Frey family reunion

I'm not completely convinced that Robert didn't know that Lyanna may have died from a complication of a pregnancy. After all he both lays her death at the feet of Rhaegar, and also blames Rhaegar for raping her hundreds of times. It's not really a reach that Robert believed that Rhaegar may have impregnated her. My take on the rain washing her clean is that Robert may have felt that Rhaegar sullied her through repeated "rapes" and perhaps a conception. After all, we're not talking about the most enlightened culture.

This has been a very, very popular theory for as long as I’ve skimmed this site and it’s predecessor. And obviously GRRM knows that this theory is very popular and considered a done deal by most of his fans. So popular in fact, GRRM’s own wife, Paris, apparently piped up in a convention that Rhaegar being Jon’s dad was too obvious for George.

What I’m suggesting is that Ned’s affirmation was never done in or shared with Winterfell. So Winterfell, and Cat, would be unaware of when Ned made an affirmation that Jon was his son. My thought is the only place Ned would have sworn an oath that Jon was the son of he and Wylla was at Starfall. Which is why Starfall seems privy to the fact that he and Wylla are supposed to be Jon's parents, but Cat apparently never heard the name Wylla. Eddard just shows up at Winterfell with Jon and calls him his son. The other thing to keep in mind, is that technically they don’t celebrate “birth days” in Westeros. They celebrate “name days”. So the only date that Ned may have shared with Winterfell is the day that Jon gained his name.

I feel fairly comfortable with the idea that Jon is older than Robb. I think there is a way to guess when Ned is lying and when he’s not. For example, I think this is an example of Ned lying: So Ned is confronted with a topic he doesn’t want to talk about, but Robert forces him to repeat the lie about Jon’s mother. And Ned responds with “cool courtesy”. My guess is that Ned isn’t really a very good liar, and when he becomes angry or indignant the truth comes out even if it’s not the whole truth. For example: So here Ned is the angriest that Cat has ever seen him. So angry that it frightened her. And in his reply he tells the truth. That Jon is his own blood. He just doesn’t tell her how he’s actually related to Jon. So likewise, Robert finally goes and gets Ned truly angry, because he won’t let the issue go. And I think an angry Ned is probably a truthful Ned: So Ned gets angry and tells Robert that he dishonored himself and he dishonored Cat in the sight of gods and men. But if, Jon isn’t Ned’s son, then this perhaps is a bold faced lie. But I think it unlikely. So the real question may be, what did Ned mean when he said he dishonored himself and Cat in the sight of gods and men? Just like what did Ned mean when he said that Jon was his blood? The phrase in the sight of gods and men is a bit odd. Whether or not the gods would look in on an adulteress situation, it would be fairly odd for Ned to have performed the transgression in the sight of men. Even if Ned just had the privacy of a tent he probably would have cheated on Cat outside the sight of men. But the sight of men and gods is fairly commonly used in oaths, including oaths that have the force of law. So perhaps the dishonor Ned is really referring to is his false affirmation of Jon as his son, which would have probably occurred under oath, in the sight of men and gods. This is perhaps how Ned truly believes that he stained his own honor and Cat’s as well. So if that’s the dishonor that Ned is truly repenting, then the fact that he dishonored himself and Cat by falsely affirming Jon apparently was done while Cat was still pregnant with Robb.

The weird thing about Dany's dob is trying to reconcile Viserys' comments about her being born nine moons after he and the queen fled Dragonstone with Jaime's memory of the last potential time she could have been conceived, when Aerys raped Raehalla while Jon Darry stood guard. In other words some time before everyone left to fight the Battle of the Trident. Of course all that begs the question whether or not Dany is really the child of Aerys and Rhaella. If she's not, then we really have no moorings whatsoever.

Probably didn’t think it would attack a starship. Or maybe he thought it was asleep or something. Who knows. I kind of liked the line where he thanked her and then told her not to touch the buttons on his ship anymore.

