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Hangover of the Morning

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  1. Hangover of the Morning

    Poll: Is Jon Snow the son of a Dayne?

    No
  2. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    I completely agree. I certainly wouldn't mind if there was a hidden meaning to "the most dangerous man in Dorne" but just the fact that Darkstar knows about Arianne's ploy and Myrcella's maiming is justification enough for Doran's words. I too wonder if Darkstar is innocent after all but wasn't he the only one near Myrcella at the crucial time? He also made it clear that he had no qualms about hurting children. Arianne didn't see what happened but good chunk of the people present probably did so not sure how long they could keep up a rouse like that.
  3. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    Not just everything about R+L=J but Ned was secretly married without giving anything away in his POV, Tullys and Arryns are not who they seems to be, the lands beyond the Wall are solely inhabited by presumed-dead Kingsguard knights from Tower of Joy who are giving daily Oscar-worthy performances and the Mormonts owe Bear Island to Hightowers. People's ages, appearances, skills, personalities, motivations, thoughts or actions as described in the books are all wrong (or at best irrelevant) as are all the laws and customs of the land, geography, culture or simple logic.
  4. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    So for the theory to work, you essentially have to disregard everything written in the books and invent your own parallel reality out of thin air.
  5. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    The Wall is full of southerners and Mance lived there good chunk of his life. He may have even travelled around the 7K like Yoren does looking for recruits. There's nothing to indicate that "southern" music is not known in the North and vice versa. Mance knowing "southern songs" is like the most inconsequential "mystery" of the books and really doesn't require him to be secretly a dead Dornish knight to be easily explained. However, the idea that all the Wildlings from all the tribes were fooled by a said Dornish knight would require a massive amount of explanation. Why do they call tormund giantsbane husband of bears. If he is the white bull ( is described as a large thick armed man with a hugewhite beard generally like someone that would be nicknamed the white bull) and they snuck up north through bear island and met married/slept with (whatever) There could only be one large person (and not even Mountain-large just large) among million/s of inhabitants of Westeros? The White Bull was in his sixties when he died. Tormund is considerably younger nearly two decades later. So Jorah and the whole House Hightower is in on the conspiracy too? Who isn't? This really requires some bizarre misreading of the text. Lynesse was 4th or 5th daughter of Lord Hightwoer. Marrying your youngest child to a lord, albeit from a minor House, is a perfectly decent match. Jorah was an anointed knight, hero of the Siege of Pyke and just won a big tourney. Even if we admitted that the match was terrible for Hightowers, it would make million times more sense to explain it simply by "Hightower made a mistake" (for example because his spoiled daughter begged him to) than invent some crazy and completely random crackpot that make no sense on any level and is contradicted by everything in the text. The theory explains nothing and creates millions of other problems that any proponent of the theory refuses to explain.
  6. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    There was every reason to fight. The Kingsguard were protecting Jon. His siblings has just been butchered in the Red Keep so it was obvious that the rebels were serious about wiping down the Targaryen dynasty to the last child. Jon's faith was sealed once his existence is discovered. Even if the KG thought that Ned would never harm his nephew, they knew that the likes of Tywin, Varys or even Robert would. They may have been able to persuade Ned to silence and secrecy but they couldn't expect the same from his men. Everyone can be bought for the right price. The KG's didn't know Ned and couldn't rely on Lyanna's words about him. She hasn't seen her brother for over a year. To be honest, I think even Lyanna was little scared of Ned and wasn't sure if he will protect Jon, thus the "When her brother gave his word, the fear left her". Ned was Robert's best friend and Lyanna was to a degree responsible for their father's and brother's death as well as the whole war.
  7. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    Thanks for writing up the theory. I think I've seen it before but it's just so ... .I don't even know what to say and I have so many questions. Sure, Dawn may be the original Lightbringer but there's still nothing in the text to indicate that Arthur was aware of it or interested in stuff at or beyond the Wall. Pure speculation with zero basis in the text. The only thing that Mance and Arthur have in common is that they are both men and good with a sword. George could have easily mentioned something about Arthur's love for music or anything that would anyway connect him to Mance but he clearly never thought of it. All the other hidden identities (e.g. Barristan, Griff, Abel) are telegraphing that they are in disguise and George sometimes even provides hints to their actual identity. Mance was raised at the Wall and is well known to many people who are still alive. Arthur was a celebrated tourney knight, famous across the realm, who would be instantly recognised by many people, especially the Targ loyalists who ended up at the Wall at the end of the Rebellion. Arthur likely had purple eyes, which would make him even more stand out and people would be asking questions. Arthur can't just appear at the other end of the realm and assume identity of someone else who is well-known there without a hitch. Besides, how is a southern knight able to fool everyone to thinking that he's a commoner and a half-Wildling. Would the wildlings be really fooled by some Dornish knight who never set foot beyond the Wall (or maybe never even been north of the Twins) to think that he's one of them. He wouldn't even be able to communicate with most of them as they have different languages and different way of life. How is Mance uniting all the Wildlings in any way similar to Arthur's dealings with the Kingswood Brotherhood? Swords were involved but that's about it. The parallels are there only if you are desperately seeking them. The idea of a ToJ mega-conspiracy goes against everything we know about Ned Stark. He is constantly plagued by guilt simply by the fact that he has to "lie by omission" about Jon's parentage. He absolutely despises scheming, plotting and lying and would never agree to participate in such elaborate conspiracy. It is quite an expansive theory that suggests that the White Bull, ser Gerold Hightower, is Tormund Giantsbane and that Ser Oswell Whent is Quarran Halfhand. I don't even know where to start. So everyone at and beyond the Wall is a perfect method actor and we are watching some stage play? How utterly unbelievable not to mention uninteresting. Why are they doing it? All for Jon? Because they are just props in his story and not actual human beings with their own goals, desires and agendas?
  8. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    I agree as well. I wonder if there is more to it or George simply introduced Barbrey and her outrage to remind readers about the Tower of Joy and that we should be wondering what happened there and why. I don't know much about the succession laws but shouldn't Barbrey be quite happy that she got to keep he husbands keep and lands and that it didn't go to some Dustin male relative instead?
  9. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    Ned fulfilled his obligation by giving the fallen a proper funeral and informing their kin. If Barbrey really wanted her husband's remains to be taken home, she could have asked Ned. I doubt that he would refuse her. He'd either send a retinue to retrieve Lord Dustin's bones from Dorne (maybe even go himself) or give her the means to send her own men. Unless, it's some sort of a sacrilege to remove once buried body and move it. No idea. I am sure that Ned didn't mind that nobody was going through the remains of the Tower of Joy and making their own deduction as to what happened there but he would not lie if the relatives of the fallen wanted to know the exact location.
  10. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    Ned only travelled with Howland, an infant and possibly a wet nurse when he left ToJ. They may have been wounded and had a good chunk of inhospitable country to cross . They couldn't take eight bodies with them and thus only took Lyanna's and buried the others.
  11. Hangover of the Morning

