ACOK Reread - Sansa

[Barba]

Sansa I {VII}

Introduced: Lady Tanda Stokeworth* (a lady of the court in King's Landing, Lady of Stokeworth; died from complications of a fractured hip);

Falyse Stokeworth* (Lady Tanda’s elder daughter and heir, wife of Ser Balman Byrch; died during Lord Qyburn's "experiments");

Lollys Stokeworth (daughter of Lady Tanda; after being raped during the uprising in the streets of King’s Landing she marries the ex-mercenary Ser Bronn; later named Lady of Stokeworth by Bronn);

Lady Ermesande Hayford (an infant child; Lady of Hayford Castle; later married to Tyrek Lannister);

Morros Slynt (eldest son and heir of Lord Janos Slynt).

Ser Arys Oakheart escorts Sansa to the tourney on Joffrey’s name day. Ser Arys is the only Kingsguard who objected when Joff commanded him to hit her, and even when he did, he never hit her hard. Sansa also thinks of how Joff never commands the Hound to hit her. When Sansa joins Joff he informs her that Viserys Targaryen is dead. The jousting begins, but it is a pitiful tourney as most of the great knights are off at war or in open treason against Joff. When Ser Dontos Hollard is called to face Lothor Brune, he comes out drunk and half naked. The King commands he be drowned in wine, but Sansa tells him no. She quickly makes up a story that it is a curse to take a man’s life on your name day. Joff doesn’t believe her, but the Hound comes to her rescue, telling Joff, "What a man sows on his name day, he reaps throughout the year." Joff then agrees with Sansa’s suggestion that he make Dontos a fool and spare his life. Joff calls off the tourney in disgust, but he allows Tommen to ride against a quintain. As the prince is jousting, Tyrion and his clansmen arrive in King’s Landing. He gives his condolences to Sansa for the loss of her father, and Sansa offers her apologies for Tyrion being taken captive by her mother. Tyrion responds by saying, "A great many people are sorry for that, and before I am done, some may be a deal sorrier." When Tyrion tells her she is as loyal as a deer surrounded by wolves, Sansa slips and says "lions", but only Tyrion heard her, and gently takes her arm and tells her he intends her no harm.

[Barba]

Couple of thoughts:

Sansa considered Joff a lion through GoT. I remember when she was arguing with her sister, when Arya said that Joff was a stag. Now we have different story. It kinda makes me belive she is starting to wake up from childish dreams.

OTOH, when Tyrion says he is only a little lion, she decides that he is a lion before anything, and that she won't trust him. I wonder if Tyrion was beautiful, what would she think?

[The Adequate Jon]

When Tyrion greets Myrcella, he swings her around in a circle despite having his arm in a sling. Sansa notes that Tyrion is about the same height as Tommen, so he's smaller than Myrcella. Is he capable of swinging Myrcella in a circle with one arm?

When Tyrion greets Joffrey, he says, "I'm sorry for your loss." Joffrey doesn't know what he's talking about until Tyrion reminds him that Robert is dead. Similar to the situation in AFFC where Aunt Genna tells Jaime she is sorry for his loss (Tywin) and Jaime thinks she is talking about his hand.

The end of the chapter is kind of frustrating to read. We know that Tyrion is being sincere with his kind words to Sansa, but she will never trust him because he is a Lannister. I don't think it would be any different if Tyrion was beautiful. I think she started to grow up late in AGOT when Joffrey took her up on the battlement to see her father's head.

[Hedge Knight]

Tyrion always seems to be wronged even though he was good to others. . He was always kind to Sansa, but she could never be kind back to him. Also, Tywin, Joff and Cercei were always mean to him. Catelyn immediately believed Tyrion was behind the attempt on Bran's life. etc.

Jaime was the only person who treated Tyrion well. And Jon Snow liked him and became friends.

But the children loved Tyrion. I was amazed in the re-read that Myrcellsa and Tommen both joyfully ran up to Tyrion and welcomed their uncle warmly and playfully. Perhaps that affection will play a part later.

[loathsome warg]

That would be really interesting if the Tyrion love from Myrcella/Tommen comes into play later on in the series.

This chapter definitely shows Sansa getting a little more gutsy when it comes to Joffrey. She's very vocal in suggesting Joff support Tommen when he wants to joust against the quintain, and especially with the whole episode where she saves Dontos.

On that note, another interesting thing is the way the Hound lies to Joffrey to support Sansa, thus ensuring she isn't punished. Very interesting considering he hates all forms of liars

[Mad Monkey]

Maybe he's not lying. The story that Sansa feeds Joffrey sounds like the same kind of nonsense that Westerosi actually think.

[loathsome warg]

Could be! Just to play along with my argument: Sansa has never heard this saying before. She's pretty well-versed (no pun intended) with the traditions and sayings around Westeros, so it's a little odd that she doesn't recognize it.

Then again, it could be a commoner/southern thing that a highborn girl from the North may have never heard!

[Barba]

On that note, another interesting thing is the way the Hound lies to Joffrey to support Sansa, thus ensuring she isn't punished. Very interesting considering he hates all forms of liars

I think that he mainly hates knights, who swore to help, but mostly don't help or protect weak people. And I think that he wants to be different (deep insie and stuff...)