I think people like seeing what they want to see. And obviously GRRM is playing up that issue. Ned probably lands in Wyl en route to the tower of joy. And probably every other woman in that region is named Wylla. As for House Manderly, just look at the names: Wyman Manderly (grandpa) Wylis Manderly (father), Wynafryd (sister), Wylla. It’s a family name honoring the Lord of White Harbor.

Considering that this nonsense was concocted by other “middle aged white nerds” I think it’s ok that we weigh in on it. Or does the fact that it was directed by a middle aged Latino nerd disqualify us?

Of course she survives, she has to be around to vote Bran in as King of everything.

Yea, I dunno, I think the “sportscasters” took out the seedy underworld feel of it.

And there has been some work in connecting Tyrion with dragons. He’s awfully interested in them, and has dragon related dreams. We’ve got nothing of the sort with Jon. There’s also a chapter in ACOK where Tyrion is playing “monsters and maidens” with Shae and chasing her through the dragon skulls in the cellar of the Red Keep. There’s an interesting line in there about how Tyrion is out of breath from running into one dragon skull after another. So I think GRRM has laid a bit of ground work in with Tyrion. My own suspicion is that Jon’s story arc has more to do with Siegfried/Sigurd, a famous dragon slayer in Norse mythology, and/or Siegfried’s magic sword Gram, while Tyrion lines up pretty well with the dragon Siegfried slays, the dwarf turned dragon Fafnir. You can also make a pretty good argument that the rebirth in salt/smoke lines up pretty well with Tyrion setting the Blackwater on fire. It was a pretty momentous change in Tyrion’s story arc, born amongst the smoke and salty water of the Blackwater.

When you watch the show it definitely stands out like a sore thumb. I heard one reviewer sum up the problem pretty well. The aesthetic of Tantooine was that in a desert planet everything was going to look washed out a bit because everything was getting sand blasted all the time. The vespas stood out because they were a little too shiny for the planet’s established aesthetics. Personally I thought the pod racers stood out a bit too much as well. You can make an argument that most of the pod racers came from off planet so they weren’t going to look like the tech that was on Tatooine all the time. I think my biggest issue with the pod racing was what a big intergalactic event it was. Up till then I thought that Tatooine was supposed to be a back water planet where nothing ever happened. But here, if they had scuffed up the vespas a little, and made the “mods” a little shabbier it would have blended in a bit better.

Ok, I thought of something that is probably complete BS, but would be really neat if true. So with the caveat that I don’t even really believe this, here goes. I’m sure we all recall that odd chapter in the Sorrows, where the Shy Maid passes under the Bridge of Dreams. It’s where we first see a potential glitch in the matrix. The boat passes under the Bridge of Dreams with no incident. But then somehow, the boat returns to the same point and passes under the Bridge again, and this time Tyrion and company are attacked by the Stone Men. It may be a very significant development because this is the point that Tyrion gets knocked overboard and Connington contracts greyscale diving in to save him. So why the time loop? Was it necessary for this even to have happened so someone or something rewound the event to make sure it did? And if so, has GRRM stealthily put in a similar scenario earlier in the series. Where we viewed an event that was a glitch in the matrix? Since we’re dealing with time, the character I’d be most interested in is Bran. And there is one odd chapter which in fact doesn’t deal with Bran. In fact, oddly enough, it’s a chapter where there is no mention or hint of Bran, even though there probably should be. It’s Jon’s very first POV chapter. When he’s in the Great Hall of Winterfell. Jon is getting very drunk and watching his family and the King’s family proceed through the hall. Well almost all of Jon’s family: So umm, where’s Bran? In fact there is no mention of Bran at all in the chapter. Almost as if he doesn’t exist. And there is one more strange bit about this chapter. In it, Benjen approaches Jon about the idea of Jon joining the Night’s Watch. Benjen then seems to think better of it and basically tells Jon that he’s not ready for that commitment. Yet oddly enough in the very next chapter Luwin tells the Starks that Benjen had approached him and told him about Jon wanting to join the Night’s Watch. Why would Benjen do this if he had already talked himself out of wanting Jon to join? So is it possible that we saw a glitch in the matrix? A chapter stuck in the midst of the story where Bran doesn’t exist, perhaps was written out of the timeline. And perhaps where Jon doesn’t join the Night’s Watch. Which would undoubtably have had a huge change in the direction of our tale.

