Adapting ASOIAF For the Screen...

[Antacid]

So everyone agrees the Others need to be at or near the beginning of Ep 1. Good.

As for why the exposition needs to be there early on … as I said, the audience need to know before they meet Robert how he came to be king. In the book that information is given to us on page 25 and it leads in to Cat and Ned talking about Robert’s visit. You say this information could be conveyed via dialogue. How?

Ned: Oh, Cat, Jon was like a father to me after he fostered Robert and me at the Eyrie. And when he raised his banner in revolt against Aerys rather than give us up when Aerys called for our heads…

Except that that’s not all necessary information. All we need to know before Robert arrives is that they were friends, Rob took the throne by force, and Ned helped. Everything else: Jon Arryn’s role, Rhaegar and Aerys, how Rob and Ned met and the way war broke out, can be safely left until Robert and Ned talk. Indeed, I wouldn’t even mention Jon Arryn until that scene – it would be perfectly natural for them to reminisce about him after meeting after so many years, especially with the conversation being mostly about death and the Robellion already.

If episode one is entirely in Winterfell and then episode two is dominated by Dany and Viserys in Pentos it will feel like a completely different show, not to mention be annoying.

Never said that. Don’t think it would be a good idea. I believe you could have Dany I and II in a single episode without her dominating. I'm proposing Ep 2 consist mostly of events up to and at Castle Darry, and Dany's marriage. Even without any Jon and Tyrion it would be an even split - two chapters on each continent. No domination required.

[Tysha]

Except that that’s not all necessary information. All we need to know before Robert arrives is that they were friends, Rob took the throne by force, and Ned helped. Everything else: Jon Arryn’s role, Rhaegar and Aerys, how Rob and Ned met and the way war broke out, can be safely left until Robert and Ned talk. Indeed, I wouldn’t even mention Jon Arryn until that scene – it would be perfectly natural for them to reminisce about him after meeting after so many years, especially with the conversation being mostly about death and the Robellion already.

Go and read page 25 - all I was doing was transcribing into dialogue the exposition that is given to us in thought!

And of course Jon Arryn needs to be mentioned before the scene in the crypt - his death is what prompts Robert's trip to Winterfell, it's the main subject of the letter. I don't think Jon's specific relationship to Ned and Robert needs to be mentioned when we find out he's dead. Ned's reaction to the news will be enough to let us know they were close. Then, down in the crypt, if we want, they can be talking about how they can't believe Jon is dead and Ned could say something about having lost both his father and his second father, perhaps while looking at Rickard's tomb.

Never said that. Don’t think it would be a good idea. I believe you could have Dany I and II in a single episode without her dominating. I'm proposing Ep 2 consist mostly of events up to and at Castle Darry, and Dany's marriage. Even without any Jon and Tyrion it would be an even split - two chapters on each continent. No domination required.

You said a couple of pages back, in reply to MY, "With Dany I more than agree with you: her, her brother, Drogo and her marriage to him are all crucial and demand time, because they all develop in important ways later. I think it would require a whole episode starting with her and ending with her marriage, intercut with events in Westeros." I took that to mean you believed the first Dany episode should be dominated by her. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Regardless I still think it is important to have Dany in episode one. Dany's storyline is so far removed from everything else that I think it is vital that she is introduced in relation to what's going on in Westeros to avoid it feeling like there are two different shows going on at the same time. I also think that, as one of the three main plot threads - along with the war and the Others - she just deserves to be in the first episode. She should be on equal footing with them.

I think it would be a great progression of scenes - first we see Robert, the usurper, bitching about the Targaryens. Then we cut to the reality of the Targaryens today - an unhinged young man and a scared teenage girl. Then we go back to Winterfell with Ned, Robert, Robb, Jon, etc riding through the snow, carefree and happy and utterly oblivious to all the ominous activity going on beyond their borders.

[Ghlade]

My suggestion about the over the shoulder thing was just one tool that would help the audience keep the feeling of the focal character being the focus of the scene. And as writer-producers, they have the power to set a parameter like this on the directors. Most shows that have multiple directrs have parameters on how the show if filmed to create consistancy within the series.

Err. You want the show to be shot over the shoulder of POV characters from the books? Wouldn't this basically mean that we almost never see the faces of the main characters? All this talk about trying to capture the POV structure or elements from the book strike me as increasingly bizzare. As Tysha has said, that will take care of itself because Martin's POV characters are the most necessary and active characters. But the series is a hard enough sell to HBO and to audiences that have never read Martin or even read a fantasy before without making them adjust to all sorts of foreign stylistic and structural choices. The show needs to have a simple, organic feel and an episode needs to be structured not to mirror the structure of that segment of the books but to make the episode as dramatically satisfying as possible within the context of the other twelve.