[Barba]

Sansa (II) {VIII}

First Mentioned: Lord Tytos Lannister* (former Lord of Casterly Rock, father of Lord Tywin, Ser Kevan, Lady Genna Frey, Ser Tygett, and Gerion; grandfather of Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, Lancel, Willem, Martyn Lannister, Ser Cleos Frey, Tion Frey, Tyrek Lannister, and Joy Hill; a man cut from a different cloth than his first-born son, as he was very lenient with his lords and ladies bannermen).

Legends: Florian the Fool (legendary fool who was the greatest knight of all, champion of Jonquil);

Jonquil (legendary lady love of Florian).

Sansa had found a note under her pillow telling her to come to the godswood that night if she wanted to go home. Mistrustful of who left it, Sansa eventually decides to go when she hears a commotion at the gate to the Red Keep. She slips unseen to the godswood, and there meets Ser Dontos. Hoping it would be a true knight come to rescue her, she is disappointed by the appearance of the old drunk fool. He deftly makes Sansa think of the legend of Florian and Jonquil, her favorite story. Now trusting Dontos, he promises to rescue her from the city when the time is right. After leaving the godswood, she runs into the Hound, who is drunk. Clegane tells her she looks like a woman, and asks her to sing to him, but then forgets he asked. He escorts her back to her room, and finds out from Ser Boros that a mob came to the gates seeking food from Tyrek’s wedding feast. Sansa asks him why he lets people call him ‘dog’, and he tells her of how his grandfather was kennelmaster at Casterly Rock and saved Lord Tytos Lannister’s life. Lord Tytos raised the Cleganes to lords from then on, and thus his brother Ser Gregor was a lord. The Hound leaves by telling her he will hear a song from her eventually.

[The Adequate Jon]

You just know that Littlefinger told Dontos to bring up the whole Florian and Jonquil thing in order to gain Sansa's trust. The comparisons and contrasts between Dontos and the Hound are interesting. Both are drunk in this chapter. Both help Sansa. Dontos is a knight who really doesn't deserve to be one while the Hound deserves to be a knight but is not. Sansa starts thinking of Dontos as her hero, but she would do better to think of the Hound as her hero.

[Barba]

You just know that Littlefinger told Dontos to bring up the whole Florian and Jonquil thing in order to gain Sansa's trust.

Not just that. I'm sure he arranged all that kneeling thing, and you-saved-me... Dontos doesn't seem smart enough to figure that on his own

The comparisons and contrasts between Dontos and the Hound are interesting. Both are drunk in this chapter. Both help Sansa. Dontos is a knight who really doesn't deserve to be one while the Hound deserves to be a knight but is not. Sansa starts thinking of Dontos as her hero, but she would do better to think of the Hound as her hero.

Nice observation.

[Barba]

Sansa (III) {IX}

Introduced: Maester Frenken (maester of House Stokeworth).

First Mentioned: Ser Rupert Brax* (brother of the late Lord Andros Brax, uncle of the current Lord Tytos Brax, Ser Robert, and Ser Flement; kiled at Oxcross);

Ser Lymond Vikary (knight sworn to Casterly Rock, held captive after the battle of Oxcross, current status unknown).

Sansa is escorted by the Hound before Joffrey, who berates her for her brother’s actions. The king has just learned that Robb’s men, and supposedly an army of wargs, fell upon Ser Stafford Lannister’s new army not three days ride from Lannisport, routing the army and killing Ser Stafford. Joff threatens to shoot her with his crossbow, but was told by his mother that if he kills her, they’ll kill his uncle Jaime in retaliation. But Joff will have her punished, and commands the Hound to beat her. Ser Dontos tries to prevent this by beating her with a melon, but Joff is not amused. He has Ser Boros and Ser Meryn beat her severely, and even when Sandor yells "Enough", Joff has them tear her clothes off. However, Tyrion arrives, his voice cracking like a whip, "What is the meaning of this?" Tyrion mocks Ser Boros for his notion of chivalry, and when the two Kingsguard begin to draw their swords, Bronn tells them to be careful. The Hound gives Sansa his cloak to cover up her nakedness. Tyrion berates his nephew for his actions, and when Ser Boros warns him not to threaten the king, Tyrion replies, "Bronn, Timett, the next time Ser Boros opens his mouth, kill him. Now that was a threat, ser."

Tyrion continues to berate Joff, telling him brutality to his subjects will lead to his undoing. Tyrion and his men take Sansa to the Tower of the Hand. Tyrion details the truth of her brother's actions at Oxcross, how his direwolf caused the horses to go wild and how his men killed Ser Stafford, Ser Rupert Brax, Ser Lymond Vikary, Lord Roland Crakehall and Lord Antario Jast (the last three are actually alive but captives). When Sansa asks about the wargs and sorcery, Tyrion snorts, "Sorcery is the sauce fools spoon over failure to hide the flavor of their own incompetence." Tyrion offers that if it is any solace, he does not intend for her to wed Joffrey, realizing that nothing can ever reconcile Stark and Lannister. Sansa is hopeful that Tyrion means what he says, and when Tyrion suggests she wants to be as far from the Lannisters as possible, he smiles and tells her that as a child, he wished for the same thing.

