Daemon Blackfyre II

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

Okay, so I am back shortly after finishing the Dunk and Egg books to make just one short point : Daemon Blackfyre II was kind of done dirty by the story. Like, the dude was an alright dude. Like, you could say he committed treason, but 1. He was told from probably a pretty early age that he was King, and 2. He was misled by a lot of other dudes. However, he is actually fairly naive (kept that way on purpose) but good hearted. Dying in the dungeon, possibly tortured by Bloodraven is just not a great ending for the guy. Like the storyline goes a long way to defend Glendon Ball, but I'd honestly argue that Daemon Blackfyre II is practically as innocent of wrongdoing as Glendon Ball. I don't know, he is not particularly smart, and he is somewhat vain/cocky...but these traits don't translate to his actions. His actions are basically all kind. I don't think there is a single time he doesn't do the morally kind thing in the story. Again, you can argue he is treasonous, but put yourself in his shoes : Is there any other way he could have imagined things? Like if I was told from birth I was King, and that Bloodraven was evil and all that stuff...how would I end up? 

Anyways, I'm not going to kid myself, Daemon is gay, and it is likely there are many homophobes in this fandom, so I won't expect a strong defense of him, and probably some snide insults (the same that I see for Renly Baratheon, strange that the insults are so similar eh, despite the claims that it is has nothing to do with their sexuality from the insulters). But I think the guy was a fine guy. Just kind of groomed to be the loser from the beginning of his life by others. 

[House Cambodia]

I was building up to give a reasoned argument, but then you finished with a gratuitous point about 'gay-bashing', which I don't see as in any way relevant. If that's your pre-emptive strike to anyone disagreeing with you, so be it. I won't return to defend myself.

I was going to say that "Blackfyre" isn't one person - it's an idea. There are plenty of examples in history of a young and innocent person being used by anti-establishment nefarious actors to further their cause. So long as the symbol of their cause lives, so does the idea.

[Alester Florent]

I think the text makes reasonably plain that Daemon II wasn't a bad guy, he was just a bit naive and foolish, and arguably not a strong enough character to play the part that he needed to. He's not a bad guy, but some of the people around him are, and while they'll acknowledge his ostensible authority, it's pretty clear that Gormon Peake et al are really the ones running the show: would that change were he to become king? Seems doubtful.

His movites are sound enough: as you say, he believes he is the rightful king, and he's even attempting to win support on merit by establishing his prowess at arms as his father did, then reveal his identity. He doesn't seem to be fully aware of the shenanigans going on around him to rig the tournament in his favour - again perhaps a mark against him in the kingship stakes, or perhaps he's just doing a very good impression of not noticing.

So overall, I think I agree with your take here, @Lord of Raventree Hall

But good intentions or not, he's dangerous and he has to be taken out. If it's any consolation, he was probably treated relatively well by Bloodraven: obviously he's still going to live out his days in prison in relative isolation, but there isn't a lot of useful information that Daemon can provide that BR can't already get from the other conspirators, so there's not a lot of point in torturing him. And whatever BR's feelings about the Blackfyres generally, he's a pragmatist who knows that it's in his interest to keep Daemon alive, so mistreating him pointlessly would be counterproductive. He probably wasn't kept in the Black Cells, and may even have had an "apartment" in the Red Keep proper, albeit under close guard. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to learn that his death was associated with some kind of plot or escape attempt, though.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On 4/22/2024 at 5:06 PM, House Cambodia said:

I was building up to give a reasoned argument, but then you finished with a gratuitous point about 'gay-bashing', which I don't see as in any way relevant. If that's your pre-emptive strike to anyone disagreeing with you, so be it. I won't return to defend myself.

As long as you aren’t doing any gay bashing, you have nothing to worry about. Being upset about the existence of gay bashing is NOT a way to have a preemptive strike against thise who disagree with you and its sad if you think most people (andbnot a few outliars) do this.