[Zulofritter]

In film and TV, POV is a screenwriting term that refers to a specific type of shot. That’s it. If you want to talk about the show ‘Peep Show’ (dunno if it’s ever made it across the Atlantic…) you can say that Mark and Jeremy are the POV characters because the entire show is seen through their eyes and we hear their thoughts when we are in their POV. It’s utterly genius but it’s also a rather surreal comedy. It’s not the kind of model we should be looking at for an adaptation of ASOIAF! Any conversations which are filmed in standard shot/reverse shot will dip briefly into POV, but that’s it.

In the book they are POV characters, on screen they are focal, or central, or access, or just main characters. Semantics? Sure. But it’s important. The problems arose in this thread because people wanted to basically re-create the multiple-POV structure of the books with strict definitions between each POV and pretty much no room to manoeuvre. But you can’t re-create it (well, you can but it would look a bit cack), you have to adapt it.

Well, unfortunately, we both know that we're right. :|

To keep this discussion productive, let's accept that we're in different camps, and argue from these positions when the question of POV comes up.

[Zulofritter]

I think it would be a great progression of scenes - first we see Robert, the usurper, bitching about the Targaryens. Then we cut to the reality of the Targaryens today - an unhinged young man and a scared teenage girl. Then we go back to Winterfell with Ned, Robert, Robb, Jon, etc riding through the snow, carefree and happy and utterly oblivious to all the ominous activity going on beyond their borders.

What if we took what we need to know about Ned and Robert's history, and turned it into dialogue between Viserys and Dany? (Or maybe Viserys and whoever else he complains to.) This ties these two to the main story early on, and solves a few problems we're having.

[Arioch]

I was enjoying this thread up until the point where I saw Excalibur give exactly the intro I envisioned...

I also think that everyone is missing the boat on POVs (or if not everyone, the response got swallowed). The POVs are tied to locations, so let's use them that way. Use a transparent map overlaying the action as one scene ends and another begins...give the location and timestamp at the bottom of the screen and zoom the map down. This keeps everything under control for "simultaneous" events and allows for artistic license to reorder chapters (possibly condensing some). Other than characters' internal misinterpretations (which could be handled by dialog/actions) I pretty much take the observed events as accurate, so no naming the POVs is necessary -- they're all effectively 3rd-person omniscient. The only thing naming the POVs does is tell us approximately where the events occur and who gets them wrong

Although for the TOJ Prologue, I'd just say "Somewhere in Dorne", unless GRRM will spill those beans that early for TV.

[Zulofritter]

I was enjoying this thread up until the point where I saw Excalibur give exactly the intro I envisioned...

I also think that everyone is missing the boat on POVs (or if not everyone, the response got swallowed). The POVs are tied to locations, so let's use them that way. Use a transparent map overlaying the action as one scene ends and another begins...give the location and timestamp at the bottom of the screen and zoom the map down. This keeps everything under control for "simultaneous" events and allows for artistic license to reorder chapters (possibly condensing some). Other than characters' internal misinterpretations (which could be handled by dialog/actions) I pretty much take the observed events as accurate, so no naming the POVs is necessary -- they're all effectively 3rd-person omniscient. The only thing naming the POVs does is tell us approximately where the events occur and who gets them wrong

Although for the TOJ Prologue, I'd just say "Somewhere in Dorne", unless GRRM will spill those beans that early for TV.

Sounds like a good compromise. I'd want an exception for flashbacks though. They should be distorted by the person remembering them, particularly if tied to a dream sequence or other craziness. I'd keep maybe 2/3rds of the flashbacks in the book, more if possible.

[PhoenixFlame]

I'm not too keen on the map idea. It takes time, money, and serves little point. The audience will know Winterfell is up north because it's cold. They'll know that King's Landing is far away because Robert and Cersei complain about the trip and the landscape is very different. They'll also know that Dany is far away because the culture is so radically different. Eventually they'll get the picture it's across the sea, if they haven't gotten that implication earlier.

As for scenes that need to be shown or not, some of them can go either way. Someone mentioned the Hound cutting down Micah. Either could work. Seeing him ruthlessly cutting down a boy vs. him laughing as Ned looks on in horror-- they can both be very effective. I always imagined it this way:

Ned, having just killed Lady, is walking around near the gate. He sits down on a rock or something, obviously unhappy at what he has just been forced to do. He barely notices the rain. Suddenly the sound of hooves is heard and a horse comes into his vision. An armored figure throws down something, either into Ned's arms or on the ground beside Ned. The fall causes the cloth to move, revealing the bloody face of Mycah.

