Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kandrax

Why are Rhaenyra and Aegon II considered mad Targs by some readers?

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I have noticed that some readers list these two among the mads.

But, i didn't find any evidence that they are less sane than other Targs.

Edited by Kandrax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Because readers like to throw around the mad word to anyone that does anything remotely cruel, especially the Targs.

Thanks for answer.

I can't remember Rhaenyra doing anything cruel, while Aegon's only act of cruelty is burning his sister, which is tame by standard of the books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Thanks for answer.

I can't remember Rhaenyra doing anything cruel, while Aegon's only act of cruelty is burning his sister, which is tame by standard of the books.

People of KL called Rhaenyra "Maegor with teats" after she took KL and started chopping heads off. That doesn't make her mad though, just cruel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/21/2018 at 1:11 AM, Kandrax said:

I can't remember Rhaenyra doing anything cruel

Well, she demanded a 10-year-old to be tortured, had a knight murdered for saying the obvious truth, bled and terrorized the city specifically noted as loyal to her, gave Ironborn carte blanche to rape and pillage across the Sunset Sea, sent out knights to hunt down little children and those who dared to provide them aid, commanded murder of two teenagers who loyally fought for her cause (one of whom sacrificed his life to save her ass)... Rhaenyra was a cruel person and eventually that cruelty was her end.

On 3/21/2018 at 1:11 AM, Kandrax said:

while Aegon's only act of cruelty is burning his sister

He also fed Gerardys to his dragon.

Neither Aegon nor Rhaenyra was mad though, at least they were not shown as such. Rhaenyra was cruel, stupid and self-absorbed. She wasn't a crazy person. Aegon... was kinda there as a plot device, I guess? He doesn't run around in his finest super villain robes, ordering people loyal to him to be slaughtered like Rhaenyra does, but that hardly gives him depth.

Edited by Myrish Lace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It should be noted that these two are never put in same with Maegor, Aerys, Aegon IV, and even Aerion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If there were mad Targaryens during the Dance, it would have been Daemon and Aemond. They had both sadistic tendencies, overly rash (Daemon more in his youth), and prone to mood swings and illogical, stupid decisions.

Aegon II started as a lazy, self-involved glutton, became a drug-addict, but ended his life being in control again (although he was apparently never in control of his desire for vengeance against his half-sister). Rhaenyra made some bad decisions, and went through same phases of extreme grief, but there is no indication that her sanity was ever shattered or even affected by any of that.

In fact, some of her greatest lines are given to her in the very end, where she seems to be more in control of herself than after Lucerys died.

The bottom-line is that there are essentially no real 'mad Targaryens' during the Dance, at least not when you compare them to the likes of Rhaegel and Aerys II in his last days.

Daemon and Aemond are very much reminiscent of Aerion Brightflame, though. In fact, it pretty much seems that Aemond is a younger version of his uncle Daemon (even the name marks that - the 'd' is just moved from the beginning to the end of that name), although I'd say even the young Daemon was never as stupid as the young Aemond.

One could argue that pretty much all the key players of the royal family (even the biologically unrelated Hightower in-laws) were 'mad' considering that it was utter and complete stupidity to fight such a war.

Aegon III's two sons to qualify as mildly mad, though. Daeron I with his mad desire for conquest, and Baelor with his extreme piety and all the mad/extreme projects that sprang from that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Daeron was mad, just a teenager. Baelor on the other hand was definitely crazy.

Rhaenyra and Aegon were not mad, it's not like anyone who acts strangely or cruelly is a lunatic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Geddus said:

I don't think Daeron was mad, just a teenager. Baelor on the other hand was definitely crazy.

George has implied that these two could both be considered to have been 'mad' - at least in the sense rulers are considered to have been 'mad'. That's usually not a clinical diagnosis but a combination between slanders from enemies as well as extreme tendencies and projects in their politics.

If you talk about 'a mad ruler' you don't care whether he hears voices or shows compulsive behavior, you are talking about his politics. Maegor the Cruel certainly was also 'mad' in that sense, never mind that the man doesn't seem to have been clinically insane (aside from being a sadistic psychopath, of course).

In that sense, Daeron and Baelor both fit the bill, and Aegon the Unworthy and Aerys I, too, the former being an extreme narcissist and the latter extremely obsessed with his scholarly interests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Geddus said:

I meant mad in the clinical sense, like Aerys II.

That would basically only be Rhaegel. Even Aerys II only suffered from some sort of disease that grew worse overtime, and may have never resulted in cruel tendencies and paranoia if Duskendale hadn't happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could be, but whatever the cause after Duskendale Aerys was indeed crazy.

As was Baelor: maybe he wasn't born that way, maybe it was the snake venom, maybe it was something else but he did end up insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

cruel tendencies and paranoia if Duskendale hadn't happened.

Truth to be told, even before Duskendale, Aerys wasn't stranger to cruelty: cutting Ilyn's tongue or executing every member of his paramour family, because of stillborn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kandrax said:

Truth to be told, even before Duskendale, Aerys wasn't stranger to cruelty: cutting Ilyn's tongue or executing every member of his paramour family, because of stillborn.

Those were his mad lapses, though. A temporary loss of sanity he apparently regretted later on (remember his walk of penance, something he did of his own free will, humbling himself nearly as much as Cersei later was against her will).

Aerys II was never a nice person or particularly likable, smart, or impressive, but he didn't have innate sadistic tendencies like so many of his relations (Maelys, Aerion, Aemond, Daemon, Maegor, etc.). He wasn't even a particularly stern king delivering stern sentences to match cruel crimes. Stern men like Viserys II or martial kings like Maekar, Aegon V, or even the Conqueror might not have been kind to offenders and criminals, even if they were not interested in violence as such.

But you simply don't see Aerys II beating up men in the yard or being hell-bent on punishing the average criminal with the full force of the law. We see him sleeping around, humiliating his sister-wife in public, and being an ass to his friends, but we really don't see him being cruel or violent on a deeper level.

Just think of Prince Daemon whipping a servant bloody in the Vale because he received bad news. Or Aemond nearly strangling a messenger at Harrenhal for a similar reason. Not to speak of Maegor's and Aerion's cruel exploits.

Aerys II wasn't like any of those guys - and if you compare Joffrey to Aerys II then Joff is much, much worse. Young Aerys was nothing like Joff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Joffrey to Aerys II th

Tyrion called him Aerys III, i would rather call him Maegor II

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kandrax said:

Tyrion called him Aerys III, i would rather call him Maegor II

Tyrion never knew Aerys II.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Tyrion never knew Aerys II.

I knew that, i was speaking about Joff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

I knew that, i was speaking about Joff.

I know. I just wanted to give an explanation. Tyrion makes Aerys II appear more impressive/evil than he actually was. At least if you take his entire life into account. Joff is already pretty fucked-up as a 12-13-year-old. If he had ruled as long in his own right as Aerys II had he actually had the potential to become much worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×