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YeniAy_Ottoman

Iron Bank, Stannis and Cersei

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On 3/5/2021 at 1:08 AM, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

The debts belong to the Iron Throne," Tycho declared, "and whosoever sits on that chair must pay them

Debts belong to the Iron Throne.

The Chair must pay them?

“Whosoever sits on that chair must pay them.” Makes me think the Iron Throne is owed payment. Like the Iron Throne is holder/lender. Sitting on the chair is the payment?

On 3/5/2021 at 1:08 AM, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

There. I will sign in mine own blood. That ought to make your masters happy

Masters? 

On 3/5/2021 at 1:08 AM, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

"I hope to have the honor of calling on Your Grace again when you are seated on your Iron Throne."

Hope sounds like a “mayhaps”.

“Honor of calling” makes me think of Lannisters and their honor. Tycho has a Lannister-ish name.

Seated on the Throne and not the chair.

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17 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Masters? 

 

These masters would be Tycho's superiors in the Iron Bank.

 

17 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

The Chair must pay them?

 

NO! Whoever SITS the chair, whoever is king or queen or regent must pay them. Really? Chairs are inanimate objects, for the most part, they don't pay debts.

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6 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

These masters would be Tycho's superiors in the Iron Bank.

Just an unusual word choice. I believe Stanis said masters as an insult. As a Bravosi would take offense at being called a slave or slaver. But it appears to please Tycho. What if it wasn’t an insult but a correct use of the title?

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:
 

NO! Whoever SITS the chair, whoever is king or queen or regent must pay them. Really? Chairs are inanimate objects, for the most part, they don't pay debts.

Haha! :) 

What I was trying to express was the two different words. Throne and chair. It recalls to mind the conversation between Dany and Drogo. The two words are not equal.

The “money” is payed to the Iron Throne.

Whoever sits in the Chair will make payment to the Iron Throne. As the debts belong, that is to say the Throne holds the ownership of what is to be payed.

Tycho and Stanis may be saying the Iron Throne has always been the property of the Iron Bank. Iron Throne, Iron Bank one and the same.

The etymology of debit and credit and double side accounting is interesting.

 

Edited by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe

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Posted (edited)
On 3/14/2021 at 7:42 AM, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

There are still a lot of blank spots about the Braavos side's place in the story, so I can't give clear ideas. But I don't think IB is having a problem with its money supply in general. As far as I know, the main investors of the bank are also the owners of the bank. Even FM can be one of them. They earn money for killing people but what do they with this money? A source for IB? Possible.

Basically the working principle of banks is as you say. After all, they are actually usurers. They make money by selling money. So far everything seems to be going this way ... When Cersei refused to pay the debts; As Jon and Pycell said, they use traditional methods to get their money back.

Probably, when the "other throne candidate" does not hold the plan, they will move to the FM stage, and they will inevitably sit on that throne another king who will pay this money. Tommen probably will die because of revenge by Tyene Sand, and Mycella will diye because of this dept issiue. They have done this for hundreds of years, and people are so afraid of these methods that there have been some people trying to pay their debts by selling their family.

Idk i hope we find out what their financial situation is.

I was reading in the wiki about "keyholders" to the IB "1000s" of Bravosi whose ancestors founded the bank all have a key to it. It started as a place to hold valuables that turned into a bank. Theyd be the backers i guess. I wonder how much they have now.

The known world economy is pretty much done for. So whoever is controlling the currency exchange value of coins and metals aka money changers as they are called in the Bible are going to be screwed too.

Most of the slave trade in the known world just got stopped immediately so that is going to trickle to everywhere even Westeros which has much bigger problems than economic collapse right now.

Is anything known about the relationship between IB and FM???

Both the bank and the religion would be highly influential in Braavos. I wonder do they support each other or does the religion object to the banking practices??

Edited by Ephraim'sFruit
sp

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26 minutes ago, Ephraim'sFruit said:

 

Both the bank and the religion would be highly influential in Braavos. I wonder do they support each other or does the religion object to the banking practices??

Interesting. The Religion uses an iron coin as a symbol of significance. All Brovosi appear to recognize an Iron coin as apart of the Faceless religion. What would  the coin represent to a death cult religion? A life? A death? Is the religion banking these Iron coins?

The Iron Bank will have its due. All men must serve. All men must die. Coins must circulate as currency. Only Gold is an eternal metal.

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On 3/15/2021 at 12:10 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

I've read in World of Ice and Fire and the ASIOAF books that if a prince defaults to a lesser bank, that bank might fail and all that stuff, but if they default to the Iron Bank, that new princes will spring up and take their place. Can the same thing happen for Westeros?

Robert was not a high risk when those loans were made.  He was crowned.  He had an experienced older man in Jon Arryn to run Westeros and his father in law was Lord Tywin.  King Aerys left behind an overflowing treasury to use for collateral.  That is different from someone who wants to rebel asking for a loan.  I don't believe they would have loaned to Robert and Ned at the beginning of the rebellion.  Stannis only got the loan because the bank was desperate to get some of their money back from Cersei.  They saw Stannis as their only alternative who could honor those debts. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Interesting. The Religion uses an iron coin as a symbol of significance. All Brovosi appear to recognize an Iron coin as apart of the Faceless religion. What would  the coin represent to a death cult religion? A life? A death? Is the religion banking these Iron coins?

The Iron Bank will have its due. All men must serve. All men must die. Coins must circulate as currency. Only Gold is an eternal metal.

I completely forgot about the coin wow. This kind of biblical too, the money changers in the temple had the shekel and it was "God's coin" and only it could be used as coin inside the temple. Roman or any other coin had to be exchanged for the shekel. So they could set the exchange value as high as the market could handle. FM coin also seems to be a coin of god, the death god. As only it can pay for FM training. Its not really currency but Its value is so high that apparently any Braavosi has to take you to their temple if you show it to them. 

Now Im even more curious about how FM and IB regard each other. Could FM be deep bank administrators themselves? I dont recall Arya seeing anything like that yet. What makes the Braavosi accept this coin? Is it just fear? Its seems like some people would still tell you to take a hike if the value of the coin is only fear of assassins. Must have deep religious significance as well. Could it somehow be the base currency of IB, the "IB dollar"?? Idk maybe thats far fetched. 

Edited by Ephraim'sFruit
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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Ephraim'sFruit said:

Could it somehow be the base currency of IB, the "IB dollar"?? Idk maybe thats far fetched. 

Iron men 
Iron coin         
Iron price      
Iron Bank    Iron Throne 

I've been thinking of blood. Iron gives us the color red in human blood, hemoglobin.  Some creatures have copper in their blood, Hemocyanins. Hemocyanins appear as the color blue, purple, to an almost black. When copper “rusts” its color turns green and is called rime.
 

We’ve seen black blood, blue worms for guts, people’s faces flush purple, and I want to say green with sick. Could children of the forest have chlorophyll in their blood? Could some characters literally be Iron, Copper, Gold, as they are frequently referenced as?

Edited by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe

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On 3/20/2021 at 6:29 PM, Wisconsin said:

King Aerys left behind an overflowing treasury to use for collateral.

Said money runs out. You don't need a loan when your coffers are flowing  with gold, you need a loan when your coffers are filled dust and cobwebs.

 

On 3/20/2021 at 6:29 PM, Wisconsin said:

I don't believe they would have loaned to Robert and Ned at the beginning of the rebellion.

Why not? The Iron Bank will loan money to just about anybody. The Starks and Baratheons could pay.

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23 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Iron men 
Iron coin         
Iron price      
Iron Bank    Iron Throne 

I've been thinking of blood. Iron gives us the color red in human blood, hemoglobin.  Some creatures have copper in their blood, Hemocyanins. Hemocyanins appear as the color blue, purple, to an almost black. When copper “rusts” its color turns green and is called rime.
 

We’ve seen black blood, blue worms for guts, people’s faces flush purple, and I want to say green with sick. Could children of the forest have chlorophyll in their blood? Could some characters literally be Iron, Copper, Gold, as they are frequently referenced as?

In my head i was like maybe they have this proven magical formula to predict market trends based on assassin activity and how these coin are getting passed around. Death is one of the most stable things there is so a coin based on the God of death could be the most stable dollar in the world, for sure if theres some magical explanation. And IB uses its activity to set exchange rate of currency like 1 Westeros dragon coin = 6 whatever Free City coins. Idk it seems more and more ridiculous as im typing it. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ephraim'sFruit said:

Idk it seems more and more ridiculous as im typing it. 

No thought is ridiculous they all lead somewhere. I’ve been thinking the coins are souls the gods use someway. Just no evidence to cite. Some things have different values. Gold , Copper, Iron, etc.  Like the gods want debts harvested.

Edited by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe

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Posted (edited)

Arya is too ignorant to realize the larger consequences of that murder.  Her family is already partly to blame for the destruction caused by the war of the 5 kings.  This murder will only create further rift between the Iron Bank and Westeros.  Westeros will not get the credit it needs to purchase provisions for the winter. Tycho is the man who he claims to be.  He has already extended credits to the watch and Stannis.  Petyr Baelish will have his grains but his customers will not have the coin to purchase his goods.  I see this leading to war in the Vale.  Petyr Baelish and his hired men will hold out for as long as they can on top of that hill.  They won't hold off hungry men for long though. 

Edited by Finley McLeod

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