Ned: You rode him down.

The figure rips off his helmet and shakes his head to to get off some water that has seeped in. The act is vaguely canine. It is the Hound. He is smiling coldly.

The Hound: He ran. But not fast enough.

At Ned's face, twisted in horror and disgust, the Hound laughs.

Of course seeing him ride down the kid could also be cool.

[Antacid]

The Dany confusion is my bad. I just meant you could split her first two chapters up into several shorter scenes, and start and finish the second episode (2) with her, even though Westeros scenes would still make more than half of the total.

Regardless I still think it is important to have Dany in episode one.

**Dany's storyline is so far removed from everything else that I think it is vital that she is introduced in relation to what's going on in Westeros to avoid it feeling like there are two different shows going on at the same time.

**I also think that, as one of the three main plot threads - along with the war and the Others - she just deserves to be in the first episode. She should be on equal footing with them.

There’s actually two issues here (I’ve **ed them). I agree with you on the first, but not the second, but it occurs to me I’ve never really explained my reasoning. It’s because I think it might be the ONLY workable option...

i) To have a complete story arc in Westeros for episode (1), the episode can't end with Bran's fall. That's the first big twist in the story.

ii) The next place events in Westeros can finish while providing a satisfying ending is Catelyn surviving the assassination attempt. (If you can find an earlier place to stop, that’s great. I can’t).

iii) So we have 138 pages of novel to get through in the first episode - far too much.

iv) So something has to go.

v) Dany seems like the only thing that can be pushed to the next episode, as everything that happens at Winterfell has to happen before the Starks separate.

If you disagree with any of this, say so. The options are:

- Mention the surviving Targs in dialogue in (1) but delay Dany's introduction to the second episode.

- Put all or part of Dany I in (1) just so she can be there, hoping people will still remember who she is by (2) despite all the other character introductions. Reduce the time you have to spend on early character development for the Starks.

- Put both Dany I and II in (1) and sacrifice getting the plot going properly in Westeros.

The first option seems to me like the best. If you push back Dany’s introduction and omit the Robellion montage the episode might go:

Teaser - Prologue

Act 1 climax - Finding the direwolves

Act 2 climax - Bran's fall

Act 3 climax - Catelyn surviving the assasination thanks to Summer.

Resolution - Catelyn heading off with Rodrik aboard ship.

That’s a logical progression with the Act 1 climax clearly linked to the final outcome. It also means that you keep the entire episode focused on a single area (Winterfell), which might help an audience relax into the story. Dany doesn't really fit in to this except as an obligatory inclusion, and like I said – there’re 138 pages of novel to get through.

[Zulofritter]

If you don't end the first episode with Bran's fall, I don't see any solution but to expand the premiere to two hours. With my cuts, the first two episodes were topheavy (85 pages, then 79 pages), and only episode 11 was longer (91 pages).

It is good to keep act structure in mind, but none of the episodes will be very self contained. An event may be at the center of the episode, such as the tourney or Tyrion's trial, but many storylines won't be resolved for some time. With that in mind, I focused more on tone then resolution. Bran's fall doesn't resolve anything, but I think it will make people want to see the next episode, so for me it's the strongest choice.

[Antacid]

I've already said I think that with a fantasy world this complex and with this many characters, the first episode needs to be double-length. I'll be amazed if HBO don't wind up doing that. The first part of a brand new series has to give a taster of the whole, submerse the audience in the world and offer as complete an experience as possible. That is, unless they're going to edit out whole characters and plotlines even from AGOT, like people are suggesting in the "HBO series a definite possiblilty" thread. It's not that unusual a decision even with more cash-strapped productions (Firefly), and it would show that this wasn't a Xena clone, that it required a LOTR-style commitment from the audience.

[Lyanna Stark-Targaryen]

I've already said I think that with a fantasy world this complex and with this many characters, the first episode needs to be double-length.

That's a great idea which I didn't even think of! It allows time to set the story up and really hook the viewers. Love it.

Of course seeing him ride down the kid could also be cool.

Cool? Powerful maybe, but I'm not sure about cool.

[Lady Blackfish]

Wouldn't it be possible to convey expository info from one character "in the know" to another character "out of the know"? That takes care of the "why would they be even talking about it" problem.

