Billionaires, making the world a better place (for them)

[Spring Bass]

6 hours ago, Kalbear said:

The Koch brothers, for example, have essentially remade the entire Conservative wing of politics into largely their image.

The Koch Brothers were in the libertarian party until the 1980s, by which time the conservative movement that took over the Republican Party was nearly three decades old and had shown its power. They've played no small part in the 21st century in helping to promote that, but they were piggy-backing on a movement that already was strong and primed to listen to what they were pushing. 

Notably, whenever they deviated from that movement, they had little to show for it. None of their criminal reform stuff got any traction in the Republican Party. 

Money in American politics mostly matters when turnout is low and the candidates are a bunch of relative nobodies who have to get their profile out there (plus it does take some minimum amount of funding just to run a campaign).  That's why it carries more heft in state and local politics than in higher-profile federal elections. 

 

[Altherion]

19 hours ago, felice said:

Certainly.

"The rich aren't above the law" isn't the definition of communism; it's not even compatible with communism, since there wouldn't be any rich people for it to apply to.

It's not about the rich being above the law, it's about who ultimately controls the means of production. In the US, it's extremely rare for the government to do anything about a large corporation even when they openly break the law or are part of the kind of monopolistic cartels that are banned by ancient legislation. In China, the Party can and does expropriate property when the owners behave antisocially (or just fall afoul of the wrong official).

It's true that China is more of a hybrid than a pure Communist economy, but this was the point I was trying to make: if it was possible to get rid of billionaires altogether and still have a country with high productivity and a modern standard of living, somebody would have done it already.

[felice]

2 hours ago, Altherion said:

It's not about the rich being above the law, it's about who ultimately controls the means of production.

The means of production being controlled by an oligarchy isn't communism, however much (China) or little (USA) it polices its membership.

2 hours ago, Altherion said:

if it was possible to get rid of billionaires altogether and still have a country with high productivity and a modern standard of living, somebody would have done it already.

Who? And when exactly was the deadline? Did we just miss it last week? Or would they have done it before the end of the 20th century, or the 19th? Or was the construction of the pyramids for a wealthy elite proof that a more equal society would never be possible?

[Altherion]

17 minutes ago, felice said:

The means of production being controlled by an oligarchy isn't communism, however much (China) or little (USA) it polices its membership.

Actually, pretty much every society (including those that call themselves Communist) has had the means of production controlled by an oligarchy -- the only difference is how much of the oligarchy comes from the government (i.e. how much of it consists of elected officials and the bureaucrats they appoint) and how much comes from elsewhere. It pretty much has to be this way because practically all modern means of production are so complex that controlling a discrete viable set (e.g. a medium sized corporation) is a full-time job.

30 minutes ago, felice said:

Who? And when exactly was the deadline? Did we just miss it last week? Or would they have done it before the end of the 20th century, or the 19th? Or was the construction of the pyramids for a wealthy elite proof that a more equal society would never be possible?

Obviously, it's always possible that somebody will come up with something novel that solves any problem, but if it hasn't happened yet and there is no visible path to it for any one of the large variety of cultures and societies in the world, it's chances aren't good.