[The Adequate Jon]

Tyrion is doing in this chapter exactly what Tywin told him to do - get Joffrey under control. Does Tywin ever bring this up during Tyrion's trial? No. All of the so-called threats Tyrion used toward Joffrey are used against him in his trial.

Once again, the Hound is acting the most "knightly" in this chapter.

[Ealasaid]

Tyrion is doing in this chapter exactly what Tywin told him to do - get Joffrey under control. Does Tywin ever bring this up during Tyrion's trial? No. All of the so-called threats Tyrion used toward Joffrey are used against him in his trial.

Once again, the Hound is acting the most "knightly" in this chapter.

I have wondered why Tywin sent Tyrion to act as Hand. All he does is berate Tyrion. Why didn't he send Kevan Lannister instead? I, too, was infuriated when Tywin and others used Tyrions's actions as a good Hand against him. He hardly ever gets a break.

[A wilding]

To be fair to Tywin, he was a judge in Tyrion's trial and played no active role in it. We will never know whether he believed in Tyrion's guilt or exactly what he planned to do, but Kevan appears to truly believe that he was genuinely trying to avoid Tyrion's execution by having him sent to the Wall instead. I found it significant that when Shae made Tyrion look ridiculous at the trial, the only person not laughing at Tyrion was Tywin.

I think Tywin sent Tyrion rather than Kevan to KL at the end of AGoT because Kevan is a follower unsuited to independent command or political maneuvering. We see this in Tyrion sidelining Cersei in ACoK, while in AFfC Kevan allows her to sideline him.

[Ealasaid]

To be fair to Tywin, he was a judge in Tyrion's trial and played no active role in it. We will never know whether he believed in Tyrion's guilt or exactly what he planned to do, but Kevan appears to truly believe that he was genuinely trying to avoid Tyrion's execution by having him sent to the Wall instead. I found it significant that when Shae made Tyrion look ridiculous at the trial, the only person not laughing at Tyrion was Tywin.

I think Tywin sent Tyrion rather than Kevan to KL at the end of AGoT because Kevan is a follower unsuited to independent command or political maneuvering. We see this in Tyrion sidelining Cersei in ACoK, while in AFfC Kevan allows her to sideline him.

I thought Kevan nailed both Cersei and Jaime pretty well -- he knew who the parents of Tommen and the others were. And he had Cersei in a vice - she wanted him as Hand and he wouldn't unless she left KL. I think he's stronger than we have given him credit.

[A wilding]

I agree Kevan has many fine qualities (and personally I like him because he is somewhat like me).

However in AFfC Kevan tried to deal with Cersei in a constructive open adult manner. He suggested workable scenarios to her. But when she did not listen, got angry, and pulled her rank as regent on him, he submitted to being sidelined and quietly went off to sulk. Dropped into the maelstrom of KL with Cersei, Joffrey, Varys and Littlefinger at the start of ACoK, I find it difficult to imagine him acquitting himself well.

[Kingslayer]

Lord Tywin didn't send Kevan because he was his most valued companion and advisor; he relied on him. It's easy to underestimate Ser Kevan, but I think he was more actively involved in matters than anyone knew.

[Brother Wolf]

I have wondered why Tywin sent Tyrion to act as Hand. All he does is berate Tyrion. Why didn't he send Kevan Lannister instead? I, too, was infuriated when Tywin and others used Tyrions's actions as a good Hand against him. He hardly ever gets a break.

Tough love?

Seriously, I often wonder if Tywin, like Genna expresses in ASOS, understands that of his 3 children, Tyrion is most like him in terms of political acumen. That might explain why Tywin sent Tyrion to be Hand in his stead. Could he also have gained same measure of respect for Tyrion that he survived the battle?

Then again, it could just be that he wants to be rid of Tyrion and figures he'll be so hated in KL that the mob will eventually get him (and on a more devious level, perhaps Tywin thinks Tyrion will screw everything up so that Tywin is hailed the savior of KL when he does show up...which, in a way, is what happened).

[Ealasaid]

Tough love?

Seriously, I often wonder if Tywin, like Genna expresses in ASOS, understands that of his 3 children, Tyrion is most like him in terms of political acumen. That might explain why Tywin sent Tyrion to be Hand in his stead. Could he also have gained same measure of respect for Tyrion that he survived the battle?

Then again, it could just be that he wants to be rid of Tyrion and figures he'll be so hated in KL that the mob will eventually get him (and on a more devious level, perhaps Tywin thinks Tyrion will screw everything up so that Tywin is hailed the savior of KL when he does show up...which, in a way, is what happened).

I agree that Tywin realizes Tryion's mind works like his -- Tyrion can be ruthless when needed -- and someone needed to take a firm hand (no pun intended) in KL. Jaime may be the Golden Man Tywin wanted as heir, but imagine Jaime with Tyrion's wit and knowledge.

I loathe Tywin for not giving Tyrion credit.