BRAN: Why is Father upset?

CATELYN: Jon Arryn raised him as a boy and stood up for him when the Mad King called for his head, and now his death has affected him deeply.

This could happen as she's sending him off to go play, but tells him to stay out of the trees, etc.

[Lyanna Stark-Targaryen]

Wouldn't it be possible to convey expository info from one character "in the know" to another character "out of the know"? That takes care of the "why would they be even talking about it" problem.

BRAN: Why is Father upset?

CATELYN: Jon Arryn raised him as a boy and stood up for him when the Mad King called for his head, and now his death has affected him deeply.

This could happen as she's sending him off to go play, but tells him to stay out of the trees, etc.

While it looks good on paper I'm not sure how well that translates to TV without sounding kind of silly. It seems almost forced. :/

[Seamus Stark]

I think they will need to take a lot of liberties with Dany's story early on. Personally, I think that they can pick up her story later into season 1 rather than right away. By then folks will know the Westeros characters well and they will be intrigued by her story. I think there is always a risk of Lost syndrome with Dany's story. Alot of "What does this have to do with anything?". The book leads to this, and it will only be exacerbated in the filming of it. Since her timeline is largely independent of Westeros events early on (introduction of a certain pair of guards aside), I don't see a large issue with a delayed intro.

[Arioch]

How's this for episode 1 (I'm trying to combine the bes-of-the-best of what's gone on before)?

1) Tower of Joy

Maybe add a little more dialog, but as written it's a good two-minute background plus as much gratuitous swordplay as necessary. I'd add dialog (or footage) for Ned leaving the Tower with Lyanna and a child.

2) The Wall Prologue

a) Start in common room, troops bad-mouthingRoyce" and Aleister calling them down -- this should give a quick overview of the Wall and Beyond Arc. Starting with an outside shot of the Wall (first thing on screen, the audience should already be thinking "That's f*ing big"; noise from a common room; enter with Aleister and Royce; dialog ensues, theRanging ordered.

The stop; Will, Gared, and Royce dialog as per the Prologue. Make sure Gared is recognizable for later.

c) The Encounter;

d) Bran 1

3) Daenry's I -- This should give a good start to her Arc.

4) Cat I -- This should end with the announcement of the King's visit, maybe even showing Robert's train with arriving (but NO dialog)...just suspense for Episode 2 to begin the main GoT Arc.

I'd expand these chapters to make this all of the first episode -- extra backstory, etc., rather than downplay the side Arcs by going into the Main Arc. Ending at Cat I should make the King's arrival seem slightly ominous, and by giving solid starts to the other Arcs, we can leave them alone longer without worrying about people forgetting them.

[PhoenixFlame]

While it looks good on paper I'm not sure how well that translates to TV without sounding kind of silly. It seems almost forced. :/

Agreed. It sounds forced. I'd say just let it happen naturally. The audience is not a group of monkeys.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I actually think the way to introduce Dany into the story is to connect her to the main thread in KL via Jorah Mormont.

I.E., have a discussion in the small council about the need to keep a close eye on the Targs, have a scene after tht meeting where Varys hire Jorah to be a spy, and have Jorah show up in the party at Drogo's house. Dany's objections to Viserys about being sold can easily be moved to during the party.

That would get rid of the sudden jarring introduction of Dany that has no relations to any of the other characters.

I also think you ABOSOLUTELY have to end the first episode with Bran's fall. Otherwise there is simply no reason for the viewer to watch episode 2. The king showing up? Not enough suspense, There is no motivation for a viewer to tune in next week.

Here are the 11 good places for each episode to end,

1 Double episode Bran's Fall (Chap 8)

2 Assasination attempt on Bran (Chapter 14)

3 Dany finds out she's pregnant (Chapter 23)

4 Catelyn seizes Tyrion (Chapter 28)

5 Ned's Injury (Chapte 35)

6 Ned's meeting with Cersei (Chapter 45)

7 LF's Betrayal (Chapter 49)

8 Wight Attack (Chapter 53)

9 Ned's Choice (Chapter 58)

10 Ned's Death (Chapter 65)

11. King in the North/Birth of Dragons (Chapter 72)

[Tysha]

I have to get ready for work so I'm just to very quickly copy and paste what I wrote a couple of pages ago:

Okay, here’s a possible structure for the first episode:

Start off with the ToJ/Robellion-montage prologue as outlined by Excalibur.

Then cut to Ned and his boys, on the way to the execution. The boys wonder aloud why Gared deserted, close-up on Gared’s eyes, short flashback to the prologue of the book, quick cut back to Ice cutting through the air and taking Gared’s head off.

