Any predictions for a TWOW prologue?

[trollrrmartin]

I don't know how much this POV will know themselves, or if they will just be showing us events through an alternative perspective.

Perhaps a slave or servant in Slaver's Bay who has some inside information about the Slaver faction, as they watch Victarion, Barristan, and the dragons attack.

It could also give us a POV of the Battle of Oldtown, especially if Leyton and/or Euron go full wizard.

[FantasyCreature]

On 4/17/2024 at 9:09 PM, Mithras said:

 

Oh, yes, that might happen too. I hadn't thought of the religious uprisings, but it's true, the Riverlands have it worst in almost all the wars. If the Brotherhood joins the Night's Watch, it would be great.

 

On 4/18/2024 at 5:34 AM, Nisachar said:

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The first few hints didn't convince me, but the last few are worth thinking about. Might be it's true after all. But as others say, a swap and even the revelation that Robb has a baby will do nothing but slow down the plot.

[Nisachar]

Well, the first hint (BF vs Jamie) was the clincher. Rest were quoted to buttress my opinion. 

Unless BF knows Bran or Rickon are alive, flying the direwolf on his castle makes no sense. So either he knows one of them is alive or it points to his knowledge of Jeyne’s situation.

With regards to fake Arya Jeyne (no the name isn’t a coincidence), he would know she’s married or about to be married to Ramsay. But neither Arya nor Sansa get any mention in the Jamie chapter, which suggests they weren’t the reason the direwolf banner was still flying.

Given all that, it’s unusual that he’s unwilling to surrender knowing fully well his own lord of Riverrun and of the castle is in danger (never mind the Frey bluff) for a cause that he thinks is still worth fighting for, which raises the question - why does he think so?

The Blackwoods holding out still is just them unwilling to surrender via the Brackens. One Riverland lord hints as much to Jamie that the lord of Raventree will bend the knee to any representative of the crown except the Brackens.

Edited April 29 by Nisachar

[Ring3r]

GRRM has repeatedly hinted that the WoW prologue is going to involve Jeyne Pool...so I have to imagine it'll be from the POV of one of her escorts.  Given the area they're traveling through, Nymeria and the wolf-pack would probably be involved.  I have to assume that's how it's going to kick off - and I suspect the second chapter will be Mercy....which we know from pre-release involves Arya waking up very disoriented from a wolf-dream.

I don't find the competing theory (that the prologues swap between ice and fire each novel) convincing, because of book 4.  The first three books do indeed follow the pattern of ice/fire/ice....but book 4's prologue involves Jaqen/Faceless men, and I simply don't see how you could construe that to involve fire magic.  Book 5 does indeed return to the pattern, with Varamyr/ice....but book 4 broke the pattern.  I think the pattern has just been a coincidence thus far.

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, Ring3r said:

Jaqen/Faceless men, and I simply don't see how you could construe that to involve fire magic. 

Supposedly Jaqen is there looking for the book 'The Death of Dragons', but this isn't really as strong of a link to fire compared to the other prologue.

[Hippocras]

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Supposedly Jaqen is there looking for the book 'The Death of Dragons', but this isn't really as strong of a link to fire compared to the other prologue.

Yes, it is definitely a more ambiguous prologue in terms of category than most of them. But I think it helps if we frame things a bit differently, where instead of ice/fire, it is really more about magic invasion from beyond the Wall, vs. magic invasion from the East. Even if it is not really so much about Fire, the prologue at Oldtown was indeed about foreign elements from the East infiltrating and attempting to interfere in Westeros.

Which brings me back to Sybil Spicer, whose magic, while not being specifically Fire magic, is certainly Essosi in origin.

[Ring3r]

10 hours ago, Hippocras said:

Yes, it is definitely a more ambiguous prologue in terms of category than most of them. But I think it helps if we frame things a bit differently, where instead of ice/fire, it is really more about magic invasion from beyond the Wall, vs. magic invasion from the East. Even if it is not really so much about Fire, the prologue at Oldtown was indeed about foreign elements from the East infiltrating and attempting to interfere in Westeros.

Which brings me back to Sybil Spicer, whose magic, while not being specifically Fire magic, is certainly Essosi in origin.

Possibly.  I have a pet theory about the nature of the conflict between ice and fire...or rather, the lack of conflict.

It's called a Song of ice and fire...not a War of ice and fire.  What if the eventual goal is to unite the forces of Ice and Fire against a common foe?  It looks to me like that's what happened during the original Long Night.  The Others were employed from the West, and a hero with a flaming sword was employed in the East...what if both forces were cooperating against the Bloodstone Emperor?

If the original common foe was the Bloodstone Emperor and his worship of a dark stone from space....perhaps the end-game is defusing the Others and Dany and getting them to cooperate to defeat a new Bloodstone Emperor....who certainly appears to be Euron?  I'm fairly convinced he's going to become the true "big bad."  There's some significant foreshadowing that John is going to need to broker some kind of deal between Ice and Fire (The others and Dany/Dragons.)

