Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

3sm1r

Why is Jon going back to Dragonstone?

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, falcotron said:

And showing her a wight isn't going to change any of that.

I still disagree. I don't think Cersei believes the AotD is real. I think she thinks it's a plot by Tyrion. She's insane, paranoid, and semi-narcissistic and believes she's the smartest person in any room. She's smart, she just doesn't think ahead - enough steps I mean. She thinks short-term, not the long game. That's her blind spot - she thinks she doesn't need to. If she gets what she wants right now, everything else will magically fall into place the way she wants it to. 

I think the wight will matter to her very much, because she'll be proven wrong on so many levels. It will force her to not only believe they exist, but it will prove Tyrion wasn't lying, and that's another very large pill she'll have to choke down, along with her pride, and thinking she's smarter than she actually is, and Tywin was right about that. She's already been proven wrong about Tyrion & Sansa killing Joffrey when Jamie told her about Olenna. (Lena played that brilliantly.) 

That's going to cause a few more sanity tethers to snap.

It also will force her to alter her strategy because of how much it affects everyone else around her as well - especially Jamie.

Like Dany - you have to see it, to know. Jamie will see the threat to humanity, as will everyone else with a functioning brainstem, except for Cersei, while she will try to see a way to use it to her advantage at the cost of civilization. That will be Jamie's first step away from her because she will be just like Aerys at that point.... and getting worse.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

When Jamie told her Tyrion would have proof of the Army of the Dead, her reaction was one of outright disbelief to the point she almost laughed at him.

They both talk of Dany having "the numbers" they no longer have. 

Then she said, "Dead men, dragons, and Dragon Queens....." almost the same way Tyrion spoke of Grumpkins and Snarks to Jon in Season 1, then spoke about beating any "enemy" like Tywin would have... which I took to mean like the Red Wedding.... not on a battlefield, but more stealthy. 

She never mentioned specifically beating just the Army of the Dead.

Seemed clear to me she thinks Tyrion is lying and it's a trap for her instead, and a stupid one at that, that no adult would ever believe. It's probably why they gave Dany the line on the boat that she wasn't sorry she had gone to save them. She had to "see it to know." Now she "knows." 

Cersei is going to be the same. But Cersei isn't Dany. Cersei only cares for her own survival and power. She'd happily kill everyone in Westeros except Jamie, and be able to sleep even better at night, knowing no one was out to get her anymore, and not care that millions of innocents are dead. Where Dany truly cares about saving and liberating people.

Everything you have just said are excellent reasons for coming to the only reasonable conclusion: trying to get Cersei in their side is at best pointless and at worst counterproductive/outright dangerous  and rather than wasting time trying to do so they should just be figuring out a quick way to dispatch her so she doesn't stand in the way. Like, by torching the Red Keep or using Varys' tunnels to send a few assassins. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

Everything you have just said are excellent reasons for coming to the only reasonable conclusion: trying to get Cersei in their side is at best pointless and at worst counterproductive/outright dangerous  and rather than wasting time trying to do so they should just be figuring out a quick way to dispatch her so she doesn't stand in the way. Like, by torching the Red Keep or using Varys' tunnels to send a few assassins. 

I don't disagree. But not everyone in the show knows what we know. Jamie knows the most, followed by Qyburn, but neither of them know what we know. 

Jamie still has some hope she can see reason if shown. Jamie has no reason to not believe Tyrion. Jamie will have a life changing moment when he sees she has no intention of actually helping in the only fight that matters, but wants to use them somehow to her advantage.

Jamie will get enough of a glimpse of the Monster To Be, that that will be the catalyst to go help humanity... I don't see, or hope for Valonqar Action, until ep 5 at the earliest next season. I want Lena around as long as possible. She's so brilliant. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Jamie will get enough of a glimpse of the Monster To Be, that that will be the catalyst to go help humanity... I don't see, or hope for Valonqar Action, until ep 5 at the earliest next season. I want Lena around as long as possible. She's so brilliant. 

I think the actual catalyst isn't going to be anything Cersei does at the meeting, but what she does next. For example, if she agrees to the joint war against the dead, but then secretly orders Jaime to lead the Golden Company in an attack on Winterfell instead of taking them to Eastwatch, even though she knows that will mean the Wall falls and humanity is likely doomed.

Anyway, if they do that, in my head, I could suture Jaime's S1-4 story to his S8 story and pretend most of what happened in between was a dream he had in the Riverlands about what would happen if he went back to Cersei, and he'll have a great character arc (and probably a similar one to the books, if they ever come out). But I'm a little worried that they might do something like have him break with her over Euron instead, in which case it's hard to imagine a way to retcon Jaime's story into being interesting…

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

I don't disagree. But not everyone in the show knows what we know. Jamie knows the most, followed by Qyburn, but neither of them know what we know. 

Jamie still has some hope she can see reason if shown. Jamie has no reason to not believe Tyrion. Jamie will have a life changing moment when he sees she has no intention of actually helping in the only fight that matters, but wants to use them somehow to her advantage.

Jamie will get enough of a glimpse of the Monster To Be, that that will be the catalyst to go help humanity... I don't see, or hope for Valonqar Action, until ep 5 at the earliest next season. I want Lena around as long as possible. She's so brilliant. 

I agree that Jaime in the show still seems to believe in her (for some reason) but it's not really his decision but Dany's. She doesn't really need a reason to oppose Cersei beyond the fact she is a Lannistr sitting on her throne, but Tyrion, the person on her team who knows best, has also made it very clear that Cersei can't be trusted. Jon would have heard enough from Sansa to double down on that too. And burning of the Great Sept and her high treason seem common knowledge. 

 

If Cersei could actually contribute anything to the fight I would maybe understand them trying but this decision is made literally just after Dany burned the only thing that made Cersei remotely relevant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

If Cersei could actually contribute anything to the fight I would maybe understand them trying but this decision is made literally just after Dany burned the only thing that made Cersei remotely relevant

Yes, thank you, this is my main gripe with the whole "capture a wight" thing, and it's why I criticized Dany for killing the Lannister soldiers and the Tarlys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×