Ned and Bran riding back together, Ned’s line, “That is the only time a man can be brave†ends the scene.

Back at Winterfell, short scene with Ned and Cat in which we discover Jon Arryn is dead and that Robert is on his way. “Damn his royal hide†->

… that same royal hide arriving at Winterfell with his entourage.

Robert and Ned go down to the crypt, see Lyanna’s tomb, Robert bitches about Rhaegar and the Targaryens and off that we go to…

A scared looking thirteen year old girl who is being bullied by a slightly unhinged looking young man named Viserys. He is obviously the kid from the prologue all grown up, which means the girl must be the baby bump.

Cut back to the North. Ned, Robert, Joffrey (because he can make some snarky comments about the wolves), Robb, Jon, Bran, Tommen (Theon can piss off) and possibly Jaime though I’m not sure about that, are all riding through the snow when Robb and Jon find the wolves. I really think Bran needs to be here for this as he is the one who has the strongest connection to the animals.

Then it’s the feast, Jon tells Benjen he wants to join the Night’s Watch, snits off when Ben tells him he’s too young, and meets Tyrion.

Then Ned and Cat need to talk about Jon’s death and Lysa’s suspicions and we should probably have some quick stuff with Arya and Sansa in there as well, otherwise they’re going to get a bit short-changed.

Then it’s Bran’s climb, the twincest, and Jaime’s foray in child defenestration.

Fade back in to Tyrion reading, disturbed by the sound of Summer howling. He finds Joffrey, slaps him about a bit, has breakfast with Jaime and Cersei and gets suspicious about how Bran came to fall.

I think we need to see Ned leaving and we could do that at the same time as Jon saying his goodbyes, then once they’re all gone we have the attack on Bran and end with Catelyn preparing to leave for KL.

That gets Dany in there and it ends with Catelyn leaving. It gets up to page 138, yes, but Daenerys II, the bits with Tyrion and Jon at the Wall and the Eddard chapter preceeding the last Catelyn chapter are all taken out, to be shown in the next episode. And given how much of the remaining pages are exposition and description, I see absolutely no problem with fitting this into an hour.

[Zulofritter]

I actually think the way to introduce Dany into the story is to connect her to the main thread in KL via Jorah Mormont.

I.E., have a discussion in the small council about the need to keep a close eye on the Targs, have a scene after tht meeting where Varys hire Jorah to be a spy, and have Jorah show up in the party at Drogo's house. Dany's objections to Viserys about being sold can easily be moved to during the party.

I like this, but it's pretty far from the source material. A lot of you guys are quick to add scenes absent in the books.

To me, adding this material is like taking the screenplay for Pulp Fiction, adding a scene where Marsellus Wallace throws Tony Rocky Horror off the roof, then adding another scene where Tony gives Mia a foot massage, then another scene where Tony is hired...

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I don't like it when TV shows assume the audience doesn't have any imagination.

That would get rid of the sudden jarring introduction of Dany that has no relations to any of the other characters.

Someone mentioned the Helo plotline in the first season of BSG. HBO has done this too. I didn't see the entire series, but Carnivale had a long plotline with a minister that had no discernable connection to the carnies. If Dany's story is compelling on its own terms, I think the audience will tolerate a delayed connection.

I also think you ABOSOLUTELY have to end the first episode with Bran's fall. Otherwise there is simply no reason for the viewer to watch episode 2. The king showing up? Not enough suspense, There is no motivation for a viewer to tune in next week.

Here are the 11 good places for each episode to end,

1 Double episode Bran's Fall (Chap 8)

2 Assasination attempt on Bran (Chapter 14)

3 Dany finds out she's pregnant (Chapter 23)

4 Catelyn seizes Tyrion (Chapter 28)

5 Ned's Injury (Chapte 35)

6 Ned's meeting with Cersei (Chapter 45)

7 LF's Betrayal (Chapter 49)

8 Wight Attack (Chapter 53)

9 Ned's Choice (Chapter 58)

10 Ned's Death (Chapter 65)

11. King in the North/Birth of Dragons (Chapter 72)

Interesting picks. A double episode with Bran's fall will have room for plenty of exposition, and some left over for random battle scenes. The assassination attempt on Bran doesn't seem like the strongest ending to me; it's weak as a cliffhanger, and the resolution leads straight into a bunch of new conflicts. Maybe there's a way to handle it that I'm not seeing. Ned's Injury is an awesome closer, and I wish I had included it in my list.