hidden bastards and secret identities, so I'd be quite happy if Allyria was exactly who she claims to be. I don't expect her to be anything more than a footnote in the story anyways. 

While I can envision quite a few scenarios as to who told Ned or how did he find out about Tower of Joy, Gerold Hightower is another can of worm. I think your idea about him heading to Starfall is pretty solid and better than anything else we can come up with given the lack of information in the books. 

Neither Barristan's nor Jaime's POV give us much insight into what was happening at court after Lyanna's abduction. I had the impression that Aerys was as much in the dark as the rest of the kingdom regarding Rhaegar's actions but it's possible that he or someone else in the Red Keep maintained contact or had at least a general idea where the Prince and his companions might have headed and why. 

I always find it surprising that Rhaegar's party was never spotted on the way, wether they travelled to Dorne on horses or via a ship. Even if they were able to pass incognito at the moment, you'd think that people would recognise them in retrospect and brag about how the Prince or the Sword of the Morning passed their Inn or bough ale from them. 

Targaryen features are hard to hide and Arthur was also one of  the most recognisable faces of his time, not to mention that he carried Dawn, a sword size of a small teenagers, that you can't simply hide under your cloak. Maybe they only travelled by night and got Oswell to do all the food shopping :-)

On Allyria - I know I'm not the first to point this out (I think I am on this particular thread, but not in general!) but it wasn't uncommon in the past for teenage daughters who got pregnant to have their child raised by their parents as their sibling.  Off the top of my head, I can think of 2 for sure I know personally!  My sister-in-law was a teenager herself when she found out that her "Mom" was Grandma and her oldest "sister" was Mom.  Now, if Ashara did give birth to Allyria but disagreed with her parents choice to pretend that the new baby was Ashara's new sister and Ashara's baby died...if she's depressed post-partum, being treated like a child yourself by your parents after you've just given birth and being told that you don't get the "keep" the baby against your own wishes, then all the other crap goes down (baby-daddy possibly dead, brother dead, your queen and her kids dead) everything just fell apart.  So, if she's already depressed, war goes down and makes everything *worse* than it already was, even with a living child - if she's never going to get to be a "mother" to this child and has been forced into a life of lies by her parents who insist on raising her baby as theirs to "protect" her...I could see that contributing to a suicide decision.  In that scenario, at least she knows baby will be well-cared for and may not have seen any reason to stick around (especially if she's already depressed and her brain is telling her she's useless, she'll be a bad mother, her baby is better off with out her, etc, etc ,etc and all the other horrible things your brain thinks when you're depressed).

[Arrow of the Morning]

17 hours ago, Hangover of the Morning said:

Great analysis. I have never picked up on the similarities between Ivanhoe and ASoIaF. I always liked Rebecca's character much more than Lady Rowena, who was just this typical perfect damsel in distress type of female character. I have never seen the film adaptation, though. 

Ivanhoe is one of George's biggest influences. Rowena really pale in comparison to Rebecca, and it is because she was never fleshed out so much, Rebecca characterization is much better, she is a much strong character. The only thing that bothers me about her character is, Rebecca is too perfect and if she really served as a inspiration for Ashara I doubt George would create character like her, he would give some positive and negative traits. And talking about Rowena, other thing is the love pentagon that was happening in Ivanhoe. Brian loves Rebecca that loved Ivanhoe that loves Rowena that was betrothed with another guy. Probably Ashara was involved in a complex web of love interests with Barristan, Brandon, Ned, Catelyn, Barbrey, Littlefinger and Lysa.