    Arthur Dayne?

    You will find a handful of posts if you google "Arthur Dayne alive". Arthur seems like a really great guy and a very intriguing character so it's understandable that many readers want to see more of him. I personally don't think that there's more to the theories but wishful thinking. The text explicitly states that Arthur perished at the ToJ with his fellow Kingsguard and five of Ned's men. If some of them are alive, some elaborate conspiracy scheme had to have been engineered by Ned at ToJ (or at least that he agreed on it), which is exactly the opposite of Ned's modus operandi and something he wholeheartedly despises, so I'd say quite unlikely. If anyone survived, it would also take away a bit from the tragedy of Robert's rebellion and Ned's traumatic memory of the ToJ. Mance Rayder and Qhorin Halfhand are the most often cited "Arthurs in disguise". No idea why as all that they have in common with Arthur is that they are good fighters. As if it wasn't the single most desirable skill for men from any culture in Westeros and thus fairly common among those who achieved some fame and/or success. We don't even know if Mance or Qhorin are anywhere near the level of Dayne or just good by Night's watch standards. There's nothing to indicate that Arthur was ever interested in anything happening on or beyond the Wall or that he has even ever been north of the Neck. Mance's history is well-known as he grew up at Castle Black, so he'd be a hard one to impersonate. Qhorin just make no sense if not for nothing else, that because he died few chapters after he was introduced. What would be the point to find out several books later that he was Arthur? Arthur would have as much luck at faking a secret identity as Jaime Lannister (or maybe even Rhaegar). Imaging Jaime faking his death and joining the Watch pretending to be a commoner. Even people who've never met him or heard of him would be wondering why does he look, talk and behave like a noble and where the hell did he learn all these cool sword tricks. Not to mention that the Wall after the Rebellion was probably full of people who were close to the court and thus knew Arthur. There's also a theory that Arthur is hiding with Howland Reed in Greywater Watch because ...? Frankly, I think he would be significantly less cool, if we found out that he's been ~16 years living in a swamp doing nothing .
  12. Hangover of the Morning

    [Spoilers] EP610

    I think Jaime talked about Edmure's son growing up at Casterly Rock not Edmure though I could be wrong. Why was the celebration at the Twins and not at Riverrun? I would think Walder would be itching to move to the Tully seat though he might be too old to travel.
  13. Hangover of the Morning

    [Spoilers] EP610

    Lyanna + Jon Arryn, Jaime Lannister, Jeor Mormont, Jorah Mormont ??? Jokes aside, I agree with your sentiment. It feels as if the "game of thrones" part of the story is largely over and large part of the final two series will be focused on the magical and fantastical aspect of the story. Most of the main characters feel like they have or almost have reached their destination (or we can guess what it will be) and that there are very few surprises left.
  14. Hangover of the Morning

    [Spoilers] EP610

    That bothers me too. The smallfolk loathe Cersei and will even more after she put an end to the peasant uprising, destroyed the sept and murdered the High Sparrow and the crowd's favourite Margaery and Tommen. Dany will once again be seen as the liberator and as a champion of the common people. Cersei has also no means to oppose her as she at best controls the Crownland's and the Westerland's, armies although even the latter one is debatable considering Jaime's reaction to Cersei's crowning. Dany's conquest will be seen as very righteous because she will be removing a corrupt oppressive regime and reinstating peace, which I believe is exactly the opposite of what will happen in the books. There Dany's likely to come after Aegon, at time of relative peace and at time when the Faith and the common folk will be united behind their king. Dany will seek to destroy all that with her army of savages and will finally get a reality check once she sees how unwelcome she is in her homeland.
  15. Hangover of the Morning

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 606?

    8: my second favourite episode this season with The Door taking the crown so far thanks to "hold the door" and lack of Dany's motivational speeches.
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