Just a pet theory....

[Hippocras]

6 hours ago, Ring3r said:

Possibly.  I have a pet theory about the nature of the conflict between ice and fire...or rather, the lack of conflict.

It's called a Song of ice and fire...not a War of ice and fire.  What if the eventual goal is to unite the forces of Ice and Fire against a common foe?  It looks to me like that's what happened during the original Long Night.  The Others were employed from the West, and a hero with a flaming sword was employed in the East...what if both forces were cooperating against the Bloodstone Emperor?

If the original common foe was the Bloodstone Emperor and his worship of a dark stone from space....perhaps the end-game is defusing the Others and Dany and getting them to cooperate to defeat a new Bloodstone Emperor....who certainly appears to be Euron?  I'm fairly convinced he's going to become the true "big bad."  There's some significant foreshadowing that John is going to need to broker some kind of deal between Ice and Fire (The others and Dany/Dragons.)

Just a pet theory....

I kind of both agree and disagree. I agree this is not all headed to an outright war of Ice vs. Fire.

But when you put Ice together with fire, you get..... melted ice and snuffed fire.

I think this story is ultimately headed towards a rejection of either extreme. GRRM is showing that BOTH ends of the magical spectrum have awful consequences when left unchecked. The Others show us the full zombie horror of the Ice side. Dragons are tempting as a means to fight this overwhelming horror from the North, but dragons and any other kind of blood magic bring their own kinds of horror.

Edited Friday at 06:29 AM by Hippocras

[Castellan]

On 5/9/2024 at 5:33 PM, Ring3r said:

I don't find the competing theory (that the prologues swap between ice and fire each novel) convincing, because of book 4.  The first three books do indeed follow the pattern of ice/fire/ice....but book 4's prologue involves Jaqen/Faceless men, and I simply don't see how you could construe that to involve fire magic.  Book 5 does indeed return to the pattern, with Varamyr/ice....but book 4 broke the pattern.  I think the pattern has just been a coincidence thus far.

In the OP, I said that the prologues alternate Ice and Fire. As a separate point, I said that some sort of arcane power is involved. I did not say they alternated "Ice Magic" and "Fire Magic".

I did this partly because of the 4th involving a faceless man. Also. skin changing is somewhat different from Wights emerging and creating 'zombies'. Its kind of hard to classify the various 'weird 'things from the north of westeros (The Others, their 'zombie' army, Coldhands, greenseers, skin changers) and even though Melisandre preaches a single religion focused on Rhllor, there are things going on like Dany hatching eggs, that are not predicted in her religion (as far as I can remember).

But note the two fire prologues are in fact very similar. And the one in the Citadel begins with the word "Dragons!" They both involve lots of talk among a group of people in Westeros, and some plotting. They are talking about Rhllor and/or fire magic, and about dragons and at the Citadel about Targs. The interest of Marwyn and some of his disciples in happenings in Essos is anathema to the mainstream maesters just as Melisandre is shocking to Cressen. Both prologues end in the sad death of a pathetic POV who felt alone in a crowd and was involved in their own little plot. In both we are hearing news of events in the East but we see we see those things more dramatically in the chapters set in the east  (eg Dany hatching eggs). The prologues so far have focused on Westeros and the reactions of Westerosi, so the "Fire" prologues are somewhat at second hand.

[Ring3r]

9 hours ago, Castellan said:

In the OP, I said that the prologues alternate Ice and Fire. As a separate point, I said that some sort of arcane power is involved. I did not say they alternated "Ice Magic" and "Fire Magic".

I did this partly because of the 4th involving a faceless man. Also. skin changing is somewhat different from Wights emerging and creating 'zombies'. Its kind of hard to classify the various 'weird 'things from the north of westeros (The Others, their 'zombie' army, Coldhands, greenseers, skin changers) and even though Melisandre preaches a single religion focused on Rhllor, there are things going on like Dany hatching eggs, that are not predicted in her religion (as far as I can remember).

But note the two fire prologues are in fact very similar. And the one in the Citadel begins with the word "Dragons!" They both involve lots of talk among a group of people in Westeros, and some plotting. They are talking about Rhllor and/or fire magic, and about dragons and at the Citadel about Targs. The interest of Marwyn and some of his disciples in happenings in Essos is anathema to the mainstream maesters just as Melisandre is shocking to Cressen. Both prologues end in the sad death of a pathetic POV who felt alone in a crowd and was involved in their own little plot. In both we are hearing news of events in the East but we see we see those things more dramatically in the chapters set in the east  (eg Dany hatching eggs). The prologues so far have focused on Westeros and the reactions of Westerosi, so the "Fire" prologues are somewhat at second hand.

I wasn't referring to you specifically, just the fact that there's a theory out there that the prologues alternate between ice and fire.