According to the SSM their birth dates were separated by 8 to 9 months.

I think the Tumbledown tower and the Queenscrown tower are two separate towers. Bran and company stayed in the Tubledown tower while they were still in the Wolf’s Wood. It was basically a vault surrounded by a few remaining stones of the tower. The Queenscrown tower was very much a still standing tower and was in Mountain Clan territory.

Ha, I included that as Boba. It’s all Fett to me.

I think part of the problem is casting. And while I think Temuera Morrison is a fine actor, he just projects very much as being a nice guy. Now granted, I’ve only seen him as Boba Fett, so maybe someone can point me in the direction of one of his other projects which proves me wrong. Disney probably had to cast him because of the part he played in the Attack of the Clones and the fact they’ve used his template in all the Clone Wars animation, but he just isn’t translating very well to bad ass bounty hunter or crime lord. Of course he may merely be responding to the direction he’s given. Disney may very well want him to come off as a nice guy since they typically like their protagonists to be safely benign.

My own knowledge is only cursory. It’s supposed to be one of the more complex tales to understand, with numerous different interpretations over the years. But the dumbed down version is that the Green Knight is a giant dressed all in green. He goes to King Arthur’s court and issues a challenge. He will allow one of the knights to strike him with his axe if they in turn after a year will travel to his land and allow him to return the favor. Sir Gawain takes up the challenge and cuts off the giant’s head with a swing. The Giant then picks up his head and reminds Gawain that he will see him in a year to return the favor. As the year approaches Gawain travels to the Green Knight’s land and spends several nights at a nearby castle where he is met with numerous tests of his honor and chivalry. I think ASOIAF’s first overt reference to the tale occurs with Renly’s death and then later apparent resurrection when Ser Garlan takes up Renly’s green armor and plays the part of King Renly come back to life. While that resurrection was a trick, another character who becomes resurrected in truth is also literally reflected in Renly’s green armor: And like the Green Knight, Cat receives a pretty significant neck wound that should be fatal. Yet, like the Green Knight, Cat rises and returns to challenge the honor of someone who strives to be the perfect knight, Brienne.

While I tend to think that Hunt and Pod are probably still alive, I’m intrigued by what you’ve suggested. (And I’m not sure that the two ideas are mutually exclusive). I’ve long believed that GRRM has created a certain parallel between Lady Stoneheart and the Green Knight of the tale of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Since the primary purpose of the Green Knight was to test the honor of Sir Arthur’s knights, it stands to reason that Lady Stoneheart will serve a similar purpose in the story. My initial assumption was that Jaime was going to play the part of Sir Gawain and Stoneheart was going to give him one more chance to prove himself. But your scenario makes more sense. Brienne is playing the part of Sir Gawain.

Ah yes. That would be interesting. GRRM has set up a type of rivalry between Varys and Qyburn with Qyburn trying to take over Varys spy network. So that would be an interesting twist.

You'll have to remind me about Varys quote. Was it when he and Illyrio were discussing the events in the cellar of the Red Keep?

I vaguely remember a theory that the Freys sent Tywin Rob Stark's head which Qyburn then used to put atop Gregor's body.

I think it's more likely that Bran's vision is giving him a point of view take on the comet as it makes landfall, and this is how Bran's mind interprets the vision.

I think he believes he lied to and somewhat betrayed the trust of his friend because Robert was asking Ned to support and protect Joffrey. Ned knew that his ultimate plan was to support Stannis over Joffrey, and stretched the truth by telling Robert that he would protect his children (i.e. the bastards) as if they were his own.

Sigh. I know for many, this is the only thing that matters. I would humbly suggest that this story is so large and complicated that it doesn’t all revolve around Jon’s parentage.