House of the Dragon: The Black & Green Trailers

[Lord Varys]

On 3/25/2024 at 2:31 PM, Khloey said:

How could he ever be ruined as long as his brother lives ? He's a Targaryen prince. Everytime he was exiled, he managed to get back into his brother's good graces.

Considering Daemon's fickle personality it should have been rather easy to hand him to rope to hang himself. One way could have been to drive a wedge between him and Rhaenyra by having some young maiden seduce him ... something Nettles may have succeeded at during the Dance without any Green help.

There are also a number of ways to get Viserys to exile him yet again - most noteworthy his marriage to Rhaenyra which was done without royal permission (something that led to Daemon's exile before when he married Laena). No indication that Alicent or the returning Otto tried to play that card. It also strikes one as rather strange that the aging and ailing king could not be persuaded to change the succession in favor of Aegon after the Rhaenyra-Daemon marriage as Rhaenyra was originally named heir to prevent Daemon from gaining royal power.

But the obvious way to get rid of Daemon would have been to kill him. Either by way of poison or by arranging an accident. The man was a dangerous warrior, but even they can be killed.

And killing Daemon and/or Rhaenyra is certainly preferable to plunging the Realm into a civil war by way of a badly planned and poorly executed coup.

On 3/25/2024 at 2:31 PM, Khloey said:

They could have taken the risk of killing Daemon before Visery's death, but it's also a big gamble to take. You gotta be sure your target will effectively get killed, otherwise you face his vengeance. And Viserys could have punished them if he ever found out. Or Rhaenyra herself. I doubt she would have left the murder of her husband go unpunished.

All true ... but we know or have some reason to believe that certain people may have gotten away with arranging the murders of Laenor Velaryon, Harwin and Lyonel Strong. And, of course, the Greens to plot the vilest treason by way of staging a coup. A clandestine murder needs less accomplices than the kind of coup Alicent and Otto plot in the book (and Otto in the show). They/he has to trust his buddies on the council and many other people executing the plans. 

On 3/25/2024 at 2:31 PM, Khloey said:

In the end, taking a shot at Daemon after the King's death and after splitting the realm's loyalties in half was the better option.

That was a mad solution if the prime motivation was to get rid of Daemon whispering in Rhaenyra's ear.

My point remains that you only stage a coup and only crown your own monarch if that is what you want. Self defense by usurpation is a silly scenario. You also get that in the ridiculous arguments defending Renly's attempted power grab as a way motivated by him fearing that the Lannisters would kill him.

Yes, such motives could also play into such actions to a point, either as a lesser motivator or a justification, but you only start a movement or invest all your political capital, power, and money into a bid for a crown if you actually want that (for your pretender). If you are merely afraid for your life or the reduction of your or your family's power and prestige you have other, less suicidal ways to get what you want, political assassination being the main option.

And the idea that in the show setting Alicent, Otto or the Greens in general are motivated by fear of Daemon is simply not actually in the show. None of them ever actually expresses the fear that they will be killed by Daemon, specifically. Otto tries to feed Alicent the idea that Rhaenyra will have to murder Aegon and his brothers to solidify her power, and Alicent also pushes that idea onto Aegon ... but neither ever mentions or talks about Daemon in that context. Instead, we have Rhaenyra being reluctant to go to war/push her claim against Aegon's while Otto actually planned to murder Rhaenyra and her entire family to ensure a smooth succession until Alicent shut that down.

The writers could have played up Alicent genuinely fearing for the lives of her children or Otto fearing for his own in the wake of Rhaenyra marrying Daemon ... but that is not actually in the show. Nor do the characters in-universe care much for the murder of Rhea Royce as an indication that Daemon might continue to murder family members (possibly in part because nobody actually witnessed Rhea's death). Hopefully the writers are smart enough to have the Rhea thing come up in future Vale plot lines, possibly even having the Royces declare for Aegon II to have some smaller battles/campaigns in the Vale which help explain why Jeyne only assembles huge armies at the end of the war.

A big blunder in the writing of the show is that the alleged murder of Laenor doesn't play into the fears and beliefs of Alicent, her children, or other characters. We have Rhaenys and Corlys kind of believing Rhaenyra had their son murdered, but get Vaemond only depicted as a greedy guy obsessed with what he sees his birth right ... when they could have easily enough written him as a man who (also) wanted to avenge his nephew's murder.

A big problem there is the scenario of Laenor's fake death presented as a murder in a context where Rhaenys and Corlys believe Rhaenyra and Daemon murdered their son. They would have never just ignored that but either arranged Rhaenyra's and Daemon's murder in turn (if push came to shove via the Faceless Men) and/or turned Green. The idea that they would 'stay neutral' for a time in such a setting makes little sense.

In that sense the (alleged) death of Laenor should have been an affair that looked very much like an accident with only fringe conspiracy theorists - which would not include Rhaenys and Corlys - believing that foul play was involved. Rhaenyra and Daemon rushing into their wedding without a proper mourning period could have been enough for them to have cooler relations to them ... not to mention the whole Strong boys issue which could also have been a bigger issue for at least one in the couple (not Corlys as he is also proud of his grandsons in the book).

[Frey family reunion]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:51 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Well, I was way off-base about assuming they’d hype Winterfell.

Maybe that’s going to be in the second half of the season, and they don’t have the visual effects finished yet?

Otherwise, I’m with you.  I assumed that they would hype Winterfell and a Targaryen(ish)/Stark(ish) type of relationship.

Edited April 8 by Frey family reunion

[Lord Varys]

On 3/24/2024 at 12:42 PM, Potsk said:

Because the greens have a green field on their banners, and the blacks have the default Targaryen black field.

 

On 3/30/2024 at 1:07 PM, Back in Black-Snow said:

The last Episode is titled The Black Queen. There is that...

Sure, but the book actually gave us the backstory for that, while the show only gave us a backstory for the name of the Green faction. The name of the Blacks is equally significant and as the Targaryen colors are actually red-and-black even the book didn't really make it clear why the faction name was 'Black' rather than 'Red'. Rhaenyra Targaryen dramatically dressed in red-and-black at that anniversary tourney in 111 AC, not only in black. I guess it was a black gown with red embroidery or something along those lines, but that is actually never established in the text.

I imagine there were some lines cut establishing Rhaenyra's faction as the Blacks ... but just naming an episode 'The Black Queen' doesn't establish anything. In fact, it is likely to confuse the audience not knowing the source material as the episode as such gives no significance 'the blackness' of Rhaenyra's queenship. It didn't explain in what sense Rhaenyra was or is a 'Black Queen'.

And I'd also prefer it if Rhaenyra's personal sigil during the war wouldn't be turned into a black dragon or something like that (that is for Daemon Blackfyre). The Targaryen sigil is actually a red dragon, not a black dragon. And George actually had a nice and complex idea with Rhaenyra including her mother's Arryn falcon and Laenor's Velaryon seahorse into her personal sigil. It looks pretty well and season 2 should take the time for Aegon II choosing his golden dragon and Rhaenyra her own personal banner.

But the time to explain/introduce the Blacks as a court faction was season